but I really don't know what you're saying here.
That study is for preemies, not the usual 26-week fetuses.What is a "usual" fetus? Why is a 26-week fetus a "usual fetus"? Does a study indicating that premature infants do not experience pain sensation at a certain state of development suggest that fetuses at the same stage of development do?
Your previous post said:
This is opposite to claiming that pain starts at 35 weeks. It would move pain to 28 weeks at latest, but actually says nothing about when pain starts.This simply made no sense and was not what the study said. Nothing "moved pain to 28 weeks at latest". The study "moved pain to 35 weeks at the earliest", if anything.
You bolded this passage in your previous post:
The consensus scientific position puts this neonatal perception at 24 to 26 weeks. The establishment of thalamocortical connections (at about 26 weeks) is the critical development event that enables routing of pain impulses to the brain.Is that quoted from somewhere or is that your words?
What is the point there? How does the stage at which a "critical development" that "enables" something occurs refute a finding that a certain
response only occurs at a different point?
The abstract of the study says:
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2811%2900885-2?script=trueA Shift in Sensory Processing that Enables the Developing Human Brain to Discriminate Touch from Pain
... We show a transition in brain response following tactile and noxious stimulation from nonspecific, evenly dispersed neuronal bursts to modality-specific, localized, evoked potentials. The results suggest that specific neural circuits necessary for discrimination between touch and nociception emerge from 35–37 weeks gestation in the human brain.
There really isn't anything ambiguous about that and I really still don't know what point you are making.
You say:
I address development at 26 weeks as the thalamocortical connections come into play.I'm sorry, but: ... yes? ... so?
No one seems to be having any trouble interpreting the published results:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110908124136.htm... In the premature babies the EEG recorded a response to the heel lance of non-specific 'neuronal bursts' -- general bursts of electrical activity in the brain. After 35-37 weeks the babies' response changed to localised activity in specific areas of the brain, indicating that they were now perceiving painful stimulation as separate to touch.
Dr Lorenzo Fabrizi, lead author of the paper from UCL Neuroscience, Physiology and Pharmacology, said: "We are asking a fundamental question about human development in this study -- when do babies start to distinguish between sensations? In very young brains all stimulations are followed by 'bursts' of activity, but at a critical time in development babies start to respond with activity specific to the type of stimulation."
Dr Fabrizi added: "Of course, babies cannot tell us how they feel, so it is impossible to know what babies actually experience. We cannot say that before this change in brain activity they don't feel pain."
Previous studies have shown that there is a similar shift from neuronal bursts to evoked potentials in the visual system at this time, suggesting that 35-37 weeks is a time when important neural connections are formed between different parts of the brain. ...
And here is some relevance to reproductive rights:
http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/unborn-child-pain-awareness-act-unaware-pain-discrimination-begins-week-35According to scientists, recent results show that the human brain may first begin to discriminate touch from pain during weeks 35 37 of gestation in the human fetus. However, anti-abortion activists have contended that a fetus can feel pain as early as week 20 of gestation. Bills by like-minded legislators have been and still are under consideration by Congress to attempt to put into law the stipulation that before receiving an abortion, a woman must be advised that an abortion procedure will cause pain to her fetus. This bill is currently under the title “Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act of 2011.”
... According to a press release from the office of Senator Johanns when he introduced the bill to Congress last year, “Medical research has taken a quantum leap forward in recognizing that unborn children feel pain. It is time to acknowledge this reality in law and in practice,” said Johanns. “This is not a pro-life or pro-abortion issue; it is an issue of human compassion. My legislation simply says mothers have a right to be informed and to show compassion by requesting pain medicine for their babies if they do not choose life. States are leading the way by passing similar legislation and we, as a civilized nation, should do the same.”
Women have a right not to be lied to by their governments in an effort to interfere in their exercise of their rights, actually.
You say:
Btw: the 20-weeks limit by state governments is erroneous. They're playing to the grandstands.and so if 20 weeks is erroneous, what is not?
The answer, if we are talking about a limit on access to abortion based on fetal pain perception, is 35 weeks, right?