Question On Abortion -

[Bobbieo]

From a story from the Jan 25th edition of The Arizona Republic, dateline Jacksonville N.C. – Authorities have determined Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach’s child had not been born at the time of her death, so prosecutors can only charge Cpl Cesar Laurean with one count of murder THEN how can the abortion of a fetus be considered as murder.

[PresidentObama]

1. If abortion is murder, masturbation is genocide. And guilty as charged!

[Bobbieo]

4. Does this legal opinion set a precedent on abortion - it is not murder.

[PresidentObama]

5. Abortion simply isn't murder. Which is the logic behind why he wasn't charged.

[PresidentObama]

6. Abortion simply isn't murder. Which is the logic behind why he wasn't charged.

[waiting for hope]

2. Nice - but, the fundie logic

is not logical. Each state has different laws concerning fetus fratricide, NC states that the child must be born alive. It sucks, but I think life in jail without the possibility for payroll is what he deserves.

[napi21]

3. Right now I think it depends on State Laws. In some States, killing

an unborn fetus IS cosidered murder. THAT'S why the fundies want to get that made into a Fed. Law so it will be murder in EVERY State.

[PresidentObama]

7. How can states say an unborn fetus is life, and charge murder? Boggles the mind.

[Bobbieo]

8. So it does go by state law - I had forgottn that and I can see why the fundies

want it made a federal law.

[China_cat]

9. That's one of the arguments the anti-choice

crowd is using to try to overturn Roe. They don't bother to think that intent and woman's choice is what makes it a baby, not just a fetus (in the mind, not medically). Or that a viable fetus wouldn't have been legally aborted in any state.

If a woman decides to carry a pregnancy...whether to have a child of her own or to release for adoption...and she is murdered, causing the death of the fetus, then there should be 2 counts of murder. Period. A woman past the 2nd trimester of pregnancy should be assumed to have decided to carry the pregnancy, even if she never told anyone that was her intent. If she hadn't wanted to, then she had the options earlier. (And, yes, I know I'm not counting financial considerations, etc into this equation)

[theoldman]

10. Here are my definitions of these terms.

Murder is when you kill someone on purpose but not during a war.
Miscarriage is when the baby dies inside the mother without outside help.
Abortion is when when the fetus is killed before time for it's actual birth. This is why some people consider abortion to be murder.

[Bobbieo]

11. I am so pro-choice but in this case I think that Laurean SOB should be charged with

2 counts of pre-meditated murder which is it apparently was, as he is now being charged with robbery with a dangerous weapon.The indictment states Lauren forced Laurterbach to remove money from her bank account the day before she was murdered.

I know this goes against my logic but that God Damned SOB murdered her and possibly his own child.

[kestrel91316]

12. I think in some states if the fetus has reached viability (can survive

outside the womb) then killing it (other than by legal abortion) is murder. Makes perfect sense to me. As would any law that would make deliberate killing of any WANTED unborn fetus murder.....

[Eileen]

13. Little by little - like boiling a frog in a pot with a candle!

The reason feticide can become murder is because of the leqal fiction which says a fetus is a person for the purposes of the feticide law (much as a corporation is a person for tax purposes). This is a part of the anti-choice incremental erosion of particularly womens rights by making them subservient to a part of their own bodies. A cursory research of the background of such legislation in the USA - where abortion and women's rights are used as a political football - will clearly demonstrate that the legislation is motivated by a backdoor and underhanded attempt to abridge the constitution and establish precedent for fetal personhood.

This insanity is exclusive to the USA. In other countries throughout the world a crime involving feticide is considered an assault on the pregnant woman and the fact she is pregnant is taken into consideration during the sentencing phase of the legal proceedings. Knowingly assaulting a pregnant woman will always result in a harsher penalty. This would be similar to punishing more harshly for cutting off a surgeon's or a concert pianist's fingers than a truck driver's.

It should be noted that the only other country in the world that finds a fetus protection law necessary is India - but for quite a different reason. Since reducing the number of female births is not in the overall interest of the state the Indian law tries to protect against abortion based solely on the gender of the fetus.

The overlap of this legal fiction and legal abortion is apparent. Even in the latter part of the pregnancy if a woman carries a fetus to the nebulous "viability" point and suddenly decides she no longer wants to continue it, and this is a decision not made on a medical imperative, then there is probably good reason to question her reasons (and possibly reasoning ability) and, if appropriate intervene to aid, or appeal to her to reconsider. However the final outcome is, and must always be, her own. Obviously with or without medical intervention there is a good chance of a live delivery may occur and we, as a society, do have sufficient interest from viability on to legislate against infanticide, - if the fetus is 'born' - or unwarranted feticide. There is no rationale however, that makes the fetus, even at this point, not a part of the pregnancy unit (the woman) and therefore not subject to the rights and privileges of the adult, thinking, part of that unit.

- Eileen`s always in process page -


Eileen

[WildClarySage]

14. The reason I think they feel the need to make a second murder charge

is that killing a woman isn't bad enough in their minds. If it's just a woman, he's likely to be minimally punished. But if you add the charge of killing the widdle baby too, then he's an absolute snake and deserves to punished to the fullest extent. Justice for women lags behind justice for the unborn in an awful lot of American's minds.

[Iris]

15. but he could molest the child for years after h/she is born and get 3 or 4 years in jail

nice.