Saying "The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a Christian" is...

[Boojatta]

Poll question: Saying "The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a Christian" is...

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. About as ridiculous as saying "Evan W. Bayh is a Democrat"

:shrug:

[MADem]

24. But he IS a Democrat. He may not be your "speed" of Democrat, but he is one.

His name appears on the ballot and in the Senate with a (D) beside it. He is endorsed by the National Committee.

He gets money for reelections from the DNC coffers.

Other Democrats help him raise money--watch Obama help him soon enough. That will probably be a huge payday for him.

He's a CONSERVATIVE Democrat. You, plainly, are not that flavor. But he's a Democrat, just like other conservatives like Jack Murtha and Jim Webb are also Democrats.

Your assertion isn't accurate and doesn't fly.

[Occam Bandage]

2. Slightly defensible but mostly inaccurate.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Saying "The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)" is offensive to anyone who values human rights and dignity

[Boojatta]

10. To say "The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)" isn't really to assert anything.

It's a conventional form of expression representing simply a noun phrase. For it to be an assertion, a verb would be required. The "be" in "peace be upon him" doesn't count as a verb here because it's part of a fixed expression not chosen by the writer or speaker who uses the fixed, conventional noun phrase.

Would you say that referring to the current Pope using some of the Pope's official honorific titles is offensive to anyone who values human rights and dignity?

[Chulanowa]

13. So you're offended by the existence of Muslims, who do not value human rights and dignity

I would say enjoy your stay at DU, but apparently the mods here like the scent this sort of shit gives off.

[jobycom]

18. Could you clarify? Is this an attack on Muslims or on all religious belief in general, or what?

I can read it as saying that Islam is opposed to human rights and dignity (a false statement, but the kind you see amongst the ignorant), or that "pbuh" is offensive because you don't want peace to be upon him, or that respecting a religion by using their conventions (pbuh) is offensive, or several combinations and variations of those possibilities. But all of those are offensive and probably rules violations, so I'm assuming you don't mean them.

Help me out. What were trying to say?

[Occam Bandage]

32. So...you find Muslims and those who respect their faith offensive to human dignity?

I do not find that a very coherent position.

[Taverner]

4. The correct answer: a non-sequitor

[Goblinmonger]

6. Too bad you can't auto-reply with this

to all the OP's polls.

[Boojatta]

11. A good practice is to read messages and not rely purely on the name of the author.

[Boojatta]

7. Shouldn't you wait until you see an allegation that some conclusion follows from some assumptions...

before making the accusation that something is a non sequitur?

[Taverner]

8. A direct translation from Latin of "non-sequitor" means does not follow

The OP is a statement that does not follow...

IT would be like me saying "Dick Cheney is a reincarnation of Zoaster"

[Boojatta]

12. From what doesn't the OP follow?

[jobycom]

15. That's not right. You are describing a false statement, not a non sequitur.

It's frequently misused, like "paradox," or "disingenuous," but it's true meaning as a literary or grammatical phrase is a statement that does not have a connection to the statements or arguments it follows. It's not a contradiction in terms (which is the way a lot of people use it), it is a separate statement that is confusing or illogical compared to previous statements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(absurdism)
http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur

It's frequently misunderstood, and often not worth correcting because it's just too difficult to explain and people usually fight you over it, anyway. But that's what the phrase means.

[Shipwack]

17. I like paste! nt

[jobycom]

19. That wouldn't be one, either.

The statement which "does not follow" has to make some attempt to follow for it to be a non sequitur.

[Jackpine Radical]

22. I'm trying to figure out

why the fuck I've read this far in this thread.

[Goblinmonger]

5. Wrong

:shrug:

[jobycom]

9. A complex statement that could be offensive or could be a rhetorical point to emphasize

any number of legitimate historical or theological points about the role of Christ in Islam. It depends on who is saying it and why.

As one example of how it could be said in a non-derogatory statement: In Islam, Christ is the Word of God, but his message was subverted by his followers. Thus, one could theologically argue that Muslims are the true recipients of Jesus's message, making them "true Christians," or the true believers in Christ's message, as opposed to those who identify themselves as Christians in the world today. (I'm not making that argument. I'm using it as an example of how a Muslim could make the statement in the OP without meaning anything derogatory towards the Prophet by it.)

So without context, I can't vote, in other words.

[Chulanowa]

14. ...Historically inaccurate.

He was Jewish, then started his own thing based on that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. That's something I've wondered about.

Obviously he was of some Abrahamic religion, but I didn't know which one.

[MADem]

23. Jesus, Muslims didn't EXIST when Jesus walked the earth!!!

Muhamad came along much, much later.

The absence of any appreciation of historical timelines in these discussions is a bit mind-blowing.

[Chulanowa]

27. Most non-nomadic people in Arabia were Jewish

While most of the nomadic ones were some variety of polytheistic. Mohammed was a merchant, so odds are, he was Jewish. That the religion he founded has so many similarities to Judiasm, filtered through an Arab cultural lens, kinda strengthens this.

But really for all we know, he coulda been the world's first scientologist. Aside from historical curiosity, I suppose it doesn't matter much.

[On the Road]

20. Depending on What is Meant by a Muslim,

it could be a mostly accurate statement. The form of Christianity which Mohammed was familiar with did not believe in the divinity of Jesus. I am not sure that Jesus believed in his own divinity, for that matter. So Jesus and Mohammed were probably not as philosophically far apart in their lifetimes as we would think. If Jesus had attained some sort of political or social power, the resemblence would have been even closer.

[MADem]

21. Huh...? ..."legitimate claim that Jesus was a Muslim?" No, he was a Jew.

Silly poll, really. Not full-on flame, but a bit "flamish." Certainly a popcorn popper for those who get exorcised over these things.

Muhamad was, if anything, probably an idol worshipper before he, according to the legends of his faith, had his epiphanies (to include celestial horseback riding all the way to Jerusalem) and became the prophet for a religion now known as Islam. That's what a lot of people in his neck of the woods were back then.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. ...about as accurate as saying Jesus was a Christian.

Muhammad was strongly influenced by both Christianity and Judaism and may or may not have belonged to one of the many middle-eastern Christian sects, which changed under his influence to become Islam.

Or not.

[ZombieHorde]

26. An insult to Muslims.

Similar to South Park's insult to Christians when they made the Christian God a Buddhist.

[saltpoint]

28. It seems unlikely that Muhammad would have identified with the

early Christian Church and less likely still that contemporary believers of either tradition would feel the identifiers are interchangeable.

There's a wide spectrum of theft and distortion in both traditions. Contemporary practice of a faith right now right here is likely to be startlingly different than the same tradition far ago, or even different from someone else practicing it across town this afternoon.

Jesus may well have believed that the known temporal world would come to a halt "soon." Almost certainly he did not intend to "found a religion," especially one that would wind up sanctioning nitwits like Jim Dobson and Jerry Falwell.

The figures who inspire a religious tradition may never have envisioned a tradition at all, or may have held an entirely different intent.

[Meshuga]

29. Jesus was a Jew

You know, he lived at home until he was 30, he went into his father's business, and his mother thought he was God.

[Crunchy Frog]

30. And he thought his mother was a virgin.

[Neo Atheist]

31. meaningless, Mohammed (idioticbullshit) never existed

You can ascribe whatever the hell you want to people who are simply mythological figures. I say Zeus was actually a biologist! Prove me wrong!

[Occam Bandage]

33. Wait, what? Seriously, what? There are like hundreds of contemporary texts mentioning him.

He wasn't just a prophet; he was a conquering general and theocrat. Saying "he didn't exist" is about as crazy as saying "Julius Caesar didn't exist."