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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:51 AM
Original message
Choking on the Common Core Standards
Many things that are commonplace activities for adults driving, voting, and paying taxes, for example are not appropriate for children. I count the Common Core State Standards, proposed for all our countrys public schools, among them.

Over my more than 50 years in public education Ive come to know young children pretty well, and I am sure that 8-9 years olds are not ready to describe the relationship between a series of historical events, scientific ideas or concepts, or steps in technical procedures in a text, using language that pertains to time, sequence, and cause/effect, as decreed by one of the standards for third-grade readers of informational text.

In addition to the English Language Arts (ELA) standard quoted above, here are two others from the same category, the first for 6-7 year olds and the second for 10-11 year olds:

Gr. 1: Know and use various text features (e.g., headings, tables of

contents, glossaries, electronic menus, icons) to locate key facts or

information in a text.

Gr. 5: Analyze multiple accounts of the same event or topic, noting

important similarities and differences in the point of view they

represent


Reading through the whole list of ELA standards several times, I marked 18 others in reading, writing, speaking or language that I consider inappropriate for elementary level students because of the emphasis on skills or knowledge that children have not yet developed. I will not quote any of them here, but I urge interested readers to read the Standards and see how many they think are beyond the range of elementary level students.

more . . . http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/choking-on-the-common-core-standards/2011/12/02/gIQAG6cpPO_blog.html#pagebreak
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. One of the comments:
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 11:53 AM by proud2BlibKansan
In addition to many of the CC standards being developmentally-inappropriate, there are some that are incorrect. For example, the 4th grade math group includes this standard (4.OA): "Solve multistep word problems posed with whole numbers and having whole-number answers using the four operations, including problems in which remainders must be interpreted." This is mathematically impossible. If an answer is a whole number, it is not possible for there to be a remainder. I have yet to receive a response from the AZ Dept of Ed trainer who presented these standards to our district.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "If an answer is a whole number, it is not possible for there to be a remainder."
9 /4 = 2 Remainder 1.

Sorry but that is quite possible.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The answer is 2.25
That's not a whole number.

But you point out one of the big problems with Common Core. Many of them are very confusing.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. No the answer in whole numbers is 2 remainder 1
This is not confusing at all, it is basic whole number arithmetic.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It's very confusing and proves the point of the article.
We can both present a credible argument defending our answer. Actually we are both correct depending on which textbook or mathematician we consult for the answer. And hence, the problem with Common Core standards (actually only ONE problem). How can they be considered standards when there is controversy like this one all through them?

My larger objection is that they are developmentally inappropriate. I find it shameful that child development no longer matters when we determine what to teach our children and when to teach it.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'm sorry but this is not confusing at all.
Whole number division is a fundamental arithmetic skill.

The fact that you continue to argue that there is no such thing as a remainder in whole number division is not indicative of a credible argument, it is indicative of either stubbornness on your part to admit an error or amazing ignorance of basic elementary school mathematics.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. And you can continue to call me ignorant or we can have a real discussion
:eyes:
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. This discussion became surreal a long time ago.
Did you ever learn long division? Does that process ring a bell anywhere?

If you were going to divide 9 children into 4 groups would you slice the remaining child (after allotting two children to each of the four groups) up into four parts? That would be the Solomonic Solution, but it would not be whole number division.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. What happens when you subtract 12 from 87 as many times as you can ?
I get 75 every time.

(Actual problem -- and answer! -- from a standard test in the UK. The authors of the test expected 3 as the answer. By a literal interpretation of the instructions, which makes more sense to a child than what is actually being asked, 75 is the correct answer. :) )
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I get negative infinity, and that's what I got at age nine. What a STUPIDLY worded question.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. LOL! Even better!
Edited on Mon Dec-05-11 01:37 PM by eppur_se_muova
To get the "right" answer you have to be OPTIMALLY ignorant -- if you know a little more or a little less than the author of the question expects, you miss the question!
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. The smoking gun:
>>>>But in looking through the names, titles and institutions of the fifty people who made up the ELA development team, I was able to identify only one current elementary teacher. All the rest, were college/university professors, state or school district administrators, or representatives of private educational companies

In reality, then, these standards were written by highly educated adults who do not teach children at present and, possibly, never did. >>>>>


Why does so much of what is WRONG in education come down to this?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. It's appalling.
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 02:47 PM by proud2BlibKansan
We have incorporated some of the CC in our district curriculum. The 1st grade teachers in particular are enraged. One of them showed me an online test where her students are expected to read - independently - the word LIQUID. 1st graders are learning to read hat-mat-cat-bat-sat-rat. LIQUID is way beyond their capabilities. I know 4th graders who can't read that word.

It's crazy.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Then you have the bureaucratic morons who think....
... that even severely handicapped special ed kids should be aligned w. the cc standards.

And the teachers should be responsible for teaching them. We're having open warfare about this right now. With *casualties*.


Mother of god.

The level of STUPIDITY.

The level of FOOLISHNESS.
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