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SydneyBristow Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-11 12:39 AM
Original message
Arguments on Facebook about choice...
Mother of one of my best friends decided to start a facebook status war over "choice" and the "generational" gaps between those who are for choice and against. Tried to reason (maybe that was where I went wrong), say that the "gap" was between those who believe in the right to respect other's views, no matter how "righteous" your own. Got the typical "human rights supporters would give voice to infants who have none". She also decries the world we live in as a morally deprived one. I have stopped short of saying "well guess I deserve to live in this world then, see you in Hell!"

Can I just get an "it's gonna be ok" from y'all? It will help me sleep tonight. Thanks.

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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-11 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. People think hell is where people can do what they want.
That is not accurate. It is not 'doing what you want' that makes sin, it is the things done that are outside of love or that hurt others in society.

So hell isn't a place that a person would party and do what ever they want. It would be where others do what ever they want to the person.

People say they would be happy to go to hell when they hear some of the stuff about what sin is. Most don't know sin is a spiritual not a material concept.

Easiest way to understand it is total chaos, why some like any structure, even if that structure is chaos for many. If you have seen glimpses of complete chaos, where you have to create the order around you to maintain a balance, then you understand the pull to structure some have with a fear of any change. There is a feeling in some that existence is balancing above a pit, and anything they do they fear falling into some area, that can not happen if they hold the order and better concepts in them.

Then anywhere they are can become ordered by own thought, making hell impossible anyways.

But it can be a bit freaky, but without fear, not a problem, nothing in hell is more powerful then any amount of love and better ideas of kindness. Making hell impossible.
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-11 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. Infants are not embryos or fetuses.
The right to privacy is more important than anyone's right to tell someone else what to do. In other words, mind your own business. These church lady busybodies are the worst. And I'd bet good money that quite a few of them had "miscarriages" back in the day. But they are certainly quick to condemn anyone who isn't a hypocrite.
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-11 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. You usually can't get these anti-choice people to say they
would allow a woman to die, rather than have an abortion. You don't see some conservative guy showing off his baby and telling how it was worth losing his wife for it.
If you get them to say they'd allow abortion in cases where the mothers life is in danger, you have them. If that's allowed, there have to be places where it can be done. If the clinics exist, privacy rights assure that, like it or not, abortions are available and it's none of their business why women have them.
Of course you make that case with someone and the next dose of anti-choice preaching they get erases it from their mind, and they are right back where you started.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Actually, I did once read an obituary written by a husband for his wife.
He lauded her for not believing her life was worth more than her baby's and for choosing to forgo cancer treatment. He was grateful for the son she left him with but no word on what her teenaged daughters felt about losing their mother at such a young age.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. OMG this guy needs his photo and info
all over the Internets as a warning to all women. I'll bet he's on eHarmony interviewing her replacement while hustling that old "Oh, Poor Widower" sob story. What a PIG.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. How many OTHER babies could they have had
Edited on Thu Feb-10-11 08:00 PM by HockeyMom
if his wife had lived? Do they every consider that? Maybe that one was meant to be lost so others could be born. That is how I look at it having had an ectopic pg. My daughter would never have been born had that other one lived, or if I had been allowed to DIE along with it.

Maybe there is a grand scheme or plan in this universe, god/goddess/mother nature/whatever, that we humans, including all these "christians", have no clue what it's all above.
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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm betting there is more to that story then was said..
I doubt it was as simple as either A.) have the baby, refuse chemo, and die
B.)get an abortion, have chemo and live 80 years

Maybe even with treatment she could've had a year. We don't know.
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May Hamm Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-09-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. They won't say it because they just do not believe it

Pro lifers simply do not believe that women die from pregnancy.

They KNOW there is some other reason in what the see as an extremely remote instance of a woman dying in childbirth or from other complications. Mostly the reason they are willing to go with is that the mother was too stupid to go to the doctor at the right time. Then they will go with the doctor being too stupid to give her the correct treatment thus causing the death. It's always somebody's fault. It is never the predictable result of a diagnosed condition.
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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. are you saying most pregnancy deaths are from pre-diagnosed
Issues? As in pre-pregnancy?

Most child birth deaths are caused by deep vein thrombosis and high blood pressure

It is pretty treatable in most cases. Lack of prenatal care plays a big part. Planned Parenthood is essential to the life of mothers and babies so it is dumb "pro-life" attacks them.
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SydneyBristow Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-11 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's actually interesting, because I was trying to make a different argument.
This woman was accusing the younger generations of making this a sad world because we don't recognize the sanctity of life. I was trying to steer away from the abortion discussion and make her recognize that the differences between the generations, imo, are that mine is more tolerant of a differing viewpoint, no matter how hard they may disagree. There are many 60 year olds who are pro-choice and many 20 year olds who are pro-life. That went over her head, last measured at a mile, but she did a good job at offending my humanity and womanhood while she continued on her rant. I think she gets another response, then I'm done...

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Is she saying older are pro-choice or anti-choice, which are younger?
I find people of all ages on all sides. The part I see age coming into it is younger people have lived only under Roe v Wade, don't know what it was like before that. I agree that a big part of the gap is respecting others views.

Good luck and it can be very difficult to argue with people. If there is a Hell, I am going to have a good time there with all my friends, cannot imagine such a boring afterlife as sitting on clouds playing harps. Blech.
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Green_Lantern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. my controversial response...
ABORTION IS MURDER...just kidding

I'd ask her: "If the world is evil and corrupts people wouldn't abortion just send the baby to heaven and avoid corrupting it?"

I'm not seriously advocating that but still the issue in being pro-choice isn't abortion it is allowing women to have children or not having children by choice rather than being stuck.
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