All the knuckeheads are dissing horse racing in GD.....

[trumad]

and they haven't one fucking clue to what they're are talking about. One post said this shit never happened before and now it happens all the time. Oh really....???

One claims it's because it's a 20 horse field.

[TZ]

1. There's more of that shit in the LOUNGE too.

But a fool who was watching the Derby even though he hates it too.

[jakefrep]

2. Incidents such as this always smoke out the reactionaries

Then again, people bitching about things about which they are ill-informed is par for the course in GD.

Sadly, the tragic death of Eight Belles will inevitably dominate the Sunday talk shows, not the dominating performance by Big Brown.

[Bryan Sacks]

3. It's terribly sad to see so great an effort turn tragic

She was a remarkable animal. I won't soon forget the way she finished - all heart.

I don't know if it's natural, but I know it's COMMON to try to find someone to blame. My first reaction was to curse Larry Jones for running her 1 1/4 miles. But is that fair?

Imagine if she had won.

[jakefrep]

4. I wouldn't fault the trainer...

He had a very good horse for the Derby last year (Hard Spun), so he knows a thing or two about what it takes to get to the Derby. He felt that Eight Belles was superior even to Hard Spun - based on how she raced today, that probably isn't far off.

[two gun sid]

5. Cowboy Jones is a great trainer...

and Eight Belles was a huge well made filly. Physically she was more than a match for every colt in the race.

[aaronbees]

7. She ran a race certainly on par with Hard Spun's Derby

last year. She belonged in this field. What happened today is just inexplicable to me. She was a tough, sturdy horse - ran nine times, more than many of the colts in today's race. And to see her fall like that ... good God ... both legs??? Dr. Bramlage said he'd never seen anything like that in the gallop out. I know her sire, Unbridled's Song, had foot issues on the track - how about his offspring?

I don't fault Larry at all, and I'm sure the stable is taking it hard.

[two gun sid]

8. Unbridled's Song's get have had some soundness issues...

but, what happened today...just a real tragedy.

[LWolf]

6. I grew up with a rescued race horse.

He broke a cannon bone on the track and was rescued by a family member when his owners were going to euthanize him.

He sired the senior mare in my barn. During my 48 years my family has rescued several horses injured on the track. While I enjoy racing as a sport, I've always known the drawbacks and the abuses. They are real.

I'd like to see the sport reformed to address the worst of those abuses, myself. I discussed that in one of those GD posts.

A lifetime spent with real horses gives me perhaps a different perspective. They aren't a commodity or an investment or an entertainment. My horses are part of the family. While I enjoy equine sporting events, including jumping, cutting, and reining as well as racing, I'm well aware of the abuses that happen when the athlete is a non-human.

Eight Belles ran an amazing race. She left them all behind but Big Brown, who also overcame the odds and left the pack in the dust. That she was that rare filly who can take on the colts just makes it worse, if that's possible.

[TZ]

13. Some people are really good with rescuing animals

and treating their animals with respect and love. But somehow that seems to get lost in the shuffle and everyone who likes racing must like animal abuse on this board.

[LWolf]

19. We can like racing,

and not like the abuses rampant in the system. There was an interesting article this morning about American racing being harder on horses than European racing, and some of the reasons why: shorter races run at high speeds from the start, harder, more abusive surfaces to run on. It suggested that the move to polytrack was a step in the right direction, and I agree.

I'd also like to see training and racing begin a year later than it does now. Giving babies, and that's what 2 and 3 yos are, more time to grow and develop. The push to train and compete horses at two years old causes a lot of life-long injuries and disabilities that could have been avoided by allowing them to mature another year before putting that kind of stress on their frames. This is true in other competitive arenas, too. Cutting horses, for example.

Allowing them to run with Lasix is also problematic, allowing weaker horses to continue to contribute to the gene pool.

I'd like to see some regulation of breeding stock, with inspections required before an animal was certified to breed. Breeding for a single trait weakens the breed. Inspections to ensure adequate bone for the size of the horse would help a lot.

I read another article this morning that talked about Unbridled's line as known for being unsound and highly competitive, willing to keep going despite discomfort or pain. I don't know how accurate that is, but it seems to fit for the gallant Eight Belles.

Thoroughbreds are difficult rescue horses. They are not exactly thrifty keepers, lol, eating quite a bit more than many other saddle horses. When they come from the track, they need a lot of schooling as well as rehabilitation. Horses in race training don't learn many of the simple lessons that others do: how to walk respectfully on a lead rope (as if being unmannerly is somehow an indication of "spirit" or energy level,) how to tie, how to stand calmly tied while being groomed and saddled, how to give to hand and foot pressure.

They are also just BIG. While all horses are bigger than people, and outweigh people, schooling a horse in ground manners that is THAT much taller than you can be a challenge. A few years ago, I rode with a young woman who rescued a 4 yo who had suffered a track injury. He was gelded and physically rehabilitated; had a relatively calm and cooperative disposition. He had no saddle training beyond the little racing "saddle," and wasn't used to being ridden by people of normal weight. When he protested with a little crow hop, she flew 10 feet off of his back. A "little hop" for an animal that size is a significant movement, lol.

Thoroughbreds also have a limited scope of usefulness off the track. If you want a jumper, a hunter, or a dressage horse, they fit. If you want a trail horse, a pleasure horse, a cow horse, they don't. I have another friend trying to find a home for a healthy tb mare right now. She can't GIVE her away. Sound, but not for breeding; no vices, some training, she needs to find her a home because she has another rescue horse coming in to feed. She's offered her for 4 months. No takers.

Congratulations, btw, on your 2nd place DU finish. ;)

[spoony]

9. Well then respond to them like an adult

instead of being a sniveling gossip here.

[TZ]

15. yeah thats really mature of you labelling this "sniveling gossp"

Too.
In the other threads its kind of hard to be mature when all the "experts" know all about Horse Racing based on watching it on TV.
This forum has people who actually KNOW the business warts and all.
Its fun to prejudge people isn't it...

[spoony]

26. You mean like assuming people only "watch it on TV"?

It must be fun to prejudge people, because everyone does it.

There are numerous people who have had experience with rescued/retired animals who have posted, and there are also a number of articles cited. There literally is no logical argument to continue abusing these animals except that you and some others enjoy it, and that just isn't good enough.

[Forkboy]

23. Speaking of reactionaries....

[Forkboy]

24. I'm a little uncomfortable with using animals as entertainment.

But I'm also a little uncomfortable making burgers out of them, and I do that, so I can't really complain. :)

[BlooInBloo]

10. I think horse racing is stupid, but not for any animal-hugger reasons...

... I just think it's stupid.

[trumad]

12. uhhh ---OK

[Awsi Dooger]

11. I'm seeing the same reaction on site to site

Very difficult to stay out of it, without labeling the posters as clueless.

On another political site I saw a link to a Washington Post article in tomorrow's edition by Sally Jenkins, who claims horses are over raced.

Yep, that must be it, far more active than the old days, particularly when pointed to the Classics. Unbelievable.

I've been following for 40 years and I've never seen anything like Eight Belles today. But this is one way to look at it. Let's say she had run in the Oaks yesterday, with the identical outcome. There wouldn't have been a peep in the papers today, other than the specialized horse racing-related media. Sports Center would have covered it briefly last night. The once a year Derby viewers wouldn't have had any idea it transpired, and those Lounge and GD threads would be remarkably absent.

High profile episode = blinders-on hysteria

[TZ]

14. Yep.

There was a post this moring by someone I really like comparing horse racing to cock fighting because of Eight Belles.
Apparantly horses die in races ALL the time!

[two gun sid]

16. Chelokee...

he brokedown on this years Oaks day in the Alysheba and I haven't heard a thing about him. Originally they thought it was a Condylar fracture but it turned out to be a dislocated ankle. He's at Rood & Riddle now and should be OK.

I'm all for discussing how we can make the sport safer for the horses and jocks. I don't like horses or people getting hurt.

[jakefrep]

17. What is particularly galling...

is the assumption held by some here at DU and in some corners of the media that nobody in the sport a)is deeply concerned about horses that break down or b)actively interested in remedying the problem.

[bread_and_roses]

18. I understand your ire about the ill-informed...

...(Secretariat didn't run at two!)...but it is doubtless that, as one sportswriter put it on ESPN.com, "There isn't a huge appetite in this country for sports in which animal death is a routine part of the equation." And surely that's a good thing?

From everything I've read, I think it probable that running TBs at two is a bad idea. Running horses on dirt is probably a bad idea. Running horses on drugs is probably a bad idea. Tolerating excessive whipping is probably a bad idea (I'll never forget reading a reminiscense of Turcotte's, when he said that down the stretch in the Preakness he could hear the whip striking Sham over and over, and maybe in the same article, maybe somewhere else,that the horse came back with weals from it. That wonderful horse, running his heart out, being whipped so hard that we'd arrest a cart-horse driver for abuse if we saw it?) And then we read how these beautiful creatures, bred and run solely for our pleasure, are abandoned to a cruel death at slaughter, some even after winning large sums. And we wonder that people burst out in anger after seeing one run the race of her life then crumple to the track with two broken legs?

Racing has done far too little over the years to address its' many problems. Maybe had they done so, I'd be less tolerant of ill-informed outrage.

For myself, I watch it almost against my will, given all the above. I watch for a Big Brown, for a Barbaro, for a Curlin, for the exceptional, for the incomparable thrill of the exceptional, because I do think that these horses love to run - an opinion only reinforced by watching the works, such a pleasure this year to have that available - and that if they don't want to run, they won't. Otherwise a Pyro would never finish trailing the field.

But I am glad the outrage is there. I have to deaden some part of myself - including my core political self - to follow this "sport of kings," this celebration of excess and consumption, redeemed only by the beauty and innocence of the horses. And beauty and innocence dying for our pleasure will always, and should always, evoke not only grief but anger. Better anger misplaced, even, than anger absent.

[aaronbees]

21. Absolutely, Kenzee

I'd rather have misguided outrage than indifference, which is what we'll be getting if the sport doesn't take greater steps to change. Why bother watching the great races (like the Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup) if there's a solid chance a horse is going to break down? People will tune out and rightly so.

From changes in breeding practices to the surfaces (I think there is still a case to be made for safer, better maintained dirt courses and continuing the experiment with synthetics, particularly Tapeta, which seems to be best of all) to getting rid of the drugs that mask a sore horse, the game has a lot to clean up. The sport needs to do a better job of scanning and evaluating horses before they hit the track (OB has spoken up on this). The history of slaughter and horses as pure commodity is sick. About racing as two-year-olds, I'm not knowledgeable enough to hazard an opinion, but the propensity of getting quick, precocious young colts to the breeding shed after they're injured and cashing in on sustaining those blood lines is part of the problem.

Much more of this and I'll start following just the Cali courses, turf racing and races overseas. I don't ask that no breakdowns occur because that is impossible - just that the sport takes pains to ensure a safer game that doesn't sabotage horses from the get-go and doesn't treat them like fodder after they're done making money (or not making money) for the owners.

I'd love to see a federal investigation of horse racing if only to get a single, organizing body over the sport and kick some habits and bad characters to the curb. Horse racing as it is now is not sustainable, yet the powers in the game cling to these notions that will surely kill it. I mean this is an industry that can't even get its online betting and simulcast signals together so people have a coherent product to work with.

I watch for the same reasons you do, to see a dash of real greatness: Secretariat's insurmountable lead widening, Seattle Slew fighting tooth and nail down the stretch, Rags to Riches muscling her nose past Curlin to the wire, Street Sense sailing around the turn as if coming out of a dream. Those moments are unforgettable and timeless. Race horses have taught us about talent, courage and real heart. But sometimes I feel we don't deserve to see that greatness.

[jojo54]

20. Being a show jumper in my teen years

I do know of the abuses that go in in all competitive sports. Horse racing is a noble sport but the almighty dollar tends to take things to the extreme. It has become a big money maker and this is where my line is drawn.

[jakefrep]

22. I think I made a fool of myself in LBN

....Responding to the Sally Jenkins drive-by piece in today's Washington Post.

I'm sorry....My family has bred and raced horses for the better part of the last 35 years. I have no illusions that the sport is perfect, but I am so incredibly incensed by the broad-brush assumptions that we in the business don't care about the horses.

We have tried to leave our corner of the sport better than how we found it.

We have placed our horses in the hands of those whom we believe will give them the best possible care and training, and race drug-free.

We have gone to great lengths to find good homes for those horses unable to race.

Don't fucking tell me we've engaged in animal cruelty.

[Justpat]

25. It brings out the appalling ignorance in so many -

caught up in their self righteous melodrama.


There is no sport that should be under the control or inspection
of those who know the least about it.

There is no doubt in my mind, however, that we are breeding
inferior horses. I am so old and been in this business so long
that I can see a change in horses. One thing I am sure about
is that polytrack benefits the people who produce it more than
it helps the horses.

We had to go to NC for a couple of days and I 'm in the car
writing this on my laptop but I'll check in later when we
get home.