Did Jesus exist?

[seshers]

Please weigh in...

2nd Question: Is discussing personal beliefs about religion a bad thing?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Wow. Are you just LOOKING for trouble or what?

Nobody knows for sure therefore whatever anybody says in answer to your question doesn't matter a hill of beans.

[ananda]

5. composite maybe

I don't believe that there is any proof that Jesus ever existed as portrayed in the Bible, which is NOT a historical book... though it's treated in such a manner that people think it is.

It's possible that the Greeks who wrote about Jesus in the Gospels had access to some oral legends that had been passed down and become part of the mythlore of the region; it's also possible that the character of Jesus was based on people the gospellers knew or were very well able to imagine, along with his (jesus') obviously being based on other mythological figures from the ages, figures such as Mithra, Odin, Dionysus, etc.

Sue

[seshers]

12. No. Encouraging discussion.

What is wrong with open dialog.

[The Magistrate]

15. There Is No Shortage Of That Item, Sir

[SmokingJacket]

2. I think so.

Though my opinion hardly matters, being an atheist.

[stepnw1f]

3. This is Flame Bait

Good way to piss off people who actually believe he did exist.

[Big Kahuna]

10. Scroll down, look at the ad on the left.

yes.. the one with Satan beating the crap out of Jesus.

Might give you some idea why the topic was brought up. :)

[seshers]

11. How does this anger people of faith?

I would think that they would like to discuss this in a respectful manner. Why do YOU have a problem with open discussion?

[stepnw1f]

22. Ahhhh... yes. Open Debate...

Well have at it. And don't accuse me of having a problem with "open debate". And don't PRETEND this is not a sensitive issue for religious folk. Very dishonest, but the "open debate" statement was slick. That should shut me up... not!


Good luck, open debater.

[cdb]

4. Who cares?

[seshers]

16. I do.

I am a person who experiences growth through interaction and discussion. This is something that I wish to learn more about. Is that problematic?

[doublethink]

6. Here's a long disscussion on the subject .......

If you haven't allready seen it. Peace.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=40474&mesg_id=40474

[seshers]

17. Thank you. Peace 2 U 2

[savemefromdumbya]

7. there was probably a man

It is likely that there was someone like Jesus around that time. If everyone was as good as Jesus the world would be a better place. Unfortunately there are many that aren't (and who profess to be staunch Christians?).

[seshers]

18. I like the teachings of Jesus...

not the rhetoric of the Christian church. I KNOW the church exists. I'd prefer they didn't, but Jesus is fine with me.

[savemefromdumbya]

19. ITA

[The Magistrate]

8. Probably, Sir

Though it is certain no material survives from which an accurate account of the fellow could be given...

We have been discussing just this topic at some length, with some diversions, of course, in another thread here that you might wish to look into....

[Birthmark]

9. In a very real sense it doesn't matter

We can pretty much count on the fact that no one will ever prove that he didn't. Barring proof that he didn't exist (and perhaps even if such proof were found), huge numbers of people believe he did. Jesus, real or imaginary, is here to stay.

[savemefromdumbya]

13. a bit like Santa?

huge numbers of people believe he did. Jesus, real or imaginary, is here to stay and Santa!

[clydefrand]

14. Well, according to what I've read, the Bible tells us he did and

there is only one written record by a historian (Flavius Josephus, maybe?) of that day who mentions him. That only consisted of a sentence or so.

So I think it's left to us to decide that controversy on our own. I've been told that it's a matter of faith. If you believe Jesus existed, he did according to those who believe. If you believe he didn't, there is no way of proving that he didn't.

In my opinion, it's better to believe in what he purportedly said and did and try to behave accordingly. I will say that I've wrestled with the very same question for many years...and I'm old! :-) Have a good day and good luck if you're searching, too. Let us know if you find the answer.

In answer to your second quesiton: Talkin about religion is not a bad thing, IMHO.


Here's a site you might be interested in: http://www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm


Don't know how reliable it is.

[Dr.Phool]

23. Here's a treasure trove of things to study.

www.infidels.org

There are entire libraries written about that geographic location and time, and there is not one single contemporary mention of Jesus, other than the new testament.

I personally don't believe he existed. Could I prove it? No. That would be a violation of the rules of logic. You can't prove a negative.

[applegrove]

20. Of course he existed! Don't know about his conception. But yeah -

some amazing egg walked around and taught love.

A miracle really.

[kwassa]

21. And how many times is this topic going to be duplicated ???

[Chalco]

24. In contrast to most people..

I have actually studied the pre-Christian era: from 30,000BC to 3500 BC to be exact.

During that time period the deity was female and was considered to be a vegetation goddess. Around the time of the Winter Solstice the vegetation goddess went into the earth to arise again at the Spring Solstice. Gradually and starting around 3500 BC the vegetation goddess transmogrified into a male god. And, then that morphed into Jesus who has basically the same significant dates: Christmas and Easter.

To me it's all part of the yin and yang of things. Women ruled until 3500BC, then men took over. Since men have been in charge it's been one war after another for 5500 years. Hopefully women will take over sooner rather than later and before the planet goes up in smoke.

And don't flame me, because I don't care what you think. But if you'd like to discuss this, that's fine. I just think Jesus was another figure in a long line of vegetation gods and goddesses. No more and no less.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. You are presumably talking about the 'Holy Land' area

because you fail to mention most of the world's religions. Are you also saying that they were monotheistic before 3500 BC?

[Chalco]

28. No, just that female vegetation goddesses were worshipped before 3500 BC .

[The Magistrate]

29. And After That Date, For That Matter, Ma'am

This is a question where there is really not sufficient information available to draw hard and fast timelines that emerge from data.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. The same goddess over the entire world?

Or were there in fact many gods and goddesses, with often more than one in the same area?

[Chalco]

31. Apparently I wasn't clear.

Vegetation goddesses (plural) were revered. It was not monotheistic.

[saltpoint]

26. Hells bells, seshers. He did. He didn't. You'll never have

clinical evidence. You get this lifetime at least to make up your mind and you can sculpt the importance of a figure like Jesus on your own terms. Trust your own decisions.

A.N. Wilson's superb book, JESUS: A LIFE (I think that's the title) is still in print and findable on Amazon.com, etc. Maybe give it a look.

Also of interest: The Chieftains & Jackson Browne's song, "The Rebel Jesus."

[saltpoint]

27. to your second question: No of course not, so long as --

-- the point of the discussion is not to bark testimonials at someone else, as televangelists do, or furtively sabotage the Constitution like the former Board members in Dover, Pennsylvania regarding Intelligent Design or the AFA's bigoted assault on same-sex marriage, etc.

Many very secular folks encourage an exchange of ideas, but at the first whiff of theocratic perfume, they extend their claws. Jefferson and Madison despised fundamentalists. I'm with Tom and Jim.