Why no updates to the Bible?

[W_HAMILTON]

Even though the question could apply to any major religious text, really. Maybe there have been updates, and I just am not aware of them.

And I'm not talking about revisions so to speak, I'm talking about God speaking to someone the way he spoke to people "back then," and generating more biblical texts. Talk about slaves, and sacrificing animals, etc doesn't exactly apply as much to our world today. So why are there no more prophets translating the direct word of God, or obvious God-created miracles being shown on the news channels every day?

It's easy to get by writing texts "inspired directly" by God over thousands of years ago, when global communication was lacking, and we didn't know as much about the world as we do today, and people probably weren't in a position to question things in the way that we do today.

So the question is, why do people have faith that these guys thousands of years ago really talked to God, and all these miracles were happening daily, if none of it happens in today's world? Why is the Bible not changing constantly if God still speaks to prophets today, and if he doesn't, why do people believe he really spoke his will to those people back then?

[jrw14125]

1. What about Joseph Smith?

[demosincebirth]

8. Thats the Book of Mormon.

Its had, at least, 2000 updates. I read that some place

[Zhade]

21. That's about as relevant as the Left Behind series.

NT!

[William769]

2. It's all about faith.

[arcane1]

3. the simple answer..

is that it's all bullshit.

[MindPilot]

4. Good question

I think Pat, James, Johnny Rats, and all the other Christian leaders do get the updates on a regular basis which is exactly why you've seen Christianity morph from being about peace, love, forgiveness and generosity to what we see today.

And welcome to DU! :hi:

[ClintonTyree]

5. You mean the bible was written by guys like.....

Pat, James and Johnny Rats back in "the holy days"? That doesn't give me a lot of confidence in it's validity.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[W_HAMILTON]

9. I'm not an atheist

And also

(1) I'm new here so I didn't see an atheism message board in the list where I found this board, and
(2) I would imagine that, instead of asking atheists, it would be wiser to ask religious people in a religious forum about their religion.

It was a genuine question I've always wondered. I never understood why people would so readily accept what people thousands of years ago wrote as fact, even though none of what they wrote happening everyday back then happens at all today. So I was wondering if there was an explanation for it. For all I know, the religious texts could have had a justification in them that basically said, "God said he's through talking to us and creating obvious miracles that show his existence, from now on you just have to trust us."

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[W_HAMILTON]

15. Well...

Growing up, anytime we had to check what religion we were, I selected Baptist, because that's what my family was "supposed" to be, even though just about the only time we went to church was when someone died.

When I got in my late teens / early 20's, I started reading the Bible "just because." Somewhere around that time, the gay debate in the USA flared up, and I started seeing "Christians" and other religious people on TV telling me that homosexuality is a sin, and that God looked upon them as abominations, etc. As a gay guy who's never been attracted to the opposite sex, and has been gay as long as I can remember, watching these Christian people tell me what God wants and doesn't want pretty much convinced me that, if what they were saying was true, then Christianity was a sham. So I stopped reading the Bible, and for a time I guess you could say I became an atheist because I was convinced that if one of the world's major religions is a lie, then the others probably are too. I know being gay was never a choice for me, I was either created this way, or raised a certain way (even though the rest of my family was brought up the same way and they are all straight), or some combination of the two, ie something that was completely out of my power.

So if I was made this way, and these people are saying their God would not make someone this way, then that's pretty much all the evidence I needed to prove that their religion was not true. And that's not even based on faith, because if you know anything in this world, you know yourself. I don't think God would create me one way, then either (1) condemn me to hell for being how he created me or (2) put faith in religious texts and these religious people over myself, which, if there is a God, is the only connection to him I have (how he created me).

But I consider myself an agnostic now; I was probably one all along, I just didn't know there was such a thing for awhile, I thought it was either you believed in a religion, or you didn't believe in a god. I didn't know there was a label to describe someone like me.

So basically I'm not sure if there is a God; I hope there is, and want there to be one because I don't want this life to be it. I've prayed before, but I'm not going to act like I really know if there is a God or not, because when it comes down to it, no one really knows.

[Dr.Phool]

7. They update it all the time

Good article in this issue of Free Inquiry. Article titled "Twisting Scripture".

But, it's not available on line.

[demosincebirth]

10. No such thing

[Zenlitened]

11. Good question. I'm not sure how they rationalize that one.

There are some handy "protections" built into the christian bible -- something about anyone who adds to or deletes from it is cursed-in-the-eyes-of-god blah blah. So the answer to why isn't there some new stuff added to the bible is... because the bible says there can't be. :crazy:

I've also heard some discussions as to why the "age of miracles" ended, but I admit it didn't really sink in. Kind of like debating how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. (Answer: as many as you'd like, as long as yer makin' stuff up anyway! :D) Just empty rhetoric, IMO, a weak effort to explain away inconvenient facts.

Of course, some people will claim "miracles happen every day." But I took your post to mean big-daddy-in-the-sky-comes-down-and-lays-down-the-law type of happenings. Be pretty impressive, here in the age of live satellite broadcasts.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. What's keeping YOU from writing one?

Might catch on!

[Inland]

14. Most christians don't feel the bible is the be all and end all

Catholics, for example, believe that revelation of dogma is continuing, and that the holy spirit guides the church as a body. The bible was never meant to be perfect or complete in itself, so there's no need to "write new books" in an attempt to make it so.

Ironically, those who believe in the inerrancy of the bible also believe that no more books should be written, because the bible, being perfect and complete, can't be supplemented.

Similarly, the muslims believe that Mohammed is not the only prophet, just the final one with teh last word. Everything else is exposition on the message to Mohammed, on Mohammed's life, etc.

In either event, the days of writing sacred scripture is over for them.

[Ian David]

16. Check these two books

The Secret Origins of the Bible
by Tim Callahan
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/imageDB.cgi?isbn=0965504794
ISBN:0965504794

Publisher Comments:

It is surprising that a book as widely explained as the Bible can still hold secrets. Many intelligent and otherwise well informed readers will find much of the material in this book new and quite startling, although Bible scholars, and anyone who has even an amateur background in comparative mythology, will be familiar with it. Bible scholar and religion editor Tim Callahan fills the gap left by many Bible interpreters who examine only those Bible verses which can be made to support their personal or political views. But the world needs a broader understanding of its sacred texts, particularly when selective interpretation of the Bible is used to fuel extremism, and when interpreting Bible verses out of the context in which they were written intrudes on rational solutions for modern problems.Callahan uses comparative mythology to demonstrate how Bible stories that do not make much sense on the surface can be understood on deeper levels when their mythic content is revealed. He uses literary analysis, history, and archeological comparisons to expand our understanding of the purpose these stories served for those who originally wrote them.

Synopsis:

It is surprising that a book as widely explained as the Bible can still hold secrets. Many intelligent and otherwise well informed readers will find much of the material in this book new and quite startling, although Bible scholars, and anyone who has even an amateur background in comparative mythology, will be familiar with it. Bible scholar and religion editor Tim Callahan fills the gap left by many Bible interpreters who examine only those Bible verses which can be made to support their personal or political views. But the world needs a broader understanding of its sacred texts, particularly when selective interpretation of the Bible is used to fuel extremism, and when interpreting Bible verses out of the context in which they were written intrudes on rational solutions for modern problems.

More:
http://www.powells.com/biblio/61-0965504794-0


Also:

Asimov's Guide to the Bible: Two Volumes in One; The Old and New Testaments
by Isaac Asimov

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/imageDB.cgi?isbn=051734582x
ISBN: 051734582x

Publisher Comments:

In Asimov's Guide to the Bible Isaac Asimov explores the historical, geographical, and biographical aspects of the events described in the Old and New Testaments. Asimov's attempts to illuminate the Bible's many obscure, mysterious passages prove absorbing reading for anyone interested in religion and history.

More:
http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-051734582x-24

[Ian David]

17. The Apocrypha: Books of "The" Bible that didn't make the cut

Apocrypha means 'hidden things' in Greek. The Apocryphical books of the Bible fall into two categories: texts which were included in some canonical version of the Bible at some point, and other texts of a Biblical nature which have never been canonical.


Deuterocanonical Apocrypha

The Deuterocanonical Books of the Bible These are books which are included in some version of the canonical Bible, but which have been excluded at one time or another, for textual or doctrinal issues. These are called 'Deuterocanonical', which literally means 'the secondary canon.'
Other Apocrypha

These are other apocryphal texts which never made it into any official canon, which nevertheless shed light on the Bible and its history.

The Forgotten Books of Eden
This is a collection of pseudepigrapha, specifically:


More:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/


On edit: These two look interesting...

Excerpts from the Gospel of Mary
This fragment, of disputed authenticity, puts the relationship between Mary Magdalen, Jesus and the Apostles in a radically different perspective than traditional beliefs.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/marym.htm

The Gospel of Thomas
These are reputedly the writings of the apostle 'Doubting Thomas'. This text purports to be a collection of the sayings of Jesus. Traditionally Thomas was Jesus' twin brother. This text shows strong Gnostic influence.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

[Disturbed]

18. When Jesus magically rose up into the sky and

went to Heaven God stopped talking to people on this planet. Those who claim God or Jesus speaks to them are now considered to be loons. Maybe 2,000 or so years ago people who claimed God spoke to them were considered to be loons, as well. We don't know that, do we?

[Evoman]

19. Why no updates?

Because it hasn't become open source yet, naturally. God is like Bill Gates, always seeking to become a monopoly and never letting outsiders play with his code. Boo.

Evoman

[greyl]

20. I call dibs on wiki-bible.com, org, net, tv, and biz !!

Don't tell anybody, ok? :)

(hmm, it looks like there is a wikibible.com that gets redirected to mybibletools.com. But it's blank. Maybe my peerguardian is blocking it)

[MemphisTiger]

22. Maybe he sent his prophets for now and has said what he

needs to say for the time being. In the Bible, God when silent for 400 years. Maybe he's just being silent for 2000+ years now. Faith is believing it something without any verifiable evidence. That's what I have in God. It can be a very tough thing to realize.

[InaneAnanity]

23. It's easy to break down a religious person's "faith"

Their faith isn't grounded in any sort of reality that exists in the known world.

Just ask any person of "faith" if he can imagine any worldly happening shaking their religious beliefs. He/she will undoubtedly say no, that their faith in god is unshakable.

That proves that their religious beliefs are not grounded in any sort of reality, because no worldy occurance can shake them.

They're all nutcases, every last one of them. Or, to put it in a nicer way, they are all bowing to the peer pressure of religion, in the same way a 13 year old girl nowadays bows to the peer pressure to wear form-fitting jeans.

[Inland]

24. Ho, hum.

I guess having established that "worldly occurances" is the only "reality", one can't believe in the some other worldly, supernatural occurances. Tautology is useful, but when I see the atheist beginning with an unproven premise, it looks really, really familiar. It looks like religion.

And when I see a person just out and out declare something which is empirically false, such as "they're all nutcases", I see a fundamentalist religion.

And when I see a person who pretends that there's peer pressure driving the believers, I see ignorance. One doesn't believe out of peer pressure. One might pretend to believe, but one doesn't actually believe. But if you really thought that, it would explain why you would drop a bomb: you think that all you have to do is provide peer pressure and everyone will change sides. How's that working for you?

[InaneAnanity]

25. Peer pressure

If not for peer pressure, please explain why American born children are usually christians, why middle eastern born children are usually muslims, why indian children are generally hindus, and so on.

[Inland]

31. It's the way they are brought up, obviously.

And reinforced by the community. But that's a little more substantial than talking about the fasion desires of a thirteen year old girl brought on by other thirteen year old girls, isn't it?

Clearly so, since people do become adults and do make their own way, and no matter how much you say it's so, they aren't nutty and they aren't impressionable bowing to peer pressure. Your theory doesn't fit the facts. What was that you said about "real evidence" never affecting anything?

[InaneAnanity]

32. It starts as peer pressure

continues on to indoctrination, and then exists in adults as stupidity.

[Inland]

34. Says you. Any evidence of that?

Or are you describing an otherworldly phenonmenon?

[Goblinmonger]

36. Of course not

It is just a miracle of god that Christian families give birth to little xian babies, Hindu families give birth to little hindu babies, Muslim families give birth to little muslim babies. Just think of the confusion if god's plan went haywire and a Christian family gave birth to a little pagan baby. Whatever would they do?

I mean seriously, are you telling me that a VAST majority of people aren't the religion they are because of their parents? Sure, there are exceptions. I was raised strict Catholic but am now an atheist. But guess what my sister and three brothers are? Yep, Catholic.

[InaneAnanity]

26. And, sure

you can believe in otherworldy occurances, but those beliefs won't exist because of any real evidence.

If faith has relevence in this world, then it must be malleable and changable depending on the goings on in this world. If faith is not malleable, as generally tends to be the case, then I will argue it has no relevance in this world, since no worldly occurance can alter it.

[Inland]

30. I love the qualifications.

Real evidence, worldly occurances. I suppose if I could nail down the limitations on what you would accept as evidence, we could see the difference of opinion. It'll come down to you simply not feeling what the believers feel, which is fine, and the opinoin you are entitled to feel superior for that, which is silly, and the further opinion that they must be nuts, which is empirically false.

[Goblinmonger]

27. Ho, ho, hum

The tired "athesism is a fundamentalist religion" canard. :boring:

[trotsky]

35. It's the only arrow in his quiver.

What else can you expect?

[Goblinmonger]

38. And it is such a tiny little arrow, too.

It almost makes me feel bad. ALMOST.

[Zhade]

33. One can believe in those things.

One just can't use subjective, personal, nontestable experiences (which could be anything from mental disorder to actual unexplained experiences) in an attempt to prove to others that those experiences mean what the experiencer takes them to mean.

For that matter, how is the experiencer to know for a fact that their experience is actually what they think it is? A vision could be a vision, or an hallucination.

[Inland]

39. Of course one can use subjective experiences.

Who's the evidence police? One can use whatever experiences, nontestable or otherwise. Whether you are convinced personally is a completly different matter, and whether it shows the person to be deserving of contempt and ridicule another altogther. That's not science, it's a cage match.

How do you know it's a vision or a hallucination? Without more, one doesn't know. Yet the assumption is that beliefs are the product of nutso cuckoo thirteen year old girl stupid people. Where's the evidence of THAT? Me, I can see liberal democratic believers who don't seem mentally deficient or clinically insane. How come nobody jumps on the insulters for making assertions directly contrary to the evidence?

[Zhade]

42. I agree, not all religious people are nuts.

Most aren't, probably (I don't know them all, so I have no frame of reference). So calling believers 'nutso cuckoo thirteen year old girl stupid people' would be just as wrong as saying all atheists believe it has been proven there is no god and they thus believe there is no god - neither assertion is true.

As far as evidence, personal subjective evidence only works for the person involved. It is not extendable to others (believers have no ability to speak mind-to-mind, nor to produce the experience for verification to anyone else). It's not evidence to anyone but the person allegedly undergoing the experience, and it could just as easily be a mistaken interpretation of ____ (where ____ is whatever may or may not be causing said experience).

[renter]

28. The updates are in Revelations,and...

for probably the same reason as any other book. All that needs to be said, is said.

[supernova]

29. Oh, I don't believe that

All that needs to be said, is said.

I think God is still speaking to us today. But I think you have to be honest about listening for Him. :-)

It usually isn't what the fundies or the Bush White House want to tell you He's saying.

Edit: Revelation should more aptly be titled John's Severe Isolation and Sleep Depravation Diary.

[Goblinmonger]

37. Not trying to be a huge ass here

but how do you know that the god that speaks to you is really god and the god that speaks to Bush is not? What special insight do you have into god that Bush doesn't? What proof do you have that your interpretation is correct and his is wrong?

[supernova]

40. I don't

If by "proof" you mean emperical, scientific proof, then no I don't. And there's no way I could explain my experience of it to you in a way that would make sense to you.

[Midnight Rambler]

41. Plenty of updates in interpretation

End Times theology didn't truly enter into the picture until the 19th century with John Nelson Darby and William Miller. Darby basically invented the Rapture. Also, the degree to which people interpret the bible literally has ebbed and flowed throughout history. I'm sure there are other specific examples as well, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.