I'll say it again.

[Condem]

Let's play some Bowl games in the Midwest in January. The Pac-10 and the SEC would fold like a house of cards. Pussies.

[BlooInBloo]

1. hahahaha! Good one.

[El Supremo]

2. I think you must mean Mountain West. n/m

[Condem]

3. Hey, El

I thought you were paying attention to a fucking hockey game. You obviously weren't watching the Hawks, yesterday. You're crowing at halftime? You're going to get beat, El. Sorry.

[Condem]

16. Congrats, El.

I thought they had you at 21-17. Good job!

[Upton]

4. They've got 1 win in 6 games

the Big 10 is no better than a mid major. When the conference earns some respect, they'll get it. Until then, talk is cheap.

[Condem]

5. Get the fuck off your high horse, Upton.

Did you play ball? Stay in some fucking hotel while the HOME team was at home? Eat the food? Get used to the temps? Nah, cos you don't know shit about it. You're probably not even from the south. The west, I'm gathering. You're a fair weather friend. Nothing else. MSU was in it to the end. In Florida. Northwestern. Heavy underdogs to Missouri. OT. You don't know shit , Upton. If you did, you'd be a Big Ten fan. Always on the road in the bowls. Asshole.

[trumad]

6. Yo dude...

I remember my first beer....

[Condem]

7. Lighten up, trumad.

You're lingo. I'm guessing 24.

[trumad]

9. Yeah and I was guessing you were in to your 3rd 6 pack...

[Condem]

11. Good one, trumad

It was either go to bed or watch for your banter. It wasn't a hard choice.

[trumad]

12. You mean pass out, right?

[Condem]

15. I'm laughing, Tru

Well done. Do you sleep? Off to work. Have a good day.

[Upton]

20. Scoreboard

SEC 5-2

PAC 10 5-0

Big 10 1-5

To get respect, you have to earn it.

[Condem]

30. Love ya, Upton

Sorry for calling you an asshole. You're a good shit. Misguided, but a good shit.

[Elwood P Dowd]

8. So you can't handle the fact that the Little 10 is the laughingstock of the nation.

You want to play bowl games in locations where it's 20 degrees with blowing snow, and the fans and players are freezing to death. You need to start another sport - football on ice. There is a REASON why the football regular season ends in December. There is a reason why the bowl games are played in warmer climates or in domes. There is a reason why The Super Bowl is not played outdoors in Minnesota during January.

The SEC puts the most players in the pros because THEY HAVE THE BEST FUCKING PLAYERS. The PAC 10 and Big 12 are right there with them. The Little 10 has become a joke.

[Condem]

14. How do you explain Kirk Ferentz's record against the SEC?

3-1, Elwood. The best talent? I'll give you that. Heart and character- not a fucking chance. He's beaten your fuckin best coaches. You have the nerve to post this after the Sugar Bowl debacle. What iron stones. That's the SEC for ya. Still flapping their yap even when they're getting their ass handed to em.

[Elwood P Dowd]

21. The SEC is 5-2

which is about where I thought they would be, except I thought Bama would win and Vandy would lose. The Little 10 (or 11) has exactly ONE bowl win this year -- talk about getting their asses handed to em! As for Iowa's game, just about everybody knew South Carolina had tanked at the end of the regular season. Pretty sad to be bragging about beating a 7-6 team that has given up on their season. South Carolina never should have been in that game, but instead should have been placed in the Chicken Bowl against Ga Tech. Iowa is extremely fortunate they didn't get LSU, Georgia, or Ole Miss in that game, because Ferentz might then be 2-2 against the SEC.

[Capt. America]

22. Big-10 vs. SEC Bowls

If I am not mistaken, the Big 10 vs. SEC are 9-9 in their last 18 bowl matchups. Sounds pretty even to me.

Also, about your previous point about the weather. I don't know if you have noticed but the NFL plays football in Green Bay and Buffalo in DECEMBER and JANUARY and, surprise, people show up to watch the games.

[Elwood P Dowd]

25. Move all the bowl games up there and watch what happens.

The stadiums will be half-full at best for most of them. Green Bay and Buffalo stadiums are filled with local NFL fans, not college fans traveling hundreds or thousands of miles for some football and a break from winter weather. Just how many Georgia and Michigan State fans would have traveled to Buffalo for the Buffalo Cap One Bowl? I've attended a few bowl games in New Orleans and Atlanta involving SEC vs Big 10 teams. Believe me, the northern college fans love coming south for these games.

[hughee99]

48. Yes, fans show up to watch the HOME team play.

Will people show up in Buffalo to watch Vanderbuilt and Iowa play in the "who cares" bowl, though?

[Condem]

29. Wow, Elwood. That's your reasoning?

Seems to me Michigan State got their ass kicked in thir final game. Yet, they gave mighty Georgia all that they could handle. Pure speculation. Nothing more. Come up with something I can sink my teeth into.

[Elwood P Dowd]

38. South Carolina lost their last two regular season games by a combined score of 87-20.

Any decent team would have stomped SC on January 1st. They were terrible. Troy or Buffalo could have beaten them. Now here is something you can sink your teeth into; The Big Ten has exactly ONE bowl win this year, and it came against a team that lost it's last two regular season games by an average score of 43-10!

[Condem]

51. We didn't lose to a mid major at home, now did we?

Of course not. We are NEVER at home in the bowls.

[Elwood P Dowd]

52. Why do you keep saying the Superdome is Alabama's home field?

New Orleans is 400 miles from Tuscaloosa, and Bama hasn't played a game there since 1993. For all I know, Utah may have more experience the past few years playing in domes or on artificial turf. Bama plays on grass. Florida beat them pretty good in the Georgia Dome for the SEC championship running the spread, and Utah did the same to them with the spread in the Superdome. Sometimes bowl games come down to matchups, and Bama obviously had problems matching up with good spread teams like Florida and Utah. They also had problems with Utah on the edge when they lost their two best offensive tackles.

As for Utah being a mid major, that is one mid major that could beat just about every team in the Big 10 on a neutral field. They may be a notch below Florida, Oklahoma, USC, and Texas, but they looked to me like a team that probably deserves to be ranked 5th or 6th in the country when the final polls come out. The only complaint I would have about Utah is that they don't have to go through an 8-9 game BCS conference schedule that would wear them down by the end of the season.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Elwood P Dowd]

58. Elwood P . Dowd is the name of Jimmy Stewart's character in the movie "Harvey".

You have crossed the line Condem.

[Condem]

60. What line is that, Elwood?

The goal line?

[Elwood P Dowd]

62. You obviously haven't been here very long

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

The DU discussion rules state . . .

3.Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

[Condem]

63. Respect in the sports forum, Elwood?

What a laugh! I'll quote Trumad on this one. "Go back to the Lounge". You don't belong here.

[GaYellowDawg]

66. What a load of bullshit.

Seems to me Michigan State stayed in the game with Georgia in the first half due to Georgia's 2 turnovers and botched punt. Seems to me that Georgia outscored Michigan State 21-6 in the second half when they woke up. Seems to me that the game really wasn't in doubt after Georgia went up 17-6. "all that they could handle"? Not so much. Try again.

[Condem]

68. That Ga Tech loss still hurts doesn't it, Yellow?

Bullshit? It's always the SEC teams mistakes that keep the other team in it. Is this your other handle, Elwood? Hard to believe but this other "you" is more clueless than you are. Try again.

[GaYellowDawg]

69. So you're a Tech fan now?

Figures. And here I thought you were a Big 10 fan. Oh well, I suppose when the Big 10 hasn't beaten Georgia since 1953, you have to take your victories vicariously. No need to "try"; I will simply demonstrate that I am right and you're wrong.

MSU's 6 points in the first half were off of Georgia turnovers. Here are the turnovers as found in SI.com's play by play:

6:28, 1st quarter: Stafford pass to the middle intercepted by Davis-Clark (MSU took over inside the Georgia 10 and kicked a FG)
3:32, 1st quarter: Green fumbles, Allison of Michigan State recovers
7:07, 2nd quarter: Mimbs mishandles a punt snap and is tackled. (MSU took over at the Georgia 39 and kicked a FG)

Those mistakes ended 3 of Georgia's 5 drives in the first half.

In the second half, without the turnovers, Georgia outgained MSU by over 100 yards and outscored them 21-6. Georgia's mistakes kept MSU in the game in the first half. You either didn't watch the game, or you're a moron. Perhaps both. In any case, your contention that MSU "gave Georgia all it could handle" is a good deal closer to clueless than mine.

[Condem]

70. Funny thing, Yellow.

I got nephews in the Atlanta area (Buckwood?) and they've become enthralled with the Iowa program. They where their black and gold Mondays and Fridays win or lose. After we beat Penn State, a dozen kids had the colors on. We are constantly sending Iowa apparel south. Watch out. Georgia's quickly becoming a Hawkeye state.

[GaYellowDawg]

71. Bwah ha ha ha ha!!!

"Georgia's quickly becoming a Hawkeye state."

Not so much. Atlanta isn't a good indicator of what happens across the state. Go 10 miles outside of Atlanta in any direction and it's solid Bulldog country.

[Condem]

72. I forgot to mention Yellow, that the wife ( the happy iowan)...

is Bulldog class of 89(?). Grew up in a small town outside of Athens. We lived in Savannah for a couple of years in the early nineties so we'd always run into Sonny Seiler and UGA in the squares. Wow, what memories. I hate to say it but I like UGA. Great town, great music ( had a chance to meet Stipe and Mills).The only team in the SEC that I can truly appreciate. I look forward to more spirited conversation.

[Condem]

10. What a fuckin joke.

Compare the Big Ten to a mid major. Then have your second best team get stomped on their home field by one. That's a mighty large foot , fellers.

[a la izquierda]

13. Oh, if only Ohio State beats Texas...

I was rooting for Iowa, btw.

[Condem]

17. I'm hoping, michele77

OSU's D has to do it. Turnovers. I'll be rootin for them!

[BOSSHOG]

18. Its apparent that the Big Ten's greatest asset is the weather

but for their supporters to brag about it seems rather pathetic. Their recruits must say, golly I'm a gonna play for the big ten because of the weather.

Geography versus talent and coaching and fans. Helluvan argument.

[trumad]

19. It is kind of funny...

I'd think the SEC with the heat would be far more brutal.

[Capt. America]

23. I think you are missing the arguement that Condem and others were trying to make.

Unless the rest of the nation is pussies, then play football in the goddamn snow like they do in the NFL, in places like GREEN BAY and BUFFALO, in JANUARY. You may be shocked to learn this, but people still show up to watch football in the snow and cold, I watched the hapless Browns fans do it here in Cleveland for a shit team.

Also, don't say that the Big-10 fans are no good. The Big 10 has three stadiums that hold over a hundred thousand that get filled every Saturday. I don't believe any of the SEC teams have stadiums that hold over a hundred thousand.

[mduffy31]

24. I hate to do this because I hate all of this SEC bullshit

but Tennessee's stadium holds over 100,000

[Elwood P Dowd]

26. The SEC leads the nation in attendance

UT's stadium holds over 100,000, plus Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, and South Carolina have stadiums in the 80,000 to 95,000 range.

BTW, I played high school football and it's much easier to adapt to playing in 20-degree weather than it is playing in 95-degree weather with 80% humidity. Send your Big 10 teams down to Alabama or Florida for a late-August game sometime.

[Capt. America]

35. Three stadiums over 100k and the (uggh) winningest program in college football history--the scUM.

[BOSSHOG]

45. And lets not leave out

the Hogs with their rinky dink 75K stadium in a town which is a lot harder to get to then any Big Ten school and yet the Hogs sell out their home games to a bunch of hillbillies in a parsely populated state. Relevance I say, relevance.

[1gobluedem]

49. Late August in the midwest can be just as hot and humid as in the south

And often is. I have sat through 90 degree games in Michigan when the temperature on the field was well over 100 degrees. The point is, though, that northern teams have to adjust for the falling temperatures as the season progresses while the southern and western schools can stick with the same scheme throughout the entire season.

I think the long layoff for Big Ten teams hurts them too. I'd like to see the season end on the same weekend for all Division One schools and then see what happens. It's easier to maintain and edge when you are in competition not just practicing.

[BOSSHOG]

28. Oh I got the point crystal clear

Been reading it here for years. Fans of the big ten argue that their teams can't compete with the SEC in fair weather or domed stadiums. (Oh I know that ain't verbatim but why always the weather as the one and only equalizer?) Why the need for an equalizer? Its your arugment not mine. I could say that Michigan sucked in poor weather this year but that would be a really stupid argument huh? I don't care what the weather conditions are and Its not my position to apologize for the weather where SEC teams are located. I'll keep cheering for the pussies while the Big Ten continues not to have a conference championship game. The pussies have won a few national championships recently huh??

I'm looking at my post and can't see where I mentioned anything about the big ten fans being no good. But I bet they sure do cheer real good in bad weather.

[Capt. America]

34. I'm looking at my post and can't see where I mentioned anything about the big ten fans being no good

"Geography versus talent and coaching and fans. Helluvan argument."

[BOSSHOG]

44. I'm still searching

Where did I post that Big Ten fans were no good?

[Condem]

31. C'mon, BOSS

We're sick of spending our $$$$ to go to these bowls. Why don't you come to us? 32 degrees, today, with some freezing rain. Beautiful.

[Iggo]

27. If the Big 10 has to play in the snow to win games...

...doesn't that mean that they're not very good at football?

[Condem]

32. Iggo

We get cold in November. We have to practice in a bubble for 38 days. Then fly down to some warm spot for a week to get acclimated. Put your warm weather schools in our place. Come on up. The weather's FINE! You'll get used to it.

[Capt. America]

33. Not at all. Perhaps I am need to make my argument clearer. Its not that the SEC is not a great

conference, they are. The last few years they have been the deepest conference. However, I think this year the Big 12 is the deepest, with SEC being number two. I take nothing away from the SEC, they have made some great teams and I think a lot of their success can be attributed to a few things:

1) They really put a lot of cash into their programs. Specifically, they put a lot of cash into their coaches. I read an article recently (I believe was published last year?) that showed the coaches salaries and success as a conference and, you guessed it, both the average and the top salaries in the SEC were the biggest. The bigger salaries tend to bring the better coaches, better coaches win more games. (FYI to those who think that football was invented in the South: Urban Meyer and Les Miles are both Ohio boys). If Indiana wanted to pay 4 million dollars a year for a coach, they could get a Nick Saban type too.

2) Teams in warm weather get to play a more fun-and-gun offense because most of the time they are not being hindered in their play calling or play execution by the weather. Probably a third of the games played in the North during a season prevent or hinder a lot of long ball plays. When the weather gets icky and the ball get slippery, people go to the ground game. Simple as that. This is where the weather becomes a factor in play calling. You and your side are correct when you say that WARM weather with high humidity very well may affect teams that are not used to it, however, WARM weather does not make the ground slippery or the ball blown around. Warm weather does not limit your play calling or the execution of plays.

3) Real simple; the Big 10 needs to recruit better quarterbacks. The Big 12 and the SEC are filled with good quarterbacks and it shows.

[Condem]

36. Captive

They'll never get it because they don't live it. The bowl system has been flawed for its entire history. OK, let's get down to money. Just point spreads.
What's home field advantage worth in the regular season. The big conferences. Seven points. I think that came out a couple of years ago. Oddsmakers in Vegas. So what's home field worth if you haven't played in 42 days? Coming from a cold climate into a warm one? Give me one year where the tables were turned. The SEC and the PAC 10 couldn't handle it.

[Capt. America]

37. Condem

You have a point. Penn State had to travel 2300+ miles and 3 time zones, and USC traveled 11 miles. Of course, USC was the better team. I am not taking anything away from them, they could be in the national championship game. I have to give credit to Penn State, even though the game was out of hand, they played for pride and scored more than the Illini and the Bucks combined.

By the way, congrats to your Hawkeyes. They really showed up. Hell, if they had won a couple of their really close ones during the regular season, they would be in a BCS game. There is a rumor that Ferenz is going to the Browns. I don't believe it for a minute.

[Condem]

40. I'll tell you, Captive, it would be like Benjamin Button for the SEC..

...and Pac-10. Everything they ever knew would be ass backwards. Wait a minute..we have to play at The Big House, the Horseshoe, Beaver Stadium or Kinnick in January? Don't let them fool you for a moment. The stadiums would be packed.. MORE so than the southern stadiums. Even in a blizzard.
Thank you. The Hawks do show up at their bowl game. Everyone under Ferentz, anyway. These rumors surface every year. I'll give the coach credit..He never gives a line of shit like say ahhhhhh, the coach from Alabama. You know. He's got son James who will be a redshirt freshman next year. And another kid in High School. I would say he's staying BUT he's never said he was. Or wasn't. Well see. He is a god in this town. Pure class. Even in losing years. Had the chance to sandbag with him this past summer. Just a gentleman who acknowledges every one around him. Thanks, again.

[BOSSHOG]

46. You don't have to keep making the point

I agree with you. The one and only asset the Big Ten football teams have is the weather. Ain't that pathetic? But sit back and think my friend. How bout a home and home. Michigan in December (oh wait, the Big Ten doesn't play in December does it?) And Baton Rouge in August. Hey if we are gonna make weather the only relevant factor in a college football game then lets do it.

[Captain Hilts]

39. Games played in snow generally have higher ratings than those played in ideal conditions. nt

[Condem]

41. Yes they do, Mookie.

I'd be curious if the players of the cold weather schools would like it. Speaking for Iowa, we love getting out of this shit for a couple of days.

[Iggo]

42. That's like saying...

...the Big 10 teams are pussies because they can't play in warm weather.

And that's just wrong.

[Condem]

43. Nothing wrong with the current bowl system, right Iggo?

Hell, no, condem. As long as they play ALL the games in the south or out west I've got no problem with it. None at all. Who's wrong ,Iggo?

[Iggo]

47. Who said that?

[Condem]

50. Essentially, you did.

That we have to play in snow to win. My point goes alot deeper than that, Iggo. Elements are part of the game. However, in the bowl format they are totally eliminated. We practice in "the bubble" or indoors up until one week before the bowl game. Than fly south to get acclimated to the warm weather. Tell me. Where do the southern and western teams practice? I'll guarantee you this. One thing you don't hear at a SEC or Pac-10 practice. "Hey, coach. It's a little warm today. Can we practice in the bubble?" We are at a disadvantage from the start. My point.

[Iggo]

53. Essentially, I did not.

I despise the bowl system and favor a pure playoff format, with home field advantage and everything.

[Condem]

55. Now, Iggo. If we would have lost our bowl, I'd agree.

Just kidding. I just don't think it'll ever come to pass. Too many obstacles remain. We can only hope.

[Iggo]

65. Yeah.

I think we'll have a viable third political party before we ever see a Division I playoff...lol.

[BOSSHOG]

56. No Condem thats your point and you made it so great that it is now fact

BIG TEN TEAMS CAN ONLY WIN IF THE WEATHER IS IN THEIR FAVOR. PERIOD. And I agree. Obviously the Big Ten has no talent, no coaching talent, no nothing but the weather. If they play an SEC team in anything but a blizzard they'll get their asses kicked. I accept your logic. EXCEPT. What if an SEC team kicks a Big Ten Teams Ass in a blizzard? Or, are you saying that could never ever happen?

SEC fans aren't saying that Big Ten Teams have to play in snow to win, you are.

[Condem]

57. Nice try, BOSS.

The point is that the Bowl system favors warm weather schools. Always has. Always will. Simple. Yet, we smile, drop a bundle of dough for a little warm weather holiday for sixty minutes. I wonder if the situation was reversed, you would.

[Elwood P Dowd]

59. Hey Boss, has he called you a pompous ass and hayseed yet?

"You know something ,Elwood

You are the typical SEC fan. You don't congratulate a team when they beat an SEC team. You find excuses of why they did. You're nothing but a pompous ass. What? Utah could beat just about every Big Ten team on a neutral field. Just your stupid opinion, ya fuckin hayseed. Livin in the redneck south has truly fucked you up. Elwood. You're name fits, thats for sure. Man, what ignorance."

[Condem]

61. Teacher, teacher!

Condem hit me!

[Bluzmann57]

64. Seems to me that there a LOT of Big 10 players in the NFL

And the NFL is the best of the best. Any way to explain that? Maybe that the Big 10(11) is a conference that actually plays basic block and tackle football without the video game offenses? Real defense wins championships. Every Super Bowl champion except one has had a tremendous defense.
And on a somewhat unrelated note, it might be a good thing to watch out for the Big 10 in basketball this year. There is some talent there.

[GaYellowDawg]

67. Yep... about 40 less players than the SEC. Less than the ACC.

Look it up.

[cobalt1999]

73. How many Big 10(11) games were played in the snow this year?

Zero. Same as the SEC & Pac-10.

In fact the Big Ten ends their season early to avoid the cold weather. Pussies.

[Condem]

74. Where the fuck did that come from, cobalt?

You better know your shit before posting. Game time temp at the PSU-Iowa game was 32 degrees. With a howling wind. That cold and wind had a direct effect on the outcome of that game. It's not the 20 degrees currently granted bit for early November, that's cold. We end the season when its over, oh deep one. Not for the cold. I can't believe I even responded to this.

[BOSSHOG]

75. Speaking of one not believing they are responding to a post

How can the weather have "a direct effect on the outcome of that game" when that game was between two Big Ten teams, who per you, the spokesman for the big ten, says that big ten teams kick ass in that weather? It should have been Goliath V Goliath with asses kicked goal line to goal line. In fact the Lions and Hawkeyes should have played naked, the fans should have been naked.

Gosh, I'm so excited to answer a post by someone who knows his shit. I guess Ohio State didn't win their bowl game because of the weather. Please continue to share.

[Condem]

76. What's your point, BOSS?

Is this an attempt at humor?

[cobalt1999]

77. It came from the fact that most Big Ten games are played in warm weather.

You are acting like every Big Ten game is a replica of the Ice Bowl.

The Big Ten teams play from September through November. A vast majority of those games are in warm weather. If you really "know your shit", www.wunderground.com has an nice archive of all weather conditions by location by date....look it up yourself.

The Big Ten teams only play one or two cold weather games per year MAX.

[Condem]

78. Cobalt, you've totally missed the point.

Let me ask you this; BOSS feel free to chime in. Does the current bowl format favor the southern and western schools?

[cobalt1999]

79. Depends.

Does it allow easier travel for Southern and Western teams that get Bowl games in their own backyard? Yes, obviously.

Does it favor Southern & Western teams for BCS bids and the associated money? No. I'd argue the Big Ten gets more BCS bids than they deserve over the PAC-10 (which due to timezone doesn't get the air time and exposure Southern and Midwest teams do).

Does it favor Southern & Western because of weather? Minimally. The Ohio State home game temps this year were as follows...87, 78, 81, 77, 64, 80, 55, 25. Only one game in cold weather.

[Condem]

80. Cobalt, the question was simple. Yes or No.

[cobalt1999]

81. Well, if you don't want to address each point, the answer would be NO.

It favors Southern and Midwest teams and penalizes Western teams. The western teams get fewer bids than they deserve, they get fewer BCS bids, they get less money, and they get less exposure.