Christian Frustration With Atheists...they can't profile us

[Proud_Democratt]

I just had a thought. Christians can't tell by looking...who is who. Christian's biggest frustration with Atheists is:

WE are not of different color....therefore no "profiling" or stereotyping can be done!
WE are of the same descent........""""""'""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""!
WE share the same names..........."""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""!

[stevietheman]

1. We also don't go around trying to shove our views down...

people's throats, and so fewer people know of our presence in society. :)

[William769]

6. Your joking right?

This is just a typical thread on DU about this subject.

[Proud_Democratt]

10. Not everyone shares the same feeling as me or you.

Different thoughts provoke different views....fair enough?

[stevietheman]

105. Absolutely not joking.

Atheists don't go around proselytizing. We only react when a religious person attacks us.

[salvorhardin]

2. But that's why they construct strawmen (strawpeople?)

If there's not something overt to about a demographic to scapegoat, just make something up -- then burn them at the stake. After all, we know they deserved it because we thought of it ourselves!

[AirmensMom]

3. Too bad you paint all Christians with the same brush.

[Proud_Democratt]

4. Too bad that many of these Christian paint Atheists as "immoral"

[AirmensMom]

5. Yes, that is too bad.

But that doesn't mean all Christians do that. I'm a Christian and I have never once said or thought that Atheists are immoral. Neither do I write negative posts about Atheists.

[William769]

30. Do you see Christians posting threads about Atheists on DU?

I think not! But yet, oh why even bother let them toot their silly "little" horn.

[Proud_Democratt]

33. Who's stopping them? I 'm not a moderator.

There are MANY Christian topics that I don't read or comment. It's about "choice"!

[William769]

38. It's about being respectful of someone's beliefs

To bad some people can't grasp that concept. :eyes:

[Proud_Democratt]

44. Too bad...nice try!!!!!!!! bye!

[William769]

47. You think I'm going someplace?

[Proud_Democratt]

57. In other words ...I will reply no longer to your comments.

[William769]

61. Hasn't stopped you yet!

:rofl:

[Proud_Democratt]

112. Is respect equivilant to fear?

Because I do not fear you or any god! I do not believe in any god!

[Proud_Democratt]

118. Here's the respect you offer...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=64719&mesg_id=64933

[AirmensMom]

41. Contrary to what you might think,

they don't feel the need to go around bashing people who have different beliefs.

[AirmensMom]

36. No, I don't.

And that's my point. I see plenty the other way around, though.

[beam me up scottie]

98. Ah, yes. The persecuted majority.

Terrible, just terrible.

You DID alert on every one of those horrible threads, didn't you?

And THEN what happened?

I love story time.

[beam me up scottie]

37. Good heavens, no.

DU christians are the poster children for tolerance.

Every one of them.

Little Jesus-ettes.

Never seen a single one ever say anything derogatory about atheists.

Or anyone else for that matter.

Hell, they're practically saints.

The only thing left is just the ceremony and the holidays named after them.

:rofl:

[William769]

39. Care to back up your statement?

[Proud_Democratt]

46. Don't fall for it...BMUS

[William769]

48. Yea it's hard to when there is nothing to substantiate.

:eyes:

[Proud_Democratt]

51. You're baiting

[William769]

52. Just asking for facts

Isn't that what atheists always ask of us? Or is that just a one way street?

[Proud_Democratt]

53. You mean replace logic with faith??

:rofl:

[William769]

59. Nice try, but you can't change the subject.

You can't prove what you profess to speak. I seem to know another group that does that.

[beam me up scottie]

55. What, that DU christians are saintly and angelic?

Why, just look at yourself, who could argue with me?

Why GD is just littered with posts illustrating their good will and charitable nature.

[William769]

62. Still waiting.

[beam me up scottie]

72. You're Jesus's twin.

Both so loving and kind.

Impossible to tell the two of you apart.

Really.

[William769]

77. Why thank you.

You don't even know what you just said.

[beam me up scottie]

Sure I do.

I learn so much from kind and loving folks like you.

[AirmensMom]

54. Well, they're certainly more tolerant than you and the OP.

[beam me up scottie]

58. Oh, and how am I intolerant, oh saintly one?

Please explain.

[AirmensMom]

63. Your sarcasm in your previous post reeks of intolerance.

So does the post I'm replying to. I never have claimed to be "saintly" and you're being obnoxious to call me that. I've never done anything to you, yet you ridicule me for my beliefs. Do you understand now or do I have to explain further?

[William769]

65. Just remember Jesus was ridiculed & hung on the cross.

See any resemblance here?

ON EDIT: I have asked repeatedly for proof that we make threads like this, still waiting for a answer. Bet you I'll be waiting along time.

[AirmensMom]

68. Well, yes he was ...

I don't think you will ever see the proof you are looking for. In the first place, it would probably be deleted almost as soon as it was posted.

[beam me up scottie]

70. The proof of intolerance is in my reply to you.

You two can share it.

[beam me up scottie]

69. So you compare yourself to Jesus?

I completely agree, I can't tell the two of you apart.

[William769]

71. The comparison that we have faith yes.

Wanna try again?

[beam me up scottie]

76. Need some wood?

I'm afraid you might run out.

I'd hate to see such a kind and loving christian have to go get his own.

[William769]

79. Jesus loves you.

Thats the message I give to you. He also died for your sins. What a guy!

[beam me up scottie]

81. So is that a yes on the wood?

Pine or willow?

[Proud_Democratt]

83. Dogwood

[Proud_Democratt]

84. I like dogwood trees...

just planted three....on a hill.

[beam me up scottie]

88. Oh, good, I've got one of those in my back yard.

It's quite beautiful, still blooming in fact.

[Proud_Democratt]

95. Wouldn't it be more beneficial for Christians to be "helping the

poor" rather than spending their precious time ranting here. You know that Jesus is coming soon...he'll be here in another 2000 years. I'm holding out for Elvis though.

[William769]

96. We are helping the poor here.

Also the mentally challenged. :)

[NMMNG]

100. And I thought the Christians on DU never said anything bad about atheists

[William769]

102. Who said anything bad?

The truth shall set you free!

[NMMNG]

115. Don't be coy

It's not becoming on you.

[Proud_Democratt]

120. Are you saying that an Atheistic person is mentally challenged???

If so...in what way?

[Proud_Democratt]

111. Did I once say that you were...

mentally challenged??? How Christlike is it to insinuate something that's not true?

[Proud_Democratt]

119. With at least a 80-85% majority in this country...

there would be a whole lot LESS "Homeless" folks....if the "tax-evasive" churches were DOING THEIR PART.

[beam me up scottie]

97. sigh...

I just came in here to get away from the sniping in GD.

Time for another break from DU.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

103. Scottie

PM me. This is getting too ugly. Yuk.

I've been visiting your site and want to talk about my brain. It's shrinking.

[William769]

89. St Matthew, 5. 3

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

[beam me up scottie]

93. Is that code?

I don't understand, Your Holiness.

Please spare this heathen child, I had no idea you actually existed until I found you here on DU.

[Proud_Democratt]

114. I don't love him...nor recognize him as a Messiah.

[Proud_Democratt]

87. Dogwood makes good furniture

[Proud_Democratt]

113. How many Blacks in America were "hanged" due to

Christian attitudes? Especially in the South....the KKK and the other Christians that had NO backbone to stop it!

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William769]

73. Still waiting on your proof, but we both know, we will never see it.

[AirmensMom]

74. Oh, that's what you say about people you are respectful

and tolerant of? Post a link where a DU Christian says something bad about Atheists. Why can't you do that?

[beam me up scottie]

78. I never said you were intolerant.

Quite the opposite.

You two are the kind of people we atheists look up to.

[Proud_Democratt]

82. Who is stopping you?

[beam me up scottie]

85. Now now.

Let's not interfere with their belief that DU christians never say anything bad about atheists.

It's not nice to antagonize them, they can't help it.

[William769]

90. Still waiting.

It's a real simple request.

[beam me up scottie]

91. For what?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I praised you, extolled your obvious virtues, what else do you want me to do, oh kind and generous one?

Forgive me, I've never been this close to a holy person before.

[William769]

92. Oy vey!

[beam me up scottie]

94. I know that one!

:D

[AirmensMom]

86. Who is stopping me from what?

Posting a thread saying something bad about Atheists? WTF? I don't have a problem with Atheists! I have a problem with people who are disrespectful of other people's beliefs, though. And why would someone have to stop me? Just because you CAN post a nasty thread, doesn't mean you SHOULD! Apparently you haven't learned that yet. Goodbye. I've had enough of this bullshit.

[NMMNG]

101. Ask and ye shall receive

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=64719&mesg_id=64933

[Random_Australian]

125. Beat me to it Buffy!

[demosincebirth]

24. I'm Catholic and what ever you want to believe, or not believe, is up to

you. I've been on Du for 3 years, or so, and I have never seen a post by a religious person calling atheists "immoral." Now, on the other hand, atheists take take quite a few liberties aimed at Christianity and christians. When was the last time you said something nice about a christian? Anyway why do you think we have our own forums?

I can't understand it. We are all democrats and here for the same reason (I hope), to help take back congress for our party and to make the next two years as miserable as possible for bush and his band of criminals

[beam me up scottie]

32. So you can take potshots at DU atheists?

Just a guess.

[demosincebirth]

42. Huh?

[beam me up scottie]

60. Oops,

I guess I wasn't supposed to see that.

[Erika]

7. I believe atheists/agnostics are humane

for humane sakes. They have a sense of morality that comes from within, not from fear of damnation or rewards of eternal life.

[William769]

43. But they love to antagonize.

[AirmensMom]

49. They certainly do!

[Random_Australian]

126. WTF? "they love to antagonise" "they certainly do"... And we're bieng

antagonistic?

Edit: Because Christians on this board never do: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=64719&mesg_id=64933

[Left Below]

8. We are ALL atheists....

Plus or minus one god.

[Mojambo]

17. That guy who was on Colbert the other night said something similar.

He was a wonderful advocate for atheism, wish I could recall his name.

[Goblinmonger]

26. Sam Harris

You can read his latest
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393327655/sr=8-1/qid=1146190191/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-4497031-7082367?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[Mojambo]

31. Thanks so much.

Saved me some googling.

[Proud_Democratt]

25. Believe me...an Atheist knows what he/she is...

[shamrock]

9. what?

"WE are not of different color....therefore no "profiling" or stereotyping can be done!
WE are of the same descent
WE share the same names"

Am I misunderstanding this? Atheists are all the same color, descent, and have the same names?

[Proud_Democratt]

12. Different from Christians...

[shamrock]

16. Christians aren't all the same.

My husband is an atheist, and he's brown (spanish). I'm white, Christian. ('course I don't go to church and don't push my beliefs on him, nor does he push his on me.) We've been married for 43 years, and that's with the differences in religious beliefs, culture, language, and all the rest that goes along with being married that long. And ours is a pretty happy, respectful relationship. My point is....it doesn't have to be a problem. I know people who are fundamentalists and I think they are missing the whole point of Christianity.

[no_hypocrisy]

11. Is it because we can't be picked out of a crowd?

If so, what color star do you think they would mandate that we wear?

[Proud_Democratt]

13. That's the point I'm trying to portray!

[Mojambo]

14. I don't think Christians are interested in profiling people

It doesn't matter what you are, it only matters what you need to become, a Christian.

At least that's the impression I get from the more aggressive members of the Christian faith.

[Proud_Democratt]

18. Ask an African-American or Arabic about profling.

[Mojambo]

22. Okay, but why?

It doesn't seem relevent to the point I was making.

I know profiling exists.

[Proud_Democratt]

23. Refer to post #21.

[Mojambo]

29. Okay, I gotcha. I don't necessarily disagree with that.

I guess I just don't see much value for Christians in profiling atheists (or anyone for that matter.) I think their gameplan is the same no matter where a person stands, CONVERT THEM.

[Trajan]

15. As an Atheist, I see this as too simplistic ....

without enough resolution to define a complex problem ....

It is also a 'sweeping generalization' fallacy ....

What 'Christian's' are frustrated about are a thousand of things, just like you are ....

They might have on 'extra' frustration, but you may be stretching to think a good many worry about what you do ....

I think they DO have this problem, though: Christian Theology has within it's tenets the belief that man is inherently evil, and will not be redeemed before ascent into heaven (AFTER being 'judged') .... Hence: Christianity can never view earthly mankind as intrinsicly 'good' ....

Since Christians are human beings, they are a subset of 'evil man', and cannot separate themselves from a despised, evil race of beings .... THEY are just as 'evil' as any human .... but they HATE evil ....

It is not a great stretch to claim that Christians must, by creed, despise themselves, and you as well .... Beliefs that preach hatred of 'evil' based on the membership of all humanity can only stoke negative feelings toward self, and society .....

As an Atheist, I do not despise ANY group of humans by creed, but by action and behaviour .... Men are animals, and WILL act as animals: but if one can agree to be 'civilized' and live according to laws established by a willing, consenting society, then I have no problem with them ... Law abiding citizens, living by THEIR laws, can, on the whole, be as good a living condition as it gets for a terrestrial animal .... History bears out the FACT of the harshness of human life ....

Try to kill another ? ... Steal ? ... hurt and harm ? .... THAT is behavioural, and justification for separation from society .... We would be justified in 'calling out' those who would harm us as human beings ....

But; to demean Atheists simply for their lack of belief ? ... OR to chastise ALL christians as 'haters' of Atheists, specifically, is clearly fallacious, and unjustifiable ...

[shamrock]

20. the message

that I understand from Christianity is love, that you can overcome evil with love. At least that's what we should be striving for, though most won't make it. I'm not trying to preach either.

[Trajan]

121. Explain the 'Love' of Hell ...

Explain how Jesus 'Loves' us by standing at the Gates Of Hell, pushing sinners within it's walls ...

Explain the 'love' of YHWH's Angels tossing sinners into the 'Lake Of Fire' ....

I don't see a lot of 'love' there .....

ANY 'Love' directed towards humanity which is purported to be derived from theology ultimately is derived, exlusively, from humanity ....

Mother Theresa was acclaimed (rightly) for her humanistic impulses, and her aid to those who need comfort ... She helped those who felt 'earthly' pain .... It was when she applied her 'love' towards easing such carnal suffering that she is revered, NOT for punishing sinners ....

Yet, Jesus is depicted as BOTH a Loving human being AND a Punishing God: which is he ?

I appreciate, as a secular humanist, what Jesus supposedly says that aids in comforting frightened beings on a frightful planet .... but many embrace instead his harsh denunciations against those who do not adhere to HIS supposed tenets, or should I say, to the tenets ascribed to him by his followers ...

I do NOT admire the Jesus that condemns otherwise good human beings simply because they do not adhere to Jesus theology, or hebrew theology, or christian theology, or islamic theology ....

A punishing Jesus, full of brimstone, fire and hateful condemnation, is not an admirable icon of love ....

[Erika]

27. Christ is the "whipping boy" of Christians

How feudal. He takes the beatings for others sins. So much for any Republican sense of accountability or responsibility. How convenient.

[shamrock]

28. In Christianity we are accountable for our sins.

I don't intend to go into it further here.

[Erika]

35. You made a statement, so will I

Christ is the Redeemer. He died for our sins so we may live.
Christian dogma.

[shamrock]

45. how do you understand this.....

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mar 10:25

[TallahasseeGrannie]

106. That's such a fascinating verse

and points out wide variations of interpretation. I have read that there was a gate called the eye of the needle in Jerusalem where people had to pay taxes or some sort of a toll. And the rich folks didn't like to go that route.

Now, I have no idea whether that is true or not.

Just thought I'd through that in.

[bluesbassman]

117. Actually Grannie...

what that verse refers to is the gate in the wall that surrounded the city was was called "the eye of the needle", and when a camel that was burdened with a rich man's possessions tried to pass through, the baggage packed on top would jam into the frame of the gate. Thus the camel would need to get down and literally crawl through the gate. A very difficult maneuver for a camel.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

122. Thanks for explaining

it for me. It's a great example of how we can misinterpret things. I happy you had the true meaning. I knew someone would know it!

[bluesbassman]

124. Glad it helped.

Although I wouldn't doubt that your explanation has merit. Definitely relates to the rich of today, they want to benefit from the infrastructure but sure as hell don't want to pay for it.

One of the reasons I like this verse is that it really transcends religion and speaks directly to the human condition. Of course much of what Jesus said was likewise universal in it's application. But I like this verse because it can apply to any materialistic obsession. Not that I have any problem with material possessions, it's just that many people fall into the trap of things being a end result rather than the incidentals that they are. It's kind of like this rethinking of the bumper sticker that says "He who dies with the most toys wins". What it should say is "He who dies with the most toys is dead".

[TallahasseeGrannie]

128. I'll extend that

to "he who lives with the most toys is half dead." Because we can get so overwhelmed with our junk. We really spend most of our life dealing with it, moving it, arranging it, coordinating it, organizing it, categorizing it...and when we die. There it is.

T-Grannie

[bluesbassman]

130. You Rock T-Grannie! n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

19. There's a point to this?

[Proud_Democratt]

21. My point is...Christians can't "profile" Atheists, unless they are

informed beforehand about an individual.

[demosincebirth]

34. I can turn that around and ask you the same ?

[Proud_Democratt]

40. You are right and welcome to do so. And may the "light of logic"

shine upon your brain as you write.

[demosincebirth]

50. My God has already blessed me enormously

[Proud_Democratt]

75. More than others?

[demosincebirth]

99. You remind me of my ex...always had to have the last word.

Good luck.

[Proud_Democratt]

80. How so?

What makes you so special that God would OVERLOOK the "homeless" or afflicted children???

[TreasonousBastard]

64. So? Who's doing all this profiling? I got a...

Turk and a Sikh selling me gas, an orthodox Jew selling me cameras, a Hindu selling me coffee and Double Gulps, and a Presbyterian selling me stuff at the church thrift shop. They're all pretty good people, and we get along without theological discussions or judgments.

Other than those, (and a few others, like at the churches I go to) I haven't the foggiest idea what religion, or lack of it, most people I know or meet are. Even at Quaker meetings or UU or UCC churches I don't know much about the personal beliefs of many-- and they can be wildly different. Nor do I really care. I don't really care what the Sikh at the gas station or any of the rest of them believe, and I only know that much about them because of the attire and symbols.

So, what's all this about "profiling" people?

[shamrock]

66. Exactly.

You said it very well, my sentiments exactly.

[Scribe]

56. Who is US?

Many Christians do not believe Buddhists believe in God. Noting just that, Carl Sagan argued that any discussion such as this must begin with a definition of 'God'.

My beliefs are a long way from the monotheism of Christianity and it is likely that many Jews, Christians and Muslims would consider me to be a non-believer. Yet, I do not consider myself to be an atheist and I've yet to be able to define 'god'.

[trotsky]

104. I understand your point and frustrations, P_D, but...

this was not an appropriate conversation-starter. Just increases the hostility toward us.

[Proud_Democratt]

110. I wasn't aiming for a "bloodfest". I was attempting to

make people aware of an "idea", that maybe Christians are frustrated with Atheists because Atheists are from the same "walks of life"...same color, etc. From the moment it was posted, it turned into "mudslinging".

To fault me alone for this is ridiculous.

My topic didn't feed the anger between these two groups. It existed LONG before my topic was posted!

I do think the topic was appropriate, however in R/T it wouldn't matter if I had posted "Mary and Her Little Lamb", the "mudslinging" between Atheists and Christians still would have evolved.

It will my last post in R/T, mainly due to irreconcilable differences.....two groups that will never agree, but yet are passionate about their faith/beliefs/nonbelief.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

123. LOL

On Mary and her Little Lamb. Because there are enormous theological considerations there!

There the Mary cults, and whether or not it was Mary Mag, or Mary Mom. And then was Mom a virgin or Mag a whore? And don't even get me started on the Lamb and the whole sacrificial meanings.

Yep, if you had posted just "Mary had a Little Lamb" we would have killed each other before lunch.

Maybe Ba Ba Black Sheep Have you any Wool? Hmmmm.

[bluesbassman]

127. I hope you reconsider your decision.

I for one would miss your posts as they seem to be genuine representations of how you view things. And isn't that why we're here, to express our views? Some of our differences may be irreconcilable, and yes we may never agree on certain points, but you're right about being passionate. I'd much rather have a discussion with someone who is passionate about something I disagree with than to chit-chat with a milquetoast yes man. Or are you really not interested in participating because of the calls from both sides to tone down the rhetoric and bring a little more civility to the debate? Just asking.

[Proud_Democratt]

129. I did reconsider...I'm not quitting this "worthwhile cause"

It is a cause. In my mind, it's a call for equality...similar to what Gays and African-Americans demand.

[Up2Late]

107. One of the funniest things I've ever heard an Atheist say was...

...when Fran Leibowitz was interviewed on KQED's radio show "City Arts and Letters," she was talking about what it sound like to an Atheist when people are preaching the Bible.

She said it sounds like, "...and then the Poppa Bear said..." :spray:

I'd have to agree.

BTW, I'm a Buddhist, but most Christians would and do label us Atheist, even though that's not completely accurate. It too difficult, and would take too long to explain to them the difference.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

108. My only problem with that analogy

is that "Poppa Bear" implies children's stories. I'd be inclined to use Paul Bunyon or a more adult myth.

But his point is illustrative.

Damn, now I've kicked this lousy thread up. Hopefully it will just die. I have that talent, you know.

[arwalden]

109. If I Got Rid Of My "American Atheists" Avatar... I Could Be More Stealthy!

I could be one of those sneaky "immoral" atheists you hear so much about!

[NMMNG]

116. "Stealth Atheism"

I like that. :rofl: