Are you man enough to take a walk in my shoes?

[Sub Atomic]

By 1992 I lost over 50 of my friends to HIV/AIDS.

I cannot even begin to tell you how losing your entire social network affects you.


For me, I put my rage into supporting the policies and actions of ACT UP!

You may or may not agree with that groups premise or actions or mindset. For me, I was fucking sick and tired of seeing my friends die.

Do any of you know what it's like to lose between 4 and 8 friends a month for over 2 years in a row? Do you know what it's like to cry at so many funerals/memorials that you just can't cry anymore?

Don't tell me you've walked a mile in my shoes until you've actually had to walk a mile in my shoes. The past 10 years will be a nice walk through the park; do you have the balls to go beyond that?

Those of you that want to try to pooh-pooh away my experience: what would you do if you were in my shoes?

[mitchtv]

1. I can tell you that I have

I miss my friends dearly. we had built a shrine to the gay predecessors in the back of our farm, where we smoked and visited our friends pictures and amulets, there was some channeling done also. I feel for you, as I know what you have been through. with love, Mitch

[xchrom]

2. recommend

[LostinVA]

3. I lost a few, and that was bad enough

:pals:

[Raster]

4. Same shoestore here. I got tired of the death.

My best friend and longtime companion died in my arms. Our two best friends, a couple, are both gone. Yep, I feel your pain. Been there, doing that.

[Sub Atomic]

5. Raster, I'm sorry for your loss.

:hug:


There has been far too many 'losses' in this community.


At what point do we say 'enough is enough?'

[Raster]

11. Thank you, and I yours, my friend.

I've reached that point. Enough is enough.

[AntiFascist]

6. K&R !

I won't pretend to understand your experience because I was incredibly lucky during that time period and the only people I saw die of AIDS were the ones I volunteered to help. I can tell you that after watching people die from it you would never be the same.

Unfortunately, younger gay people do not have this experience to draw upon. The cruelty and downright evil of the Religious Right is a force to be reckoned with, as witnessed by their response during the Reagan/Bush administration.

[Raster]

7. Oh wait, before I responded, I should have verified it was an approved post for GLBT.

There's some posts we GLBT persons are not supposed to respond to, it makes us look uppity and like we're not looking at the big picture. And Gawd forbid we find a thread we take umbrage to and say so... then you get ripped for ruining DU by 6 month posters, though I've been posting here for 6 years.

[Sub Atomic]

12. Raster, I can only offer you my support and knowing that my unbridled rage is here

I'm sitting in the same boat as you are.

I refuse to be marginalized ever again.

[Raster]

13. Life truly is too short. I will do anything and everything I can to precipitate change...

if not for me and my generation, then for the next generation of GLBT persons.

I will not sit down. I will not shut the fuck up. I will not wait for society to deem my civil rights as important. I deem my civil rights important and that includes the right to love and marry whom I chose. And let me be perfectly fucking clear: you are either with me or you are against me.

[Sub Atomic]

17. I would REC your post if I could. But I can only give your post a POTD

[Raster]

22. Thanks, Buddy!

[mitchtv]

Couldn't have said it better

I am with you; for what time I have remaining

[mitchtv]

23. Couldn't have said it better

I am with you; for what time I have remaining

[HillbillyBob]

26. I have those shoes too. 25 years since I was diagnosed.

The first death was a room mate in 83 I was later diagnosed as pos, was told that I had been infected at least 5-8 years previous to that. In 96 I went to 15 funerals in 1 month.
My partner and I have been together for 13 years now he is still neg. Likely immune, he has lost untold numbers of friends 2 lovers.
It bugs me to say ' kids these days don't have a clue'.
I have been tossed from the navy, been fired for being gay, beaten up, fought back and kicked some stupid redneck ass. and for what? our second class rights?
I have watched so many couples that one died and the other was thrown out of their home they built together, when their so called real family showed up after no contact at all for years or decades and had legal wills and deeds and documents thrown out and they were put on the street, many times sick and always grieving. Many times they both had put equal work and money into making a home and family.
Rage, is only a 4 letter word, but fuck it does not carry the weight of anger toward raygun bush, clinton, bush2 is/ was not much help. If I were not now so tired I would jump up and down in anger screaming for revenge.
Fuck yea I am bitter, but the best revenge is that I am STILL here.
We have worked hard, I have advocated for myself and others, I have been a guinea pig for the drugs that keep us alive. I would rather have my health back so we can build our little heaven on the hill. as it is my partner has to do the most of the heavy work.
And if I died, he might Still have to fight with my family to keep the place, that is the biggest injustice of all. I doubt that will happen now, they have been here and met him, finally after all these years. They realize he is a good man and takes care of me(and puts up with me).
As the late great Ozzie Davis said a few years ago.
"Gays are tne new N____"
Why? so the religious right and the fascist have an enemy to blame?

[Sub Atomic]

27. Buddy, I can only wrap my arms around you in solidarity.

I, too, have gone through SOME of what you have.

Yes, I was booted from the Navy for asking a buddy if he wanted a blowjob.

Yes, I have worked tirelessly for the rights of people afflicted with HIV/AIDS.

Yes, I have lost more friends than I can count on my fingers and toes combines.




The bullshit that is piled upon us on a daily basis deserves a righteous response. If we don't do it, who will?


You, as am I, are tired of this bullshit fight and the lack of any type of meaningful reward for our hard work.

Does that mean that our struggle and all of our efforts are for naught?

[HillWilliam]

31. Well, I'll say it's not entirely for nothing

I've been fired from jobs for being found out for being gay. I've never been one to lie since the worst asswhuppin' I got as a kid was for storying my parents. Word got around that that bikerdude might go for, um, other dudes. Boss asked, I said yeah, flat-out. Foomp, I didn't have a job. Long ago, water over the dam.

When I interviewed for my current job about 6 years ago now, HillbillyBob and I drove down together as it was about a 3-hour drive and I didn't want to drive it alone. Interviews in my field are usually about an half-hour thing: go over the resume, yaddayadda, haggle the price like a good software-developer-whore; if all goes well, get a start date, grab lunch and go home. Well, this thing stretched out and prospective boss invited me to lunch.

Oh shit.

Uh. "My partner is with me to help me with the drive." I'm thinking, will this be a flinch-moment, a fart in church?

Prospective boss didn't flinch. He bought lunch for both of us.

Coulda knocked me over with a feather.

So yeah, there is progress on some little fronts. If prospective boss had flinched in the least, betcherass I'd've kept looking, as hungry and bad-off as we were.

And buddy, we were bad off. That was the winter we had no heat and HillbillyBob went from strapping bodybuilder to 155 pounds and almost widowed me for the third time. But we all hung in there. We have our heaven on the hill and I'm still employed. I'm "teh gay one" in the company and nobody blinks.

Baby steps. But they're steps. We're changing minds. It's a slow process, but it's not ALL for naught.

[Chovexani]

43. I want to hug both of you. Right through the computer.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

We gotta keep fighting until we can all have that heaven on the hill. That's what keeps me going.

[donco6]

38. Ugh. Yes.

And then they keep OPing endlessly about how there's nothing to read on GD. Christ.

[bluedawg12]

8. We lost my young, handsome, brother-in-law back when HIV was not a "cause"

just a gay disease.

Thanks Reagan, you POS.

[Raster]

9. I echo that sentiment loudly. Thousands died because Raygun couldn't bring himself to

utter the word AIDS, much less mount an effort to educate and cure.

[bluedawg12]

19. Exactly! Ignored AIDS , cut off funding, then had the nerve to preach about it

as a curse.

[mitchtv]

24. the karma part is that he cut funding for Alzheimer's too

We reap what we sow

[Irishonly]

10. I am sorry for all of your losses

I worked with gang banger for quite a few years. One of my students had full blown AIDS and this was about 93. His girlfriend made it her mission to infect as many as she could and was eventually charged with a crime. I believe it was manslaughter although I thought it should have been premeditated murder. I fought like hell to keep him in school as long as he was able. My class was great and we were able to keep him there for the school year. I can't imagine losing as many as what you guys have.

I remember when they thought AIDS was a gay bath house disease and it didn't make any sense. It was ignored for far too long.

[Sub Atomic]

14. Those men weren't just MY loss.

They had families. Parents. Brothers. Sisters. Uncles/Aunts. Cousins.

They held jobs where their input was important and appreciated.



Yeah, I, too, remember when AIDS was a bath house disease. Far too many of my friends died during those 18 months.

[Irishonly]

16. And friends

Didn't mean to sound callous or offend you. All life is precious and the loss of anyone means loss for many.

[Sub Atomic]

25. Actually it takes a whole lot to offend me.

But the continuous posts about how GLBT posters should just shut the fuck up and stop whining about our 'pet issues' and 'one-note' issues is getting really fucking old.


If the motherfuckers on DU want me to sit down and shut the fuck up then they need to post in this thread so that they can be appropriately banned, according to The Rules of DU.





I won't be holding my breath waiting for it, though.

[tbyg52]

40. I do *not* want you to sit down and shut up - I appreciate this post.

I have not been through anything resembling your experiences, but I am infuriated by both the Warren pick and some of the responses here on DU just the same.

[flvegan]

15. I'm a pretty big dude, and would probably be considered quite the "manly man"

But my answer is...no, I'm not. I've never taken step number one in your shoes. I have no idea what it's like, and no idea what I'd do were I in them.

[Ioo]

18. ACT UP was ahead of it's time, we need it now more than ever

[Sub Atomic]

21. Reagan and Bush the 1st applaud the fact that most ACT UP! members are now dead

Unfortunately, there aren't enough Gen X/Yers that are willing to stand up and fight for their rights.

I'm afraid that Gay Rights aren't going to progress. There are far too many 'youngsters' that don't appreciate what us Old Fucks have done for them.

:sadbanana:

[bluedawg12]

20. (((dweeb))) I wish I could hug you, I can't feel your personal pain but I understand.

:grouphug:

[foxfeet]

28. I'm with you all.

I stopped counting in 1985, when I had lost 50 friends. I later lost many more, including two previous partners. I was diagnosed as poz in 1987, and my current partner of 23 years is still negative. I was most likely infected while living in New York City during the '70s. I do know what is is to be cried out and, finally, numb. And like HillWilliam, I am still here and that is part of my revenge for the treatment gay men suffered during the '80s and later. Another part of my revenge is that I will not shut up. I decide when to bitch, to whom and what to bitch about. I have earned that right (even if it didn't already exist as a natural right), as have we all. You are my brothers and sisters, and brother-sisters and sister-brothers (you know who you are) and I am honored that you are in this fight with me.

[HillWilliam]

29. I saw the thread in GD and was shocked

at some of the callousness. Some folks really don't get that HIV is a HOLOCAUST directed at us. As my partner posted above, we've been to so many funerals and memorials, I truly have lost count. I quit counting at 50, years and years ago. I couldn't take counting any more. I have always been very active; fundraising, volunteering, protesting, petitioning, whatever. One meets a lot of people that way. I've been widowed twice.

How many times does your heart have to break in a million pieces in one life? All you can do is love with everything you've got while you can.

WTF is wrong with that? You don't get another chance at life. The older I get, the more I realize it's a short-ass length of time, no matter what you get, 20 years or 70. It's not much.

I never understood all the hating. It's such a heavy burden to bear. And when the haters get to the Rainbow Bridge with their smug smiles, do they actually think all that burden will allow them across?

Somehow I doubt that.

I have to opt to love. The more you love, the more you can love and the more people you can love better. Sure, you're going to get your heart broken. Sure, your soul will be ripped in two when they leave. But I believe in Something Better. I don't know what it is, but I do know this: whatever It is, It gives me strength to keep going and keep loving.

Dweeb, my wish for you is some of this healing strength. Somehow, if feet can hit the floor in the morning, if one foot can get in front of the other one after that, individually we keep moving. If each one of us keeps moving, then as a community we'll keep moving. If the community keeps moving, then by-damn and by-damn-them-all we'll keep pushing. I don't know how to fight any more. I'm too damn tired. But I know how to be a rock that will. Not. Be. Moved. Until I have full and equal citizenship, I will continue to be a mighty rock in the path of those who will not cooperate. If I can't have what I want, they ain't gettin' what they want. They want to whittle at me? I'll roll over top of 'em, calm as The Buddha.

When ya get a little age on, ya get that way.

If y'ever need to talk, PM me or HillbillyBob. Hang in there.

That goes for anyone else in the community. We believe in community and we believe in neighbors sticking together and helping neighbors. There is great strength in communication, great strength in alliances.

Pax.

[bluedawg12]

32. That was beautifully said, brother Bill.

Amen.
:grouphug:

[HillWilliam]

34. All I know is what I know, Sis

and you've been my rock more than once. That's community at work. I appreciate the PMs.

We all pull together: in forums, and in PMs, and in emails, and in our own ways. It's not for nothing.

We heal.

We keep going.

Damn those who stand in our way.

There's never time enough for love.

:grouphug:

[RetiredTrotskyite]

48. Yep. Absolutely Beautiful

thanks, Bill.:grouphug:

[Vanje]

30. This is the thread that should have 175 recs

[bluedawg12]

33. It just got another.

:thumbsup:

[readmoreoften]

35. If there are posters who are glib about the effect of HIV on the lives of gay men, I'm glad I missed

that thread.

I would never pooh-pooh your experience. Your experience is our history. Your experience is invaluable.

[davidinalameda]

36. all I can say is amen

we need something like ACT-UP today

we need to take the fight to those who would deny us our rights, whether they're right wingers or so-called progressives like some of the shits on here

[Chovexani]

44. Damn right we do

We need to re-discover the fine art of raising hell.

I think Prop 8 might be the match that re-ignites it. I hope it is.

[TWiley]

37. If it happened to the Religious, there would be tel-athons and fruit baskets

It should be a Human Right, not merely a Civil Right, for all people to be able to create their own social (and legal) networks of community. To deprive any group of this fundamental human need is criminal.

I am truly sorry for your loss, I only lost 3 to HIV / AIDS so I cannot begin to imagine how truly horrific such an experience is.

In our nation, it is largely the so-called Christian influence that is to blame.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. i think we need an actup for marriage. i think larry kramer and other actup activists were heroes

atleast they are my heroes

[MuseRider]

41. (((hug)))

I have not been in your shoes. Most of the HIV positive people I know are doing quite well with their medications. I dread the day that that changes for them. I have lost only acquaintances and a few I cared for in the ICU except for the loss of my brother 6 years ago. He had lost many friends.

It seems there have been threads making light of this? I am thankful I did not see them and sad that you and others had to. How someone can do that is beyond me.

[dickthegrouch]

42. I, too, lost more friends than I can count

Living in San Jose, CA in the early 80s was far too close to San Francisco and the number of friends I had in both cities was staggering. I can count the number of them that I still see occasionally on my fingers. It just kills me that so many were discarded.

I often get into trouble for my outspoken views on how the US government approaches things, but the thing that the largest number of people get upset about is my assertion that it is partly our problem. Ann Landers said "You cannot be taken advantage of without your consent", and even with all the organizing and activism we have engaged in over the years we are still only scratching the surface of what *really* needs to be done.

We desperately need to be spending $73M on education of our youth, rather than marriage battles (which I consider extremely important) but the thugs of the right wing won't let us.

I just turned down Move-on's request for a new donation because their membership didn't want to support my issues, The telefund operator tried hard to get me to change my mind, but when I said that Gay marriage was the most important to me she had no answer. I have sworn off all political donations except to organizations such as HRC, Lambda Legal and others to ensure that our rights get enshrined.

It is more important than ever to make sure the separation of church and State is maintained. Marriage could be the deciding battle on that front. Let's all assist CA AG Brown in winning the Prop 8 issue for us. It will take more money. It will take a great deal of explaining after the supreme court finds for us again. We MUST take up that challenge.

Sorry I'm rambling a bit. But I too am so frustrated that I don't know how else to get all the points across.

[plantwomyn]

45. San Francisco 1979-1989

I stopped counting after the first year and just kept cooking, cleaning, holding their hands, driving to the hospital and packing their belongings afterward. In between I joined ACT UP in the streets and SCREAMED!
:hug: :cry: :grouphug:

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

46. there's no contest to see who's lost or suffered the most--

If there was, I sure wouldn't want to enter it. I've lost a few dear friends to cancer over the past few years and it's been tough. I don't know how you feel, but I know how I felt seeing them die. I tend to have a small group of close friends, not nearly enough to lose 4-8 per month, not that it matters.
Why is it so important to you that others understand your exact experience? People generally are just trying to be supportive. There's no manual of how to say the perfect thing to each individual person. People are trying to support and be compassionate to you in the best way they know how, even if it fails to meet your expectations.
Have you had any therapy or grief counseling to deal with so much loss? Therapist run support groups are also good. You'll find that everyone suffers whether they lose one friend or 50 friends. Grief counselors can help you process the extreme emotion of losing so many friends and acquaintences.

[ronnykmarshall]

47. I lost my brother on November 9th, 1989.

Three days before that, my best friend lost her brother. All four of us lived together at one point.

It was a nightmare watching them slowly slip away. It was hell watching my mom lose her son.

I had a delayed reaction to my brother's death and has a mini nervous breakdown in 1991.

My first boyfriend killed himself in 1994 because he was starting to get sick and did not want to die like that.

I think back to the 1980's and the smug looks on Reagan and Bush's faces and I want to punch them.