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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:23 AM
Original message
Regents Plan New Route to Master’s in Teaching
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 10:23 AM by tonysam
Time to legalize degree mills, which is what this is. Of course many of these "graduates" from these phony programs will be principals--God forbid.

The New York State Board of Regents voted unanimously on Tuesday to approve a pilot program that would allow educational groups like Teach for America to create their own master’s degree programs, a role long reserved for education schools.


The board’s move reflects the difficulty of placing teachers in low-income communities, and a growing recognition of the effectiveness of alternative paths to teaching. In the federal education grant program Race to the Top, points are given to states that provide “high-quality pathways for aspiring teachers and principals,” including “allowing alternative routes to certification.”

Currently, programs like Teach for America, which recruits heavily among recent college graduates, and New York City Teaching Fellows, which attracts young professionals seeking to change careers, must become partners with education schools. Participants begin teaching almost immediately, pursing a master’s degree in their free time at the education schools.

Under the pilot, the Board of Regents will invite groups like Teach for America to create their own master’s programs. The programs would need to have a strong emphasis on practical teaching skills, a nod to criticisms that traditional education schools spend too much time on theory. The Board of Regents would actually award the degree to the teacher, who would commit to a high-needs school for four years.



NYT


These kids in the poorer schools need VETERAN, experienced teachers, not Ivy League bimbos who think "teaching" is akin to the Peace Corps.

Well, I think the deskilling of teaching is accelerating at a rapid pace.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not meaning to question everything you assert, but I do have some questions.
1. What's wrong with the Peace Corps? Is it not possible for people to have very sincere reasons for wanting to join the Peace Corps?

2. Why do you characterize all those who join Teach for America as "Ivy League bimbos"? First of all, are they really all from the Ivy League? Second, does being from the Ivy League automatically make them bad? Third, are they all really "bimbos"? Aren't there any intelligent ones?

3. Why do you assert that kids in poorer schools can learn only from "VETERAN, experienced" teachers? Have they acquired experience that will aid them in ways that no one who is just learning to teach can possibly know?

4. You seem to be making the assumption that people who join Teach for America are not serious about teaching, but look upon it as some kind of lark, or as if it is easy to learn. Is this really true of these people? I have a friend who seriously considered joining Teach for America, and she was not considering it because she thought it would be a lark or easy, but because she was seriously reconsidering her career path after having earned another type of college degree. (For the record, she does not have an Ivy League degree and she is the exact opposite of a "bimbo.") She was beginning to think teaching might really be her calling, yet she found the thought of going back to school for a second set of degrees both temporally and financially daunting. Is the only answer to someone who thinks like her "Suck it up, pay the tuition and go back to school--the only way you can be a truly effective teacher is to earn the degrees"?

I ask these questions in true sincerity, and not just to attack your opinions. I gather that you yourself are one of these "VETERAN, experienced teachers" and that you feel threatened by others being able to take jobs in your profession after only a short period of non-degreed training. I sympathize with you to some extent because I earned two journalism degrees only to watch the world begin to explode, years later, with blogs written by "citizen journalists" with no training or background in the journalistic principles I had learned. Yet I realize that the First Amendment protects these people; it's their right to put out whatever they please, no matter how ignorant or poorly sourced, because there is no licensing for journalists and no program in place to protect the public from incompetent journalism. It doesn't, however, keep me from deploring some of what I see out there calling itself "journalism."

If Teach for America and New York Teaching Fellows created actual master's degree programs, how would it even be possible for "Ivy League bimbos" to complete them? Wouldn't they require a certain degree of commitment and intelligence, and wouldn't they produce graduates just as qualified and competent as those of other master's programs? Or are you assuming they would be by definition "dumbed down" so that one would not need to possess teaching ability or knowledge in order to complete them?

Again, I'm asking these questions in all sincerity because I want to know the answer. I admit I am not sure that offering people who have degrees in something else, but feel a calling to teaching later in their lives, a means of achieving that goal without having to start over and earn a bachelor's and a master's in education is a bad thing.

Please, enlighten me. Educate me.

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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If you can't figure it out, then there is nothing I can do to help you
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 02:31 PM by tonysam
Do you think anybody should be a doctor or a lawyer and not have to go to medical school or law school to do it? Apparently not, but you seem to believe any piece of stupid shit can go in and teach kids in a classroom and not have to take education courses on theory--which are NECESSARY for somebody to understand HOW kids learn and WHAT teachers need to know to help kids. It's not something you can just watch somebody else do and then imitate it. But what the hell, it's an easy job, as you seem to think.

Of course you are questioning everything I write; after all, I DO know what I am talking about, having been in the meat grinder called public education and having actually researched the subject and the attempts to destroy public ed.

PEOPLE WITH FUCKING DIPLOMAS FROM DEGREE MILLS DON'T BELONG IN THE CLASSROOM, GET IT? Teaching kids is at least as important as practicing medicine or law.

Do I have to spell it out for you? I'll let Lois Weiner, who knows this subject in and out, explain what is REALLY going on:

Lois Weiner: No, but listen to what I say, Diane. Where we’re going to disagree – and I want to also state what we agree about – I agree with everything that Diane just said. Every single thing. She laid out in such a way that I don’t have to repeat it, the effects of this disastrous educational policy for the last 10 years. She laid it out. I’m not going to repeat what she said, and I have no criticism with what she said.

And I want to point out that Diane and I, in her recent book, Diane and I agree with the need to defend democratic civic purposes of education, the need for teacher unions, the need for educational equality, and education’s role in promoting social mobility. Those are things that Diane talks about in her book, and I absolutely agree with her 100%, about those aims. What I’m going to suggest, though, is that Diane’s analysis about how we got to this point is flawed. And that if we are going to defend public education, we need to have a very different analysis. And so the analysis that I’m going to offer tonight, I think, takes two sets of blinders off – that we have to take off.

The first set of blinders separates educational reform from what’s going on in the economy. The other set of blinders says that we can look at education in this country separately from what goes on in the rest of the world. Because what I’m going to lay out tonight for you is a perspective that says NCLB, all these policies that Diane just described, are neoliberalism coming home. They are policies that were imposed for the first time under Pinochet – under Pinochet. Next in Argentina. Next in Uruguay. Throughout all of Latin America and Central America. And when I spoke about this at a conference in London about a year and a half ago, I said, “Every country in the world has enacted these policies.”

Stephen Ball, who wrote a great report on privatization globally for the Education International, corrected me. Very politely in private. And he said, “Lois, it’s not every country in the world – It’s not Finland or North Korea.”

So let us understand that this is a global project that began 40 years ago, was tested, refined – if you want to use that word – imposed on Africa, Asia, and Latin America by the World Bank. Why? Because developing countries wanted aid. If they wanted aid, they had to undergo economic restructuring AND educational reform.

So what were the contours of that – what were the contours – what were the contours of that neoliberal project? And I’m going to talk in a minute about what neoliberalism is. Because I think that in her book, Diane grapples with this concept, but she doesn’t face it head on. And I think that we need to understand what the project is and where it comes from.

What’s the project? Here are the contours: Privatization, fragmentation of oversight and regulation and creation of individual schools, standardized testing, and assault on teachers’ unions. Those are the 4 pillars of this project.

* Privatization: Commodification, marketization of education, Diane describes that.
* Fragmentation: Elimination of the regulatory mechanisms. So that now we have fragmentation, regulation devolves to an individual school; that’s charter schools. In the UK they’re called ‘academies.’ In Sweden they’re called ‘charter schools.’ All over the world, except for Finland and North Korea – China included – China has charter schools. China has charter schools.
* Standardized testing: You eliminate a regulatory framework, how do you gauge “accountability?” Standardized tests. Standardized tests are, for the most part, created by for-profit companies who market the textbooks and who market professional development. Do you see how it’s a web? Everybody see how it’s a web? Standardized tests, well if that’s the only accountability measure, that means teachers are measured by standardized tests. Merit pay. Well, if you have merit pay, you don’t need to have teachers who have a lot of education or a lot of experience because the only thing that you pay them by is the kids’ test scores.
* And finally, what is THE greatest barrier? THE greatest barrier. Most potentially, most powerful, an existing barrier to this program? Teachers’ unions. And now we have to understand that’s the reason, every day in the paper, we read about bad teachers and how the unions defend them. That is the reason. Because teacher unions globally are standing in the way of this project.

And I can only say I have so much to say about this, I edited a book of essays. And I really hope you’ll read it. You will read teachers’ stories from all over the world describing this project, and the resistance to it.

OK. So let me get back to this issue of the neoliberalism, which Diane doesn’t talk about. And I hope that she will. And I hope that she will think about it because in the book, Diane says a couple of really very interesting things. She says she and others were, quote, “…caught up in the wave of enthusiasm for market reforms.” That’s on page 127. And she says that this was a “new thinking” on page 9. But you see, when that occurred it wasn’t new. It had already been implemented for 20 years. Already been implemented globally.

And in fact, the Merrill Lynch report – see this was all in the business pages. If you wanted to know what was going on in education you had to read the business pages and prospectus. Because Merrill Lynch report April 9, 1999 <“The Book of Knowledge: Investing in the Growing Education and Training Industry”> said, “A new mindset is necessary, one that views families as customers, schools as, quote, ‘retail outlets’ where educational services are received, and the school board as a customer service department that hears and addresses parental concerns. As a near monopoly, schools escape the strongest incentives to respond to their customers. And what is the strongest incentive? The discipline of the market.” That’s 1999. And Diane was in the administration that was caught up in a wave of enthusiasm about the market reforms.

So, now I want to unpack – I want to unpack for you this neoliberal ideology. And if you really want to understand it, you can’t listen to what’s being said in this country. You have to go to the way that the World Bank talks about it. Because in the World Bank documents, they present it in it’s unvarnished form. So I’m gonna quote for you from something called – I’m gonna explain what’s in this chilling World Bank document, The World Development Report 2002. And, of course they don’t use this exact language, but this is the analysis.

The analysis is the following: The market is the best regulator of all services, and the state, the welfare state causes problems by intruding on free choice. Next, the global economy requires that workers from every country compete with others for jobs. And since most people will be competing with workers in other countries for jobs requiring little formal education, money spent on a highly educated workforce is wasted. In other words, most jobs are in Walmarts. You know that. You know that; that’s the level of education – seventh or eighth grade. And the plan is – they say this in this document – we’re all going to be competing for these jobs that require a seventh or eighth grade education. Not all of us, of course. Some people are not. Therefore, money spent on education is wasted. It should be spent on other things: on dams, on roads, on health care. Of course they don’t spend it on dams, or roads, or health care. But that’s what they say in this report.

And think about this, because we don’t need a highly educated workforce, we don’t need highly educated teachers. Therefore, we can have a teaching force that’s a revolving door. Teachers will use standardized scripts. Kids will be educated to a seventh or an eighth grade level. And that’s OK! That’s OK! In fact, not only is it OK; that’s what we should be doing. And then in this report, it says, What’s the biggest barrier to carrying out this program? Well, with their political power, teachers and doctors capture governments and protect their incomes when there is pressure for budget cuts.

So understand that the de-professionalization of teaching that Diane talks about is NOT an accident. It is planned. It is planned to replace us. It is planned to limit access to higher education. That’s what this is all about. And you only have to look at the record in the rest of the world, and you see what is planned for us.


You know these firings in Rhode Island? You know these firings in Rhode Island? That Bush and Obama and Duncan have supported? The World Development Report 2002 applauds the firings in Benin and Senegal of the teachers. They applaud it. And they say that’s what’s gonna happen. That’s what we want. So, we all really need to understand that the neoliberal agenda has come home to us. It is a project; some people would say that it’s a conspiracy. I wouldn’t say it’s a conspiracy. You know why? Because conspiracies are secret. This isn’t secret! This isn’t secret.

The final thing I want to talk about is Democrats for Education Reform, and I’m sorry Diane isn’t here to hear me say this. Democrats for Education Reform now hosts, on tour, Rick Hess from the American Enterprise Institute. It’s now on their website. We all need to understand that Obama’s education policy comes from Democrats for Education Reform. There’s no difference. That means that the Obama education policy is lifted, from whole cloth, from what used to be called a far-right think tank. I think Diane flatters them, or fools herself by calling them a conservative think tank. You know. But now, they’re in the Democratic Party! They’re the leadership of the Democratic Party when it comes to education policy. Listen, we are in deep doo doo. We are in real deep doo doo.

And I’m just gonna say that in Diane’s book, and I’m really sorry she’s not here to hear this. In Diane’s book, she has this quote from her book, The Revisionists Revised, and she says she’s still right, she argued that, “The public schools had not been devised by scheming capitalists to impose social control on an unwilling proletariat to reproduce social inequality. The schools were never an instrument of cultural repression, as the radical critics maintain.” That’s what Diane says in The Revisionists Revised.

Well, you know what? Maybe we can argue about 150 years ago when the public schools were created, but there is no argument now; that is the agenda.


I have no more to say to you. There are threads galore in DU and outside links galore which I have put up, which Madfloridian and others have put up, to "educate" you. I don't believe you are a bit interested in the truth because you are in favor of charters and other schemes to destroy public ed.

And teaching is not a fucking Peace Corps assignment, two years and out. Teaching is a CAREER, not a volunteer program. The BEST, the most SENIOR teachers need to be in at-risk schools, not some dumb shit kids out of Ivy League schools who debase the profession of teaching by reducing it to a revolving door bit of crap. It's just an insult to anybody who has actually done the grunt work of getting traditional degrees and actually working in the schools.

This isn't about the nonsense of a "calling" but is a way for districts to save money by undercutting tenured teachers with these revolving-door types. That's all TFA is. And they get taxpayer money for their scheme to undercut public education and teachers.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Wow, what a bunch of verbal vomit you just spewed there!
"Do you think anybody should be a doctor or a lawyer and not have to go to medical school or law school to do it?"

No! But I don't think people who decide, say, at age 25, or age 35, that they want to be a doctor or a lawyer should be told "No! Can't do it! If you didn't decide back when you were 18 and earning your bachelor's degree that you wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer, it's too late now!" Or be told "Now you will have to go back to college and earn a four-year bachelor's degree in some appropriate major, PLUS spend years in law/med school, PLUS spend years in residency (if you want to be a doctor) to get there."

Then you say "Apparently not, but you seem to believe any piece of stupid shit can go in and teach kids in a classroom and not have to take education courses on theory--which are NECESSARY for somebody to understand HOW kids learn and WHAT teachers need to know to help kids."

Please don't cram words in my mouth. I don't believe "any piece of stupid shit" can teach kids. I DO, however, believe that it may well indeed be possible for people to become good teachers WHILE being educated and certified to do so, in a more efficient way than our society has done in the past.

I also did not say "it's an easy job." Nor, that it isn't important. Again, please do not cram words into my mouth that I never said.

You say "Of course you are questioning everything I write; after all, I DO know what I am talking about, having been in the meat grinder called public education and having actually researched the subject and the attempts to destroy public ed."

Oh, I see. I cannot even ask an honest question of you based on your (presumed) superior knowledge and experience, asking for an honest answer, without your hackles rising and your becoming defensive, angry and furious with me.

My, you must be a wonderful teacher!

"Um, Teach, could you explain how--"

"SHUT UP!!!!! HOW DARE YOU DENIGRATE MY EXPERTISE, YOU SNIVELING LITTLE SHIT!!!!"

You have failed to provide any evidence that Teach for America is the "degree mill" of which you speak. You can quote this Lois Weiner, whoever she is, until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't prove your point either. Frankly, I question how well you can argue if all you can do is quote lengthy paragraph after paragraph of what somebody else said.

You say "I don't believe you are a bit interested in the truth because you are in favor of charters and other schemes to destroy public ed." Where the hell did you get THAT idea from? You don't even KNOW me! And I have NEVER made a post here, EVER, declaring myself in favor of charter schools! In fact, I doubt I have made many posts here about education at all!

You also say "teaching is not a fucking Peace Corps assignment, two years and out." First of all, that shows very little respect for the Peace Corps and what it does, and second, what about the people who teach for a few years and then decide to stick around and make a real commitment to it as a career? What if it's not a "revolving door" for them?

Why do you characterize anyone who comes to teaching in other than the conventional way as "some dumb shit kids"? I have a friend who discussed with me the fact that she was contemplating Teach for America. She is NOT a "dumb shit kid." She's very smart, and she is having second thoughts about her career and thinking teaching might be the way to go. I told her not to assume it's all Mr. Chips and To Sir with Love, to consider it very seriously before she goes ahead. My mother never had a chance to get the kind of education she would have needed to become a teacher, but I'm sure she would have been a great one had she had the opportunity to do it in a way she could better have fit into her working life and her finances.

And what is this thing about you having to characterize them as all coming out of "Ivy League schools"? What have you got against Ivy League schools, for one? For another, why do you say they all come out of Ivy League schools? My mother never went to college at all, and my friend graduated from a state university.

Finally: You think having a "calling" to be a teacher is "nonsense"? Now I really question your commitment. I don't believe tenured teachers should be undercut--I am against any attempt to shortchange the value and the work teachers do and their compensation for it--but I think you are mischaracterizing alternative certification programs as all doing that, and I question this. I question it because of your proven tendency to do things like quote other people at length instead of arguing your own points, scream, exaggerate and namecall rather than using facts, statistics, logic and examples to make your case. I question it because you seem so threatened by the idea that anyone else might have a sincere desire to do what you do, and be fully committed to it, yet attempt to do it in some way other than you did it, that you will scream and kick and thrash and cry and pound your fists on the floor about how WAAAAAAAH IT'S NOT FAAAAAAAAIR THAT THOSE SHITHEADS SHOULD THINK THEY ARE MY EQUAL!!!!!!!!! rather than presenting a mature argument about it.

In short, I don't know what you're like in a classroom, but on DU, you're one lousy teacher.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-22-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Lois Weiner - Ivy Leaguer & alternatively certified to teach...
and advocated for alternative methods of teacher training . . .

1968-1969
University of Stockholm
Study in political science, Swedish language

1970 University of California, Berkeley
B.A., Journalism; minor-social movements


1973 California State University,
Teaching preparation (as in an alternative teaching certification program)

(TAUGHT AT: 1973-1978 Hayward Unified School District, Hayward, CA Mount Eden High School, English department)


1978-79 Columbia University, Teachers College
M.A., Teaching of English, 1978-1979

September 1988-March 1991
Harvard University Graduate School of Education
Ed.D. Department of Teaching, Curriculum and Learning Environments, .



*****
Asking the right questions: An analytic framework for reform of urban teacher education
Journal The Urban Review
Publisher Springer Netherlands
ISSN 0042-0972 (Print) 1573-1960 (Online)
Issue Volume 21, Number 3 / September, 1989
Lois Weiner1
Abstract The second wave of educational excellence reforms has focused on improving teaching and teacher education to restore the nation's economic and industrial health and to reduce poverty in the inner cities. The author examines the theoretical underpinning of the conventional linkage between urban poverty, urban education, and urban teacher education, and suggests an alternative framework. An effective program to train urban teachers must address the bureaucratic conditions that sabotage students and teachers' success and encourage mutually respectful relationships among urban schooling's constituents.

*****

I'm not SURE what exactly is in this article by Lois as I can't get a full copy - just an abstract - but there seem to be a whole lot of references to it by people supporting alternative methods of getting teachers into the classroom. . .

ERIC #: EJ419441
Title: Preparing the Brightest for Urban Schools.
Authors: Weiner, Lois
Descriptors: Education Majors; Qualitative Research; Secondary Schools; Student Motivation; Student Teacher Attitudes; Student Teaching; Teaching (Occupation); Teaching Conditions; Urban Schools
Source: Urban Education, v25 n3 p258-73 Oct 1990
Publication Date: 1990

Abstract:
A brief narrative description of the journal article, document, or resource. Reports on a qualitative study of the effects of student teaching in urban secondary schools on the motivation of student teachers. Concludes that the demands of teaching in urban schools may discourage many talented but idealistic liberal arts graduates from pursuing a teaching career. (FMW)


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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. FALSE: looks like you added that to her resume.
Edited on Fri Apr-23-10 07:13 AM by Hannah Bell
http://faculty.njcu.edu/lweiner/cv05.htm

already having a BA & going back to an accredited university's ed dept to pick up ed credits to become accredited to teach ain't "alternative certification".

Cal State Hayward:

The university was established in 1957 as State College for Alameda County...The university is best known for its College of Business and Economics; a strong Education Department, where a large percentage of California teachers receive their certification...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_University,_East_Bay.

article by someone teaching in the ed dept when it was still california state college hayward:

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=LRGQ5l1LHqfFNVK2McGSsY2PCNQcDvZ8yV5c5DZPfjXpRXZ1c4W1!1693057780!1997751604?docId=5006413384


she took the education credits required to teach in the state of california.



got any more fake info for us?


A Lethal Threat to U.S. Teacher Education
Lois Weiner
New Jersey City University

Dramatic changes are being made to teacher education internationally and in the United States. Some of the alterations have been recognized as threatening university-based teacher preparation, for instance, the growth of alternate route programs.

Many other phenomena that have an impact on teacher education have not been analyzed as such, including for-profit corporations' development of professional development services linked to raising students' standardized test scores and the entry of private, for-profit institutions into the market for higher education.

The challenge to teacher education's commitment to social justice has been debated, but its relationship to the other alterations being made to public education has not been explored.

Moreover, the common origins of these phenomena and their synergistic impact have been inadequately studied, as have the implications of this synergy for university-based teacher education in the near future.

http://jte.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/58/4/274


Dr. Lois Weiner To Speak on Radical Teacher Unionism (Tues, Apr 13th)

"The assault on Chicago's teachers and public schools: Understanding the attack and working to stop it" With Chicago Public Schools CEO Ron Huberman threatening to cut many programs next school year, raise class size to 37 pupils, impose a pay freeze and reduce the teachers pension, it is more important than ever to understand the local and global forces arrayed against teachers and their unions. Event will be held Tuesday, April 13th at 5:30pm at King College Prep High School. For additional information, please see the attached flyer and website - http://www.uic.edu/educ/ceje/news.html


Susan Ohanian, who has been writing about this stuff for over well over a decade, commented:

I agree with Lois Weiner that we should applaud much of Diane Ravitch's critique of school reform in Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice ARe Undermining Education. I think her book is on target with many valuable insights in the New York City and San Diego chapters and mostly on target about the Billionaire's Club. But I also agree with Lois that what is missing is a critique of liberalism and an exposure of the savagery of capitalism.

http://ednotesonline.blogspot.com/2010/04/lois-weiner-whats-right-and-wrong-in.html



oh, & fyi: ivy leaguer = undergrad degree

grad school is a different ball game




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drweinerlo Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. My CV - and certification to teach
The facts: I received my certification to teach in California in a regular teacher ed program - Cal State Hayward - where I did student teaching (in Oakland HS). My CV has been doctored in the previous post. (Shameful behavior that would cause the writer to fail any rigorous high school class.) To learn my opinion about alternate route programs, do read my book "Urban Teaching: The Essentials." I also earned degrees from UC Berkeley (Go Bears!); Teachers College, Columbia University; and Harvard Graduate School of Education. But don't let that persuade you of anything! Look at where many of these crooks on Wall Street were educated! To find out what I think and why, do read my publications my blog(s) on New Politics (http://newpol.org/)
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. That's not what reads in your bios, "doc"...
I graduated with the highest GPA in the graduating class at NC State in 2002. Don't think I'd be failing much of anything.

However, if I what I posted is incorrect, then I sincerely apologize. I can only go by what I've read about you, not know you. I did go back to available bio information as far back as your earliest publications. Maybe you want to review what was said about you decades ago? I'm not going back to re-research it but the info is out there that you had a "teaching certificate" not a teaching degree.

A "teaching certification" program is not getting a degree in "education" from what I've been told. Are you saying it's not? Is your "teaching certificate" a four-year education degree for teaching? If so, then there is info on the net about you that says otherwise.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. A formal apology to Dr. Weiner:
Edited on Sat May-01-10 08:31 AM by mzteris
I evidently did misunderstand that her "teaching certification" was part of a teaching degree. The terminology is what threw me.

I was not trying to "falsify" her CV, I was "commenting" on it - thus the parentheses (as most Du'ers recognize, I think). My comment was WRONG, and I apologize.

I did want to ascertain that the poster was who she said she was ('cause you never know who's a sockpuppet around here. lol) She has written me - personally - to state that it was. And I explained my "comment".

(However, I do still disagree with some of her positions.... ;) )

edit...
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Wow! I love the Alliance's questions for the politicians!
Another is the Anti-Academies Alliance in the UK. “Academies” are UK charter schools, and the Alliance, supported by the National Union of Teachers, is doing grassroots organizing from which we can and should learn.The Alliance has developed questions to put to candidates in the general election. Just change the names of the operators of the schools and you have wonderful talking points.

1. Do you agree that state schools should be accountable to democratically elected representatives of the communities they serve and not to unaccountable private sponsors or providers?

2. Given their patchy performance and the high cost of establishing academies, do you agree with the independent think tank Civitas that there should be a freeze of the Academies programme while an evaluation is carried out of its successes and failures?

3.Do you agree that public funding of our schools should all be spent on educating our children rather than contributing to the profits of private educational providers like GEMS, Edison and Lilac Skies, paid to provide "outsourced" services to state schools?

4. If elected as an MP, do you promise that you will vote against any proposal to allow so-called "free" schools to be run for a profit?

http://newpol.org/node/296
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. you might like this:
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-10 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. you just put anything that counters your BS on "ignore"
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Countering it isn't in the job description
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tortoise1956 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. If you think there is a problem with this idea, you might not want to read this...
Any program would still have to be fully accredited by the New York Board of Regents, which has (from everything I have heard and read about them for more than 30 years) not been a "Diploma Mill."

Frankly, when it comes to teaching, I always deferred to my mother. She spent more than 30 years teaching in California, both in private and public schools. She started as an elementary school teacher and finished her career teaching educationally and emotionally handicapped children between the ages of 7 and 13. She always considered it to be a personal failure if all her children did not improve their skills by at least 1 full grade. She taught until the age of 75 (1995), well past the normal retirement age, because the school district begged her to stay on. She received her doctorate (ThD) through an "alternative" program, which I'm sure you would frown on. (BTW, one of the reasons she studied theology was so that she would be better equipped to argue religion with fundamentalists and other fanatics.)

Even thought she quit teaching in 1995, and died in 2004, when I visit my home town I still occasionally have someone come up to me, introduce themselves as an old student of hers, and ask how she is doing. She influenced many lives, and apparently it was for the better.

Her biggest problem with the teachers coming out of the Education schools was that they were heavy on theory and woefully light on practice. She also believed that the shift away from teaching the mechanics of subjects (such as memorization and repetition) resulted in kids not being able to learn as well. A large part of her success in helping her special kids was due to making sure they understood the basics first, and then building on that. That meant deviating from the approved curriculum. She was allowed to do this because her methods worked better than the "approved" curriculum.

I am pretty sure she would have no problem with alternative programs as long as they are fully accredited and properly administered. Evidently the traditional path isn't working as well as it should, as evidenced by the fact that children today can graduate from high school with minimal reading and math skills, and even honor students are ending up having to take remedial college classes.

Give it 5 years and see what the result is. It may surprise you...

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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Sure. Read the World Bank report on education
TFA is a bullshit program designed to undermine unions and public education. You think a teacher should be dumped in a classroom without much in the way of formal training? You're out of your mind.

Their proposed "master's" degree program is a degree mill because TFA is not an academic outfit, a college or university.

I prepared a LOT in the regular classroom as well as at the university. What you mother told you is the same horseshit the right has promulgated for YEARS, and the only reason the privatizers say it is that they want to completely deskill teaching to the point any idiot off the street can do it. It happens in third world countries, and it is about to happen in the United States and other industrialized countries.
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tortoise1956 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Although I respect most teachers,
Edited on Thu Apr-29-10 11:34 PM by tortoise1956
I am calling BS on you, Tonysam. My mother was liked by her students, respected by her peers, and her services were in high demand in the school district she worked in, as evidenced by the fact that they continued to let her teach well past retirement age (75, to be exact). All this while teaching "problem children", too. How much of that applies to you?

As far as the state of public education in this country, I provide for your pleasure the following anecdotes from personal experience:
1.My stepdaughter, who has one of the strongest work ethics I have ever seen, graduated second in her high school class (her best friend beat her out by less than .02 grade points). She maxed out the number of advanced and college prep classes she could take. When she enrolled at UNLV, her test scores showed that she needed to take remedial English to prepare her for college work.
2. My office mate for many years decided to look into getting teacher certification in Nevada. Although he was a retired USAF officer with two Masters (Engineering and Statistics), and had taught statistics courses at CSN for more than 5 years, he was told in writing that he needed to have 1100 hours of teaching time as a substitute before he would qualify for full credentials, in lieu of an education degree. This was in 1999 or 2000, if I recall. The district wasn't interested in hiring a very well educated individual with actual classroom teaching experience.
3. I volunteer as a youth bowling coach,working with children from 6-18 years old. I am constantly amazed at kids in their teens who literally can't add bowling scores up without a calculator. This is the math that I and my peers were taught by the end of seventh grade. The kids aren't dumb, they have been shortchanged by the education system.

As far as your diploma mill crap, I refer you to the following website:

<http://tfa.gse.upenn.edu/subnav/faqs.html>

I believe that the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education is more than a diploma mill. Of course, I could be wrong...

I am guessing at this, but it seems that your main objections to TFA have nothing to do with putting inexperienced teachers in high-risk schools. Clark County School District teachers with less seniority usually end up in the high-risk schools, based on what my friends who are teachers tell me. TFA, while it may not be a traditional pedagogy curriculum, is working with some very well respected institutions, so the diploma mill canard doesn't wash. I would be interested in the real reasons you despise TFA.

Ok, go ahead and fire away. Care to insult my mother some more?
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tortoise1956 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. What report?
I did a search on "world bank report on education", couldn't find an applicable document. If you will provide a link, I will take that as my homework and report on my results.

In case you're wondering, I'm not kidding. You tell me where it is, I will read it. Unlike so many others in my age group (53), I still have the desire to learn and study. One reason I like the internet is the sheer amount of information that is available. Of course, there is the occasional tinfoil-hat stuff - but that's fun in it's own way!
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. she hasn't read it
just likes to take quotes from other sites - also taken out of context and/or from 20 years ago...


http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTEDUCATION/0,,menuPK:282391~pagePK:149018~piPK:149093~theSitePK:282386,00.html

Let me know what you think.

I'd love to have a discussion on the merits. On the report itself instead of some twisted halfquote deliberate misinterpretation.

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