Is Judaism and the islamic faith messed up or what????? And Amer. Indians?

[The Straight Story]

I cannot tell which is worse at times.

Jews hold a lot of positions of power in our government, and look at how much money we give Israel. What's up with that?? They seem worse than conservative christians in those regards.

And Islam?? What's up with those burkas, weird laws, and hatred towards gays???

We spend a lot of time tearing christians apart - Just looking for equal time (and don't even get me started on the American Indians and all their wacko ideals/mythologies!!)

Let's give equal time to kicking the butt of other faiths - from buddhists to scientologists. Chime in with your links about how messed up these other folks are (and many might be dems, but with some work we can piss them off too!)



:sarcasm: (maybe....)

[mrcheerful]

1. Well how wacky is a religion thats based on one person saying he

"found" stone tablets and then "found" stone eye glasses that had it written that native americans were the lost tribe of Israel. Also in same book he said the Mayans and north american tribes were visited by christ right after he had risen from the tomb. So then this guy sat down and wrote a companion to the bible, a new testament if you will.

But have to admit, even though it sounds good, I can't believe any higher being giving out 72 vigins to the faithful. The sad part about all of the religions out there, they were to serve one purpose, to make man the best humans they could be towards their fellow man, its a shame that it isn't happening.

[The Straight Story]

2. You got that right

Religion has the best of intentions, but keeps getting locked into one view of things (and really, that is not too off from having no religion and trying to get humans to see things from one political viewpoint - what is the difference between right wing atheists and left wing ones?? Belief - and how that belief can help humankind).

It all seems circular. And based on belief. Why hasn't one been proven to be right??

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Straight Story]

5. Which American Indian belief?

There were many - which one was right??

[sam sarrha]

4. how do you put American Indians in that mess,,?? Abraham was probably

schizophrenic, today only schizophrenics hear the voice of god telling them to kill their children,... and Abraham's great great great great... grand child probably had multiple personality disorder.. he had 'fits' and *Channeled* what was taken to be a god..

however the American Indians did not have a god, the Plains Indians had a term 'Wakan Tonka', which intemperates something like... the Biggest/Greatest Mystery. they are shamanic.. they have have one of the most beautiful and highly developed spiritual systems i have ever encountered.. I was invited to be a student of a full blood Lakota spiritual teacher, i had out of the body experiences in sweat lodges, i had Claremont dreams.. but i had to stop my studies because of the intolerance of some angry and racist tribal members that essentially ran me off because i had blue eyes. but my grandmother was from the Rose Bud Reservation and was a medicine woman. i am still studying shamanism tho..

i am happy to be a Buddhist now, it fits well and is comfortable, it is an inclusive group, we dont have to wear funny hats, or placate jealous demi-gods, to keep from burning in hell.. i think the thing i like most about Buddhism is that the gods have their own realm.. and just leave us the hell alone.. i had some very bad fundamentalist extremist christiam traumas as a child..

[The Straight Story]

7. Spiritual = bad in some ways I have heard here

Atheism is the one true faith - how can you 'prove' that their ideals are any better???

[sam sarrha]

19. how about..... it works...

:shrug:

sorry but Atheism is not a a faith it is an opinion.


Buddhism professes to to be a path out of the suffering inherent in life..

all you have to do is try living by the 8 Fold Path, if life, relationships and mental processes improve, then there is a good chance it works for you. i found that so and have continued to peruse its study.. Buddhism is a psychology of life based on total and unconditional tolerance and compassion for all beings. even the Religious types that tilt your world.. everybody has to start somewhere, usually where you are.. is best. a prisoner in jail who studies a religion is stepping up a rung no matter what it is.. a step from wholesale madness to a somewhat flawed system is a very big step.

what concerns me is your intolerance and anger. i dont hate them, but i do point out what i find most inconsistent, .. when the Buddha died his students asked what they were to do next, what path to follow, he said, whatever path you follow that leads you to become a happier, more loving and tolerant person is a good path..

the followers of failed paths are people who are confused and suffering, because it doesn't work.. they do horrible things seeking happiness, and it doesn't work, and they end up blaming others for their unhappiness, The Dalai Lama calls it 'Unskillful means', they are trying but dont have the awareness of how things really work, one must have compassion for them because they are suffering a horrible life in ignorance while causing pain to others.. that circle is called Samsara

there are many American Indian traditions, my family heratage is the Plains Indians.. they do have a very interesting spiritual tradition, it is based on personal developement, so much so that they dont even tell the student what it is about, the student is introduced thru a series of spiritual journies and quests so the figure it out themselves..

i really do not have any idea of what you are talking about and i fear you dont either.. but feel free to ask me anything.. i have a fair amount of hands on experience with them. when i reffered to having trouble with them, the people involved were few and serious activists and purests, and a minority.. extremists if you will.. that is why the middle path is important.

[NMMNG]

6. ......

:popcorn:

[lvx35]

8. Here are some real assholes:

Sihks, Hindus, Shinto followers, Sufis, Sunni, Shi'ites, Russion orthodox, Catholic, Zoroastrians, practitioners of Eskimo indigenous faiths, practitioners of hoodoo, voodoo and santeria, Orishi worship and Lukumi and other african faiths, Aboriginal faiths, Quetzlcoatl worshipers and other south american indigenous faiths, taoists, Native americans practitioners, (especially those white buffalo people) jews, rastafarians, Lutherans, episcopalians, Wiccans, satanists, Qabalists 90% of the world, the entire history of humanity over thousands of years before atheists, and anybody else who denies atheists alone have the entirety of mataphysical truth on their side, and an obligation to tell everybody else about it!

:) :sarcasm:

[NMMNG]

9. Well, that pretty much sums it up

:rofl:

[lvx35]

17. hehe. well...

I'm glad you've been certified as tolerant, or else I might have my questions Buffy! :)

[NMMNG]

25. That was tongue in cheek, of course

Despite anything I've said here, I am not one to wish for the eradication of religion, nor do I think all followers of religion "a$$holes".

[lvx35]

31. I know.

Its all part of the disfunctional family fun that defines R&T! ;)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. Is it sarcasm or not?

You can't have it both ways!

[The Straight Story]

11. I CAN have it both ways, if I just believe!

Oh, and I forgot to bash the damned Amish. Sneaking around with their buggies buying up the land. Gotta keep my good eye on em.

[bloom]

12. I get your point.

Christianity gets knocked around quite a bit.

Though there are quite a few people around here who like to repeat people like Sam Harris who is against people being tolerant of people of ANY religion.

Some sound as intolerant as any religious people have ever been.

[Goblinmonger]

13. Sam Harris

doesn't give one good god damn about what you, as an individual, believe in the realm of the spirtual. He does have a problem with ORGANIZED religion. Can't say I disagree on that point.

[bloom]

14. Were the American Indians not organized?

I expect that you mean influential.

If specific religions a problem - it's better to be specific. Like I have a problem with right-wing religion, for example. And I don't like how influential the Catholics are - esp. when their leaders start influencing our elections, and our politicians and are against condoms and people die from their supposedly "pro-life" stances.

And there is the problem on Scaife and such people being able to use the organization that is in place in right-wing denominations to influence public policy - to their fascist ends.

Any organized group (religious or not) could potentially be used by some assholes who managed to be influential. Though - I've gotta admit - that it does seem to be the right-wing religious wackos who are completely brainwashed when it comes to Bush - they will support him no matter what.

I think there is the potential for organized groups to influence people in positive ways. Move-On and the Quakers do similar things. One group is religious and one isn't. Sometimes the religious groups are more influential just because of their longevity.


From what people have quoted from Sam Harris - it sounds like he condemns all religion and anyone who is tolerant of any of them.

[Goblinmonger]

16. I'm not trying to speak for Harris,

but I think he does have a problem with all religion. The structure, the forced belief in dogma that is not provable. All of that is a problem. Far too many evil things have been done because of religion and in the name of religion. Spirituality is another issue. His disdain for what you call "anyone who is tolerant" of religion is more disdain for what I would call the apologists that just stick their head in the sand and say the would would not be so well off without religion, which is a pile.

[sam sarrha]

20. so anarchy is Superior to any group that has a common interest..

:rofl:

[The Straight Story]

24. Thanks to all on the thread for some civil discussion

Quite refreshing when it comes to religious topics :)

[sam sarrha]

27. actually i am amused and curious about religion.. here in the south it is

so tribal. maybe it is because i am autistic and perceive in visual images it just doesn't translate..

besides the fact that all the Prophets have questionable mental health,

i also cant see judging others and dressing with the world view of 5000 year old goat herders..:spray: :rofl:

[Ron Green]

15. It seems the main ingredient for a religion must be

FORGIVENESS. If your belief system calls on you to forgive whom you'd normally see as your "enemy," then there's a plan for peace. I think it's good to forgive yourself as well, especially as you discover the True Self along the way.

Religions that allow for "enemies" and think of them as being "different" from the believers will pretty much fuck everything up.

[sam sarrha]

21. not quite right, religion requires one to believe a diety created an rules

the universe.. and the fate of all that reside in said universe

Buddhists arent concerned about the origions of the universe, just how to get out of it...

[Ron Green]

22. By "must be" I'm of course giving my opinion. Perhaps "should be"

is clearer. In any case, forgiveness is what it's all about. Even if it's simply forgiving our own separation from the One.

[sam sarrha]

26. "the one" ....what.?

[Ron Green]

30. The One

If you think of something so all-encompassing that both you and George W. Bush are united in it, it must be something indeed infinite. That would be God, Unity, the One, whatever you may call it. There are many names for it, of course, but even to name it is an illusion, just as to be separate from it (or from anything else) is an illusion. The act of forgiveness that I mentioned above is, I think, the struggle to reunite with what we thought was our enemy, what we fear.

[Strong Atheist]

18. IBTL. nt.

[Random_Australian]

23. IBTL! n/t

[Random_Australian]

28. Nah, I just want to repeat "All Christians are stupid" 3000 times because

I obviously think that. Just like all the others who believe in atheism.


Any other questions?

No, OP I'm not attacking you.



I like parsley.

[Dufaeth]

29. My favorite Amer Indian myth is the one about a guy having sex with

a deer liver.