Looking for help; would like to take my child out of public school mid year.

[halobeam]

I posted in the lounge, but find it warranted to cross post here. (Probably should've been the other way around, but I'm so furious right now, I'm not exactly doing things in the right order). I think that's why I'm asking for some sound feedback on this issue.

Here's the link to my post.. I hope I'm doing this right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7551254

[villager]

1. Are there charter schools where you are? Any kind of no/low-cost alternatives?

(If private is too expensive...)

Any type of magnet schools within the system that might be structured differently?

[halobeam]

6. I'm going to look into that.

What are magnet schools? (I may be showing how little I know about the education system, but to my defense I have only dealt with public schools my whole life).

[villager]

12. "Magnet schools" -- at least here in L.A. -- are schools within the public district

organized around special areas of study (performing arts, science, humanities, etc.) usually, and not restricted to neighboring addresses -- qualified students from around the whole district can apply to get in...


It's more "textured" than that, but that's a thumbnail description...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. You have my sympathy

First thing I would do would be to go to the principal and discuss the problem with him/her. Go there first, and not to individual teachers; they tend to think the world revolves around their subject and that they don't have to change what they are doing. But a principal can help come up with a plan that makes work less overwhelming.

Are there tracked classes in your school? If so, talk about moving your son to another track.

I went to a university lab school for high school, one of the top ten in the country, and I don't recall having this much homework in 7th grade--and we took 7th and 8th grade in one year, too. NCLB has ruined our educational system, I think.

One more thought-find out if other parents are complaining as well. You can and should join together and take this up with the school board if the principal doesn't give satisfaction.

[halobeam]

7. I appreciate that.

I do have a good relationship with the principal (so far, lol) and I hope she is as good as I think she can be. I'd love to see her take this on, with my child's best interests in mind. I'd hate for her to become defensive, but that's always a risk. I agree with you, that some teachers do tend to think they don't have to change anything for anyone, as if all children are the same.

It used to have tracks, but they got rid of that because it wasn't good for the children's self-esteem. They have honors classes and regular classes. They do offer supportive math and reading, but the teachers don't work with one another effectively enough to coordinate their lessons, esp. around exams/quizzes. It's a shame.

I just finished discussing this whole thing with a teacher who works in a nearby district and she told me the social studies he was given is taught in 10th grade, some of it (Articles of Confederation) is taught in 11th. She was appalled.

Unfortunately, this neighborhood bites. Everyone is "out-jonesing" the next guy, right down to their kids and their accomplishments. I've hit walls just trying to coordinate a time to get our kids together to play, and they "couldn't come to the phone", they were too busy. They didn't call back at a better time, either. I've followed up on this with my child, and he has spoken to these kids; sadly, these parents don't have time to spend with their own kids either. No one here would EVER stir up "trouble"... it's that kind of place. I've lived here my whole life, it was always that way, and it's gotten worse as time has passed.

I still will call a few parents, maybe they are actually reaching their tipping point as well, so I shouldn't say "NEVER", but it's doubtful they'll do anything about it. There is the factor that both parents work here, just to keep their SUV tanks full and their landscaper every Friday. I'm sure as the economy tanks, the credit crunches, the value of the homes decrease, they'll be working to just stay in their home (if they aren't starting to already).

We are on Long Island, Nassau County. Taxes are highest in the nation, and the utilities are close to that. The stress is starting to build, coming in and from every direction.

Maybe if their kids are looking at being left back because the system is failing THEM, then they'll wake the hell up!

In the meanwhile, I've got a lot to look into and much to decide.

On a side note: The teacher I spoke with earlier, noted from something I said, that my son might actually be showing signs of dyslexia. I'm on that FIRST. I can't believe that he'd be able to get this far though without a teacher noticing this. Is this even possible?

Well, deep breath for now, and some good sleep. Tomorrow is another day.

Thank you.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. By all means, check out the dyslexia

Find out about that first. But geez, I think that teacher from another district was correct in her assessment. Sometimes teachers need to be reminded of limits. So go for it!

My regards to you and your son.

[teacher gal]

3. halobeam

Below is the same message I posted in the lounge. Please understand teachers hate this as much as you but their very jobs and the survival of their schools depend on those test scores. Parents and teachers need to unite to fight this crap. These sorry tests don't mean squat about your sons particular gifts, talents, and potential...they have virtually no predictive value. And kids deserve a childhood too.

I'm so sorry. Everything about NCLB and high-stakes testing serves to demoralize and defeat, and destroy public education. Believe me, this is the baby of the corporate/politicos and big business is benefiting mightily from it. I cannot blame you in the least for wanting to pull your son out of his school and into private school...yet sadly this is the way it works in the corporate scheme of things. They would never subject their own kids to such an oppressive regime. Again, it all serves to undermine public education but the important immediate thing is that you have to do what is best for your son. I'd really like to continue this conversation but have to go work at my school for a few hours. I'm writing in a rush so hope I'm making sense.

May I make a suggestion? Have you already signed the petition to end NCLB? If not, it's at www.educatorroundtable.org . Your comments here are powerful and you could copy them and leave them on the petition. We also have a discussion site www.educatorroundtable.net if you'd like to leave comments there. You will find support and understanding there.

We are just a grassroots group with precious little money but we're doing what we can. It is all strictly volunteer work. No one has earned a dime but we have spent much of our own time, effort, and money.

I wish your son the very best...he and all of our children deserve far better.

Would you consider posting your comments at our .net site? Tell them I sent you if you'd like.

Tauna Rogers

[halobeam]

8. thanks, I did see that in the lounge

I responded there. I'm sorry for not copying and pasting right now, but I'm so tired, I'm seeing double.

I'll be taking your suggestions, and I appreciate your posting here as well. Shows how much people care.

:pals:

[LWolf]

4. I don't have any suggestions for you.

I could say find a private school, but that simply encourages the destruction of public ed to continue.

Joining people who are fighting the renewal of NCLB would be a good start.

My school and district have always put focusing on the whole child as a priority. Under the NCLB gun, our priorities are being pruned, year by year, into "test scores." That's it. Meanwhile, budgets have been cut to the point that we have one of the shortest school years in the nation. Students attend school for 168 days. We have more demands, less time to meet those demands, and the schedule is a nightmare. For us, as well as for students.

My seventh graders are required to read every single night, do some math every single night, and spend about ten minutes 3 times a week on spelling and vocabulary. Depending on the student, this can take between 45 minutes and 90 minutes. If they are studying for an exam, that becomes the reading, so that it doesn't add more time.

They can also run into trouble with classwork; if they waste class time, that adds assignments that should have been completed in class to the burden at home.

I would much prefer to have enough school days, and enough class time, with less to master in that time, so that we wouldn't need to spend the time on homework.

[halobeam]

9. I hear you.

I would accept what your seventh graders are required to do, and I believe my son would be able to do that without a problem. I'm surprised he's been able to last this long on what he's required to do at this school, before burn-out. He's there. Burned OUT. I'm pissed about it, quite frankly. He's highly spirited, good natured, a pleaser and not a pushover, and wants to work for his self-respect (I've told him since he was born, he couldn't buy that at the store with a million dollars, it's something to earn by doing hard and challenging work). This load is way over the top; as I've been told twice now by teachers themselves tonight, his Social Studies is HS level. (My 11th grade son had a test similar to his, and the difference was, my 17yr olds test was EASIER). I need to get rest tonight though, because I don't want to be worked up tomorrow while I deal with some of this.

There's so much more to discuss, and I'll kick this back up in the next two days or so, when I've gotten more info...

Thanks for sharing your time, I very much appreciate it!

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. *Sounds* like NY.

>>>What do I do? I need to get him into a private school of some sort that doesn't give state tests and teaches a concept within a reasonable time frame. He's had two weeks to learn the constitution, all the articles, every amendment. During this same period, he's doing his first research project for English that is a real research paper, 5 sources, etc, worked cited pages, topic sentences, every detail needs to have a source # which supports the topic sentence. He needs to connect compare contrast sources, etc. Add to it, a science test which taught him in one week the respiratory and the excretory system. Add to it, reading a book for English (aside from the research project) in which five chapters are to be read this week, 40 questions, 30 vocabulary words and a group project.>>>


It also sounds like a bunch of educators functioning independently of and oblivious to each other. No one is in charge of looking at the big picture: how much is being demanded of the kid *in total*. As it is, no one wants to get in trouble by not giving enough HW. So you have overkill. It sounds like the problem , as you describe it, is less that the school is too demanding than that the curriculum is not properly coordinated. 'School as assembly line model' run amuck in this era of the intertwining of politics and education.


I took my son out of PS last year in large measure to get away from the chaos that *is* PS here ( NYC). ( There were some other issues as well.)

Someone in this or the lounge thread recommended a meeting with the principal for starters. I'd do that first. See if the PA is helpful. ( Sometimes they are; usually they're not)

Then I'd scope out private schools. Secular privates are hugely expensive. Parochial religious schools don't cost much, and produce a solid, no frills education. If you're not religious tell them that; they'll probably lighten-up on the proselytyzing aspect. From their POV, there are seats to be filled; they often don't care who... religiously speaking... is filling them.

[halobeam]

10. Is it just NY though? I wonder since this is state-wide....

I know what you meant by your comment, so I'm not playing semantics, just noting that I'm beginning to think it's happening everywhere, especially where the curriculum is not properly coordinated as you stated:

>>>>It also sounds like a bunch of educators functioning independently of and oblivious to each other. No one is in charge of looking at the big picture: how much is being demanded of the kid *in total*. As it is, no one wants to get in trouble by not giving enough HW. So you have overkill. It sounds like the problem , as you describe it, is less that the school is too demanding than that the curriculum is not properly coordinated. 'School as assembly line model' run amuck in this era of the intertwining of politics and education.<<<<


Yes! They are functioning independently of and oblivious to each other! I can NOT believe this holds true in my son's "supportive" math class as well! That's as shitty as it gets (pardon my language, I'm just beyond being polite tonight)! Supportive math teacher and reg. math teacher do not coordinate well enough that they have re-enforced review before exams/quizzes. Want to hear the damn kicker on this??

The reg. Math teacher is High School based (many of her HS students that normally do well, are doing poorly) and she is only available to give extra help to her middle school *including* supportive math students... 28 minutes a week!! Who gives this kind of teacher with those demands and limitations, a SUPPORTIVE math student!?!

Gawd. I'm getting pissed again.

There is a parochial school about 15 miles from here. It's 8,000 bucks. Don't know if the voucher system applies for my child or not, and don't know about other programs that may be able to help. I will check it out.

I am completely aware of the purpose this NCLB serves, other than lining the pockets of Jeb Bush, and McGraw III., it is to destroy the public school system and privatize it all. I get it. It's working too, and I'll fight this along with everyone else WHILE I make sure my child is NOT LEFT BEHIND.

[Smarmie Doofus]

13. Hmm... I'm a bit surprised that this is going on in Nassau.

>>Is it just NY though? I wonder since this is state-wide....>>>

A functioning, home-owning middle class tends to keep the PS system honest. For the huge property taxes they pay, suburbanites generally expect and demand that the schools function properly. That's been my impression, anyway.

In the city, the dynamics are completely different. The middle-class is small and uses private schools disproportionately. The upper-middle class, incongruently large in NYC, esp in Manhattan, will have nothing at all to do with the public school system. The system is the domain of immigrants and the working poor... pretty much exclusively. These groups generally pay no property tax and are not particularly sophisticated about bringing pressure to bear to make the system accountable.

Re. parochial school: 8000 per year is pretty steep for elementary school. That's about what people I know are paying for High School. Around here, Catholic elementary school costs 3000, 4000 tops.

BTW, most Catholic schools are unionized. It's just that the union is not very strong and the pay is pathetic.

[elleng]

14. I'm surprised its in Nassau, too.

I attended grades 5-12 in RVC, and have felt quite superior ever since! (It was a long time ago.) I don't recall ever being overburdened with homework. We moved there (from Brooklyn) at suggestion of family, BECAUSE of excellent schools.

Catholic elementary schools in DC cost more than 4000; don't know how much more, as my daughters are in and graduated from college now. Here's a bit about Catholic school in RVC; don't know cost.

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/ny/private/4912

[mzteris]

15. the place to look for help at DU

would be here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=251


How are things going, btw?