This is the M-effing point....

[LeftHander]

WARREN SIMPLY DOESN'T GET IT!!!

Evangelicals believe they are doing nothing wrong. They believe they can do no harm because of adherence their religious practice.

So Warren says he is against gay marriage but wants to come together without demonizing each other. The problem is he already believes he is incapable of demonizing anyone.

HE SIMPLY DOESN'T GET IT OR SEE IT!!!

They will continue to take away rights and justify it on religious dogma and not take responsibility for the positions they hold and the OUTCOMES it produces.

[yardwork]

1. Warren doesn't get the need for human rights and doesn't care.

Warren is a snake oil salesman like someone in a Mark Twain novel. He will lie, cheat, and smile his way to profit any way he can get it. He certainly doesn't care who dies along the way.

[Two Americas]

13. exactly

His followers are being deceived. Important to remember that. His motives are self-serving. All of us have been so thoroughly trained to ignore the lust for power and wealth and the impact that has on everything. When we take that out of our analysis, pretend that it doesn't exist, see the grabbing of power and wealth as a good thing, or an inevitable thing, and then treat that as though it were neutral, it becomes very difficult to understand what is happening and to build solidarity and fight back against the right wingers and the bigots.

Straights need to stand up and speak out against bigotry. I am more convinced of that every day. We need to see that as completely consistent with and supportive of a general stand for justice and equality in all things, not as some side-show, some distraction, not as something that interferes with some grand "progressive" plan or takes our attention away from "more important things." We need to see that all of the causes are about the fight for justice and equality, and that standing up for justice and equality anywhere strengthens us in the battle for justice and equality everywhere.

[patrice]

2. It is useful to go after the SELF-Righteous on the basis of their OWN claims.nt

[GodlessBiker]

3. 100% right. And you don't need any fucking poll to know it.

[bluedawg12]

4. He lied about his hate speech - after he was invited

it's on tape, Rachel Maddow showed the hate speech and his lying denial.

Snake oil salesmen don't change - they just change their pitch. Caveat emptor.

[The Doctor.]

8. He has many people totally snowed.

That "I'm really a good guy" act is masterful, but apparently he's a Dominioninst.

[madeline_con]

5. The sad part is, his followers don't see the parallel

between what he's doing and what extremists of other "faiths" do.

If they had their way, many of them would absolutely hold public ececutions of gays, unmarried pregnant women, etc. They're sick and dangerous, and still gaining power by the day.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

10. THANK YOU!!

"
If they had their way, many of them would absolutely hold public ececutions of gays, unmarried pregnant women, etc. They're sick and dangerous, and still gaining power by the day."

FINALLY some one came out and said the truth. These people are fucking dangerous! Obama wants to reach out to people like these?

[tbyg52]

6. If the Bible says it, it can't be wrong. If the President does it, it's not illegal. nt

[Clintonista2]

7. It's like training a dog. You don't reward them when they do something bad

So why are we rewarding Warren?

[Hydra]

9. Warren himself DOES get it

I bet most of his flock doesn't, though.

He's just taking them for a ride, not unlike any charismatic dictator, and they're happily letting him lead them to hell. The problem is that he'll take us with him if it will make him a buck or increase his power base.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

11. They Follow Him Because...

they like what he preaches. If he preached love and tolerance these people would be under the sway of another charlatan. They already hated us when they came to join his tent show--he just fans the flames. He is dangerous...his followers are sick and dangerous.

[Two Americas]

12. no, I don't think so

Warren and other leaders of the religious right would like us to believe that they represent millions, all of whom think alike. That is an illusion he creates to dupe everyone. "I represent the Christian community." That is why selecting Warren for the invocation is so destructive, because what that does mostly is reinforce Warren's leadership position - buttress and validate and legitimatize it.

I went to a fundy church on Christmas Eve, a crowd of about 300 rural whites, all Warren admirers (his book has made him a superstar, and many people get email "update" nonsense from him and are networked in) and spoke out against bigotry. (Fortuitously for me, the main pastor was out of town on an emergency, and the congregation was winging it informally - they alternated readings of the story of "the child born in poverty, to outcast, despised unwed parents bringing a message of love" with singing traditional carols. I belted out the bass parts with gusto, and was glad they didn't do any of that swaying emotional crappy modern "Christian" music.)

A member got up and did an ad hoc homily on the theme of being a light in the darkness (living the message of love and compassion and charity in humility as an example to others) rather than presuming to shine a light into the darkness (judging your neighbor and telling them what to do.) Perfect.

Here is what I saw - those people are fearful and worried, they are blue collar working class folks, struggling and wondering if they can keep their jobs and their homes and their farms or shops. They have a sense that things have all gone terribly wrong, and they don't hear our analysis of that, they don't hear what they need to hear to make sense of things. Liberals never go there, strong left wing voices are not heard in the media. Then along comes a self-serving demagogue, like Warren, promising to make sense of it all for them and wrapping it all in a perverted and corrupted religious context. They are extraordinarily vulnerable to the lies and deception of the religious right demagogues. Warren tells them, that yes things have gone wrong and they are not at fault, and that yes things seem overwhelming and hopeless, so we turn to the message of the humble carpenter and use that as a guide for our lives. So far so good, but Warren could never attain power and influence and wealth if he stopped there. He would be a servant rather than master if he practiced what he preached. So he tells them that there is a spiritual war going on between good and evil, and then identifies the ones on the side of evil by pandering to people's fears and prejudice. "Stick with me" he says (buy my books, send money, get my newsletter) "and we will fight back against the evil together." Big fucking cynical manipulative deceitful lie right there.

I got a good response to what I had to say about homophobia and bigotry, some tearing up and people shaking my hand and hugging me afterward, and I hope a lot of people are thinking things over now. There is at least just a little crack in the armor now.

This is no big deal, I am not trying to say I did any great thing here at all. I am relating the story mostly for the benefit of other straights. I think we need to speak out, and I think it is a lot easier for straights to do this.

[Deep13]

14. *bing*bing*bing*bing!!!* We have a winnah!

When good is defined by what is holy, then anything sanctioned by religion, no matter how monstrous, must also be good.