About this masturbation thing in the Bible....

[WCGreen]

In Genesis 38:8-10 the passage that features the infamous spilling seed stuff actually says this...


8And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.


This is from the King James Version...

Anyway, the holier than thou crowd tends to focus on the killing and linking that to masturbation because they don't want anyone to have any fun at all while exsisting on "god Green earth".

But the true meaning of this passage seems to me, at least, to suggest that Onan disobeyed God by not laying with his brothers wife and even though he was excited by the possibility, he was a man now wasn't he, so in order to "release" the pent up sexual pressure, he spilled his seed on the ground. Any sane person would look at this passage and see that God was punishing Onan for not obeying his edict to lay with his brothers wife and not for yanking his junk...

This religious interpretation was brought to you by secular reasoning.

[Taverner]

1. It's OK to knead the mead unless your seed has the holy need

Gotchya!

[WCGreen]

3. Now that, is classic...

[Brickbat]

2. The Catholic reasoning is pretty much just that masturbation = sex outside of marriage.

That is, sex without procreation.

That teaching was the beginning of the end for me and the Catholic Church. I spent a lot of time, uh, thinking about it as a teen.

[w8liftinglady]

12. you think it's tough being a male catholic?Try being a ...

very...curious...female catholic.It ain't easy...(well,actually-it is)

[Brickbat]

23. I was!

A female Catholic, that is. :hi: Still female now.

[Gin]

15. for everyone but the priests

[Liberal Insights]

30. Why the Catholic Church is OBSESSED with all things sexual :

Here's Why the Catholic Church is OBSESSED with all things sexual :
http://JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/Churchvsex.html

[HockeyMom]

4. What is their answer for WOMEN?????

Um, females don't spill anything. No babies will be made either way if a woman does or doesn't reach organism, whether through sexual intercourse or masterbation.

I guess to them, either way, women are irrlevant. They are just incubators.

[WCGreen]

5. Of course, the misogynistic tendency of the Christian Faith is pretty

well ingrained...

At least from my experiences which is why I am leery of most religions...

[w8liftinglady]

9. Honestly,that was kind of the norm until the last 40 years.

women's lib did help with that...not the Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_revolution

[Radical Activist]

16. Hah! Women masturbating and having orgasms?!

That's crazy talk! Are you a witch or somethin?

:sarcasm:

[REP]

6. You are correct. Onan's sin was to not conceive with his brother's widow

It was his duty to take his brother's widow as his wife; he failed in that duty.

[Dappleganger]

10. +1

It seems freaky today, of course.

[WillyT]

7. The First Time I Had Sex, I Was So Scared...

I was all by myself.

:D

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. Some might say you have sex on the brain...

And you're using the Bible (I am shocked, shocked, I tell you) to give authority to your um...inclinations...

:P


On the other hand, it could be just a very serious discussion...

About a controversial topic.


I report.

You decide.

[yourout]

11. When it comes to teenage boys....better in your hand than in her hand.

[intaglio]

13. Not quite right but close

The rule was that if a man died without an heir, then brother had to get the widow with child and that child counted as the deceased male's heir. If the widow proved barren then the closest male relative inherited so it was illegal not to try and inseminate the widow.

Right?

Well, Judah married his son Er to Tamar; God didn't like Er so he killed him. Judah then sent Onan to do the deed and he committed coitus interruptus, maybe he did finish himself off - who knows? So God killed Onan. Then Judah told Tamar to go back to her dad until Shelah, Judah's next son, was out of nappies and could inseminate her.

So the moral(?????) of the story is shag who your dad tells you to or you'll die.

[d_r]

17. right.

I think he pulled out rather than masturbated.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

33. That law is an anachronism.

That law is actually laid down much later in the Pentateuch, in Leviticus or Deuteronomy; it did not yet exist in the time of Genesis. However, it was extrapolated backward by the writers of Genesis so that Onan had to follow a law which hadn't been written. That is one of the ways we know that Genesis was written after the other books in the Torah.

[Ken Burch]

14. So it was actually saying that God isn't into "The Money Shot"

It wasn't about someone all by him or herself at all.

[mudplanet]

18. But, but, every sperm is sacred, isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

[mysuzuki2]

19. The true meaning of that passage has nothing to do with

sex or masturbation. In that sort of society if a man died childless the lineage died out and property would pass outside of the group. A man was required to try to impregnate his dead brothers wife so his line would continue. The resulting child would be considered as the dead man's. This practice is called the Levirate and is quite common in nomadic societies with a segmentary lineage system based on patrilineal descent. If you read the Old Testament from an Anthropological perspective you can gain a lot of insights.

[Lost-in-FL]

34. That sounds interesting. nt

[Historic NY]

20. Onan was a bit premature!

[Bluenorthwest]

21. That traditional, Biblical marriage in which you have to sleep

with your in laws. One man, one woman, their siblings,random passersby. God is in the mix! Sanctified Unions!

[AlecBGreen]

25. thats why I crack up at the fundies

when they cry about "traditional marriage" ... Im literally feeling like the googly-eye emoticon, "Have you READ the old testament!?"

[RagAss]

22. Did they kick this thread out of the Religion forum??

[AlecBGreen]

24. i agree with your assessment

the sin wasnt the sex, it was defying God's will.

As for masturbation, Christians should obviously heed the teachings of Christ, namely, when you lust after a woman and desire her merely as a physical object to gratify your sexual desires, you commit adultery in your heart. That is a no-no.

In my confirmation class (a church 'coming-of-age' for teenagers) my pastor told us "God made sex for two reasons: PROcreation and RECreation." I think he's right. We shouldnt feel guilty about our attraction to the opposite sex (or the same sex in some cases). I AM human and I AM a man and of course I am attracted by all those lovely curves and pretty faces, but when I lose sight of the human being and focus strictly on the flesh, I am lowering myself. Women are not on earth merely to satisfy men's sexual cravings, they are here as coequal partners, made in Gods image, and deserving of respect and affection. Thats how I interpret the Bible and that is how I try to view them.

[WCGreen]

26. I never made it to a catholic conformation because by the time I was 13..

I was questioning the contradictions that every religion must somehow gloss over so people will except some of the questions people invariably ask.

I sloughed it off by saying, well, at least in the next crusades, I won't be called up as a soldier of Christ becaue I was never confirmed...

But now at 53, I think that I may have missed something.

Your pastor was a very wise person.

[AlecBGreen]

28. What do you think you missed?

and yeah, my pastor is a great guy. It was very satisfying to have him preside over my wedding. He is all heart.

[WCGreen]

32. That post below this one was meant as a response to yours...

[WCGreen]

31. A sense of community that arises from a shared belief...

I was just another way that I isolated myself from a group situation.

If that makes any sense.

[AlecBGreen]

36. I understand

I am uncomfortable in groups and sometimes even with my friends. 99 times out 100, I would rather be alone. I think thats not the right way to live, though, so Im trying to change it. Is that similar to how you feel?

[WCGreen]

37. Group think frightens me....

Even in political situaions. It's far too easy to give up your individuality to the group, to be swayed by what everyone else is doing.

That frightens me, the idea of getting lost in the crowd.

I like being alone but I coulnd't really exist without the comfort and joy I find from my interpersonal relationships.

Which are few and strong.

[WCGreen]

27. I have to say this that I originally posted this in GP because I was

aiming this post as an attack at people such as the on again off again witch and self declared pious republican candidate for the US Senate from Delaware.

She and her ilk continue to push their religious beliefs into the public square when I suspect that all their religious fervor is just a pathway to power and has nothing what so ever to do with god.

[Taverner]

29. As are most religions: Anti-Human

Meaning, it is designed for those who want to be automatons for some sick structure of money and religion.

[onager]

35. Good discussion at the Forever In Hell blog...

http://foreverinhell.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-does-bible-say-about-birth-control.html