Hillary Clinton leaves flowers for Our Lady of Guadalupe, asks ‘Who painted it?’

[AlphaCentauri]

During her recent visit to Mexico, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made an unexpected stop at the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe and left a bouquet of white flowers “on behalf of the American people,” after asking who painted the famous image.

The image of Our Lady of Guadalupe was miraculously imprinted by Mary on the tilma, or cloak, of St. Juan Diego in 1531. The image has numerous unexplainable phenomena, such as the appearance on Mary’s eyes of those present in the room when the tilma was opened and the image’s lack of decay.

Mrs. Clinton was received on Thursday at 8:15 a.m. by the rector of the Basilica, Msgr. Diego Monroy.

Msgr. Monroy took Mrs. Clinton to the famous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which had been previously lowered from its usual altar for the occasion.

After observing it for a while, Mrs. Clinton asked “who painted it?” to which Msgr. Monroy responded “God!”

http://catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15511

[EFerrari]

1. LOL

Now I have to go say some Hail Marys.

[AlphaCentauri]

25. that deserve to chant a complete rosary

:D

[charlie]

2. Wow, that's really amazing

So... who painted it? :D

[ProHeloPilot]

3. Oh Lord, another "Reset Moment"?

It's getting worse...

[MADem]

4. Huh? She's not a Catholic--she doesn't need to be versed in RC fantasies.

What's "getting worse?"

Sure you haven't autorotated to the wrong landing pad, sport? Sure sounds that way.

[stopbush]

12. Agreed. The RCs probably have a good idea who painted it,

and his name wasn't god. Jesús, perhaps, but not god.

[Bobbieo]

13. They still can't wait to get at her. Thought this anti-Clinton stuff ended with the election.

[EFerrari]

26. Calm down! It's just a funny mistake, that's all.

She went there with an offering and some dummy forgot to tell her the offering was to a miracle, aka, the reason she was going there.

I myself love seeing Hillary Clinton representing us. We haven't had such a popular or skilled Secretary of State since? No one I can remember. :)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Strong Atheist]

20. Wow! Do not think I have ever seen you in this forum. It is not like the lounge,

here...

:hide:

[walkaway]

19. Maybe she thought she was asking someone who believed in reality

and not some old man who believes that ghosts can paint. Next thing you know, she'll be asking why the catholic pope would be so stupid as to blame condoms for the spread of aids.

[Mojambo]

5. That's great! n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

6. A Bush moment for Hillary

At least this is news. We don't expect that from Mrs. Clinton.

[marketcrazy1]

8. thats embarrassing

it took me less than 30 seconds to research the image in question, now she IS a busy person but SOMEONE on her staff should have briefed her on this site and the image. this is a sad reflection on America. IMO.....

[Warpy]

38. It's a sad reflection on her staff

I wouldn't expect a Protestant from the US to know that stuff, but someone on her staff should have looked it up and clued her in.

I do hope she's had words with them.

[DonCoquixote]

9. Er.

She might not need to BELIEVE in Roman catholic faith, but considering that image is almost a default symbol of Mexico, she could at least read her Wikipedia before going to Mexico, especially since it is really a revamped symbol for Coatlicue (aka the Aztec answer to Hera.)

[rocktivity]

10. I'm not a Catholic, and even I know that story...

rocktivity

[Autumn]

11. I was raised Catholic and I still wonder

“who painted it?” Cause I sure as hell never thought God did. :rofl: I wonder if he made the pewter statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe I have on my shelf?

[DonCoquixote]

14. As much as people wish otherwise

Culture and Religion are not separate, especially in Latin America, where even Chavez brags about being a Catholic. This symbol is very much a symbol of Mexico that transcends religion; see the way die hard Communists like Frida Khalo, Diego Rivera, and David Alfaro Siqueros all revered the symbol. This was STUPID.

[murielm99]

15. I like Clinton, but this WAS stupid.

This is embarrassing for someone as well-traveled as Mrs. Clinton.

She needs to have a sit-down with her staff and make sure they brief her thoroughly about the places she is going to visit. Even if she has the info already, a review couldn't hurt.

She should also apologize to those who were offended by this remark.

[johnnydrama]

16. how do you think that briefing would go?

Just curious.

Nothing about what the people around their believe is actual fact, so do we want her to be briefed about this image appearing out of nowhere?

[murielm99]

17. She should have known the story, whether or not it is factual.

The story about the image is fairly well-known.

What if she went to Ireland and said, "Leprechauns? What are leprechauns?"

[Jim__]

18. If she went to Ireland and asked, "What are leprechauns?"

I'm sure someone would explain it to her ... in exquisite and colorful detail.

[Enrique]

30. she could also ask her hosts questions

let them educate her. People in general like doing that, and they know that diplomats from the U.S. or any country can't be an expert on their culture. We know that about foreigners travelling here don't we? Are we "offended" when diplomats don't know something about America?

[Enrique]

29. still, the question remains

who painted it?

It's a good question, not stupid at all. I want to know too.

[moobu2]

21. She should have known it was an old catholic trick to get local converts

maybe she did. When the dude said "god!" maybe Hillary winked and gave him the “I gotcha” elbow.

[AlphaCentauri]

24. that was a good trick, now we know that Jesus wasn't a white european but aztec

with an aztec mother

[Silent3]

22. I expected to see something like a stain on a wall...

...something with all of the vivid detail of a Virgin Mary on a piece of toast, when I clicked on the story link.

But this?



According to the Wikipedia article the miraculous image of legend was supposed to have "appeared miraculously on the back of a simple peasant cloak", but the painting you see above is a representation of the original apparation. So, even if you buy into the local legend, I don't think the local legend is trying to pass off the above painting as something that occurred miraculously. That should make asking who painted the painting a perfectly polite question.

If the priest who answered "God" thinks the image above, not just whatever original apparition supposedly appeared on some peasant's cloak, was completely deity-generated from scratch, it sounds like he's the one who either doesn't know the local legend, he's taking the local legend a fantastical step further, or maybe he was taking a bit of poetic license to talk about the inspiration for the image.

[moobu2]

23. Could have been a typical Virgin Mary water stain someone elaborated on as well.

In fact I can almost make out the underlying stain.


Here's another quote from that Wiki page....

"The devotion that has been growing in a chapel dedicated to Our Lady, called of Guadalupe, in this city is greatly harmful for the natives, because it makes them believe that the image painted by Marcos the Indian is in any way miraculous."

[hedgehog]

27. Sometimes you have to go beyond Wiki....

The present church was constructed on the site of an earlier 16th-century church that was finished in 1709, the Old Basilica. When this basilica became dangerous due to the sinking of its foundations, a modern structure called the New Basilica was built next to it; the original image of the Virgin of Guadalupe is now housed in this New Basilica.

http://www.sancta.org/basilica.html


Oddly enough, the symbol of the patroness of Brazil, Nossa Senhora da Aparecida, is acknowledged to be a manmade statue found in a river. There's a pretty good guess on who made the statue since there are others around by the same sculptor. This one was dragged up in a net by fisherman and has been associated with miracles since it was found.

[Silent3]

28. I clicked the link but I'm not sure I'm following what...

...you're trying to point out.

I see the line that says, "the original image of the Virgin of Guadalupe is now housed in this New Basilica", but I'm still not sure I know which image is being called "the original". That elaborate painting I showed in my earlier post? Something that that painting is painted on top of, as another poster suggested? A different artifact than the painting I showed, which is perhaps the inspiration for that painting?

[Enrique]

31. this is a vetting problem

Obama should have quizzed her about her knowledge of foreign cultures.

[spin]

32. Thank God Hillary was not elected President! (n/t)

[LynnTheDem]

33. BULLSHIT.

Mrs. Clinton was referring to a PAINTING of the image that was next to the image.

FACT.

But hey, why interrupt our "liberal media" with trivial things like FACTS.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0309/Clinton_aide_No_gaffe_in_Mexico_City.html

[Sandrine for you]

35. I like it lol...

[bamacrat]

34. That was hillarious.

What was she supposed to say to that, "Oh neat, he used oil paints I see, or was he a water color type of guy?" I mean I get that people have faith but really, Christians even admit man actually wrote the Bible, conveyed by God of course but still.

[piratefish08]

39. gawd preferred oil paints. jebus was only allowed to use crayons until he was old enough

to be trusted to not make a mess on the table with the paints.


:crazy:

[elshiva]

36. Good question. Who painted it? Maybe Marcos Cipac de Aquino?

"In fact, during a formal investigation of the cloth in 1556, it was stated that the image was "painted yesteryear by an Indian," specifically "the Indian painter Marcos." This was probably the Aztec painter Marcos Cipac de Aquino who was active in Mexico at the time the Image of Guadalupe appeared."

http://www.csicop.org/sb/2002-06/guadalupe.html

[BlooInBloo]

37. Aight - who's the thread-necro perp?