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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:27 AM
Original message
Get "Rapture Ready"
http://getraptureready.com/
I may regret this post, but have just started reading this book. Labels can be cumbersome, but the author refers to the Christians he profiles as "evangelicals", and not quite as narrowly as "fundamentalists" are defined.

He uses the criteria established by http://www.barna.org/ ("the nation's premier evangelical polling firm"), which adds seven additional markers to the base group "Born Agains" to arrive at a determination of "evangelical". The author notes that Barna's group of "evangelicals" would be considered by many "non-Christians" (of which he is one) as "fundamentalists". I tend to agree with him on that point (I would too). I don't know if liberal Christians consider themselves "evangelicals". I do not.

Evangelism is a different topic, which is not not pursued in this OP. For the purpose of the book, evangelicals are those who believe it is their DUTY to be "in your face". And, this is how they go about it: pop culture/merchandising. It was my laugh out loud moment at the following excerpt which prompted this post.

I was more interested in the first-time exhibitors' booths. These are the people who have dreamed up some gewgaw--or had it given to them by God, as they often say--and are convinced that it's the blessed tchotchke the world has been waiting for. Sometimes, they're right. In 2004, a gray-haired couple from rural South Dakota introduced His Essence: candles that smell like Jesus (from Psalm 45: "All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia"). Since then they have sold more than fifty thousand. Products aspiring to such success in 2006 included Virtuous Woman perfume and My Loving Jesus Doll, a sixteen-inch plush savior designed to comfort the lonely. "We targeted them to children," the maker told me, "but we also found senors are buying them." Sometimes, God will give two people the same idea, just to watch them fight it out. BirthVerse, a line of birthday cards with a different Bible passage for each day of the year, was going head-to-head with Happy Verse Day.

At one table I met a neurosurgeon who had been inspired to create a line of products featuring a character called Smiling Cross. This was, as it sounds, an anthropomorphic cross with its horizontal beam bent up into a cheery smile. Apparently the traditional symbol of Christ's agonizing death by torture was just too depressing. For the first time, I had the experience of seeing devout Christians embrace something that I, as a non-Christian, found sacrilegious. It wouldn't be the last.


"Jesus junk"
http://www.getraptureready.com/appendix/chapter-one/jesus-junk.php

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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. There are certainly liberal evangelicals.
Wikipedia article is good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

Fundamentalists are a conservative subset of evangelicals.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Labels are SO cumbersome.
Some 'fundamentalists' refer to parts of my understanding as the 'emergent church'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_Church

There are overlaps and gray areas.
From your link:
The term evangelical (with a lower case "e") can refer to the personal belief that Jesus is the Messiah.
...is not the connotation I associate with the label.

The polling group, Barna uses this description:
"Born again Christians" were defined as people who said they had made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that was still important in their life today and who also indicated they believed that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents were not asked to describe themselves as "born again."

"Evangelicals" meet the born again criteria (described above) plus seven other conditions. Those include saying their faith is very important in their life today; believing they have a personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs about Christ with non-Christians; believing that Satan exists; believing that eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works; believing that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth; asserting that the Bible is accurate in all that it teaches; and describing God as the all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today. Being classified as an evangelical is not dependent upon church attendance or the denominational affiliation of the church attended. Respondents were not asked to describe themselves as "evangelical."


Personally, I don't fit that definition of "born again", and I'm completely okay with that.
Labels and terms are very much like statistics. They are easily manipulated.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. True, especially when they don't mean anything in particular. Like "middle class"
I read this report that those who identified with the middle class were divided into 3 segments, including a major segment that made less than those who identified as "working class", or the bottom class. It makes for good rhetoric therefore to use the term, because it means different things to different people. But the rhetoric isn't always true for both the true middle class and the middle class that makes less than the working class.
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Bingo.
People get together and decide who "we" are so they can decide who "they" are. Then they can come up with an excuse to kick the stuffing out of "them".

A while back I read an interesting book by James P. Carse entitled The Religious Case Against Belief . The takeaway message I got was that while belief sets boundaries, religion is supposed to open them up. All to often, religion nowadays seems to do exactly the opposite and solidify (and prey on) the boundaries established by belief. It seems that may be the a pretty good description of how the compartmentalized thinking and denial get created in the minds of people who consider themselves faithful to a deity, but are only really faithful to their tribe.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Additionally...
I would tend to regard the folks who go all out for that type of merchandising as 'fundamentalists'. They are more likely than not to lean right wing politically due to their emphasis on control issues. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that progressives/liberals would be much more inclined to a live and let live philosophy. (I've always been idealistic, and this may be another example.)

Furthermore, I've known a few fundamentalists. They would be the first to condemn the RCC for "idolatry", but then think nothing of bringing in the candles to light up the room with the "fragrance of Jesus". At one time I attended a study at a Bible church. There was a hot debate about whether or not the ones who were practicing a form of 'healing visualizations' whereupon they mentally conjured their version of Jesus was idolatry or not.

If anyone here collects those products, I am not standing in judgment. It just isn't something I practice.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. My retirement
preceded me in rapture.

And I not so sure I want to join it just yet.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm glad I'm not the only non-Christian who finds this junk sacrilegious.
It seems strange that these people who actually worship Christ aren't offended by this shit, but I'm offended for them. And embarrassed for them. Truly embarrassed.
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. If the god doesn't exist in the first place
then nothing regarding it can really be sacrilegious. Silly, maybe, but not sacrilegious.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I think it's an ingrained mental habit from childhood that makes me
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 12:58 AM by Kitty Herder
feel offended at such things. And the empathic embarrassment for these people plays no small part.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It does indeed.
I laughed at the first chapter, but that was the only time. The second chapter saddened me greatly.

I appreciate Danial Radosh (author) As a self described cultural Jew, he brings unique perspectives.
The book is informative.

I knew that the Bible was the number one bestseller of all time. I hadn't realized that it is the best selling book every year. It set new records with sales increases of 25% during 2003-2005. Ninety-one percent of American homes own at least one copy. The average is four copies per household.
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