Here we go guys. PROP 8 viewing information!

[cboy4]

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The hearing will be streamed live on www.sacbee.com and www.calchannel.com at 9 a.m. Pacific/ Noon Eastern.

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By Susan Ferriss
[e-mail]
Published: Thursday, Mar. 5, 2009 - 12:00 am

Starting at 9 a.m. today, the state's Supreme Court will hear oral arguments for and against the validity of Proposition 8, the controversial November ballot measure that barred same-sex unions in California by declaring marriage only for a man and a woman.

The debate will turn on the constitutional right of equal protection, the role of the judiciary and the power of the electorate in configuring the state constitution.

The high court's seven justices have asked for arguments on three key questions:

• Should Proposition 8 have been submitted to voters as a "revision" to the constitution, which would have required lawmakers to place it on the ballot? The measure made the ballot via initiative, as an "amendment" to the constitution.

• Does Proposition 8 violate the separation of powers provisions of the constitution because it should have been approved by the Legislature first?

• If the Proposition 8 is constitutional, what is to become of the estimated 19,000 same-sex marriages performed between June 16 and the passage of the measure on Nov. 4?

http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/1673083.html

[cboy4]

1. ...

[tavalon]

2. Are you sure you want to recommend this post?

Fuck yeah!

[billyoc]

3. C'mon, SC, show the world human rights matter in CA.

K&R

[cboy4]

4. Nice Photo

[Starry Messenger]

5. k&r!

[Hepburn]

6. Thanks for the links....I will be live streaming this! K&R....n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

7. Can't get it to load.

Probably way too much traffic.

[Hepburn]

8. You are ahead of me, Ronnie....

...I cannot even find it on the State link. Trying to get registered for the Sac Bee live streaming.

[ronnykmarshall]

9. I did that and it worked for a bit ...

Now it's down.

[Hepburn]

13. Hey, RONNY....

...I see I got your name spelled wrong on my last post to you...sorry. That's why I all cap'd it this time. LOL

I cannot even get an email for the Sac Bee with my confirmation. So, you are ahead of me.

IMO, this NEEDED to be fully covered. Maybe we can find it later...at least I hope so.

[NMMNG]

10. I'm sick over this mess

I didn't sleep worth a damn last night and had a nightmare involving a guy screaming in my face "You're not really married!". I'm so tired of the hatred and the incessant need some have to oppress others.

[Hepburn]

11. Hey....

...Gawd :eyes: told them to do that.

You know, being gay is just the worst thing EV-AH. That's why it is included in the 10 Commandments.

:sarcasm:

[NMMNG]

22. God commands lots of things

Genocide, rape, infanticide, bombing women's health clinics, flying planes into buildings, and so much more. I'm surprised he has time left to worry about what we're doing with our genitals. :shrug:

[Hepburn]

31. But.....but....but......

....he made the fundies to do that for him, right? :shrug:

[cboy4]

12. You know, some of these supreme court justices are

really fucking full of themselves.

"our decision" blah blah

Yea, screw you you fucking straight people

[Hepburn]

14. Are you on?

If so...can you give us some info? I cannot get on.

And...oh, I want Ken Starr to get his butt fucking kicked sooooooo bad!

[cboy4]

15. Oh shut up b-word!

Who is this woman? :mad:

[ronnykmarshall]

18. I'll check back in here for updates ...

It's not like we are going to know anything today. It will probably take a few days or weeks.

[cboy4]

23. Oh, now she's comparing us to criminals.

I've gotta figure out who this white woman Clarence Thomas is

[cboy4]

16. The California Channel is not loading for me at all, the the

Sacramento Bee link is working perfectly.

Hopefully one doesn't have to be a subscriber to be eligible to access.

[Hepburn]

17. Yeah, you do have to subscribe.

And I cannot be a confirmation email back to get on.

:mad:

[cboy4]

19. KPIX-TV 5 San Francisco is streaming and it works:

http://cbs5.com/

TOP OF PAGE:

Click on: Live: Calif. Supreme Court Hearing On Prop 8 (California Channel)

[Hepburn]

21. Thanks!!

I somehow got on the Sac Bee one...and I also posted a link.

[Hepburn]

42. I lost the Sac Bee live stream and used your link....

...works much better than the one from the Sac Bee.

[cboy4]

49. Yea, I lost the Bee link also.

:eyes:

So far so good with KPIX/CBS 5's

I wish this was on CSPAN or something.

[Hepburn]

20. WORKING LINK ~~ LIVE STREAMING:

http://www.sacbee.com/live/

Also posted in GBLT forum...:hi:

[ronnykmarshall]

24. Try this link ....

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/livenow?id=6692754

KGO - ABC 7 SF

I can't watch this .... because I'm getting pissed off.

[Hepburn]

57. Well, Ronny....

...I lost Sac Bee, ABC...and now am using your feed! :hi:

[t0dd]

25. For those of you watching..

you can clearly tell Moreno is on our side

[cboy4]

26. Yea, this Joyce Kennard bitch, who's a fucking Republican

has already made up her mind. :puke:

[t0dd]

28. All of them except Moreno are republicans, and perhaps she did.. *sigh*

Based on their questions, Moreno and Werdegar are on our side though, I believe..

[t0dd]

36. This guy talking now is stupid

Justice Werdegar is saying that what a revision exactly is has never been defined. She is suggesting with her questioning that in this situation there is the potential for the court to broaden their perspective of what a revision really is. He isn't making a convincing argument... blah

[Hepburn]

37. Well, there 7 justices....

...and we need 4 to get gay rights to marriage put back were it belongs...so if we get 2 more, we should be OK. Assuming you are correct on those two....and I agree with you on this.

Gads, I am sooooooooo sending strong thoughts toward Sacramento on this.

[Hepburn]

29. Yep....

...Pubbie from USC. :puke:

[cboy4]

58. Oh we're screwed with her.

And she seems all pissed off that she's being bothered.

Fuckin A

[Hepburn]

27. Pictures of the Cal Sup Justices

To help you recognize who is doing the questioning:



Pictured en banc in the Supreme Court Courtroom in Sacramento are the court’s seven justices, from left to right: Associate Justice Carlos R. Moreno, Associate Justice Joyce L. Kennard, Associate Justice Kathryn Mickle Werdegar, Chief Justice Ronald M. George, Associate Justice Ming W. Chin, Associate Justice Marvin R. Baxter, and Associate Justice Carol A. Corrigan

Link with more info:

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/justices.htm

[Hepburn]

30. Ming was appointed by Pete Wilson...

....FYI.

[noiretextatique]

32. i have condifence in the court

:kick:

[Hepburn]

33. Well, they stood up for what was right before....

...maybe they will have the balls and ovaries to do it again.

I can only hope....:hi:

[noiretextatique]

41. unless they are total hypocrites

i don't see how they can reverse their previous ruling. i feel very confident :hi:

[Hepburn]

45. Thoughts are electrical impulses....look toward Sacramento and send, OK?

:hi:

I am sending as many impulses as I can...and hoping it hits some of the idiots like Kennard!

[noiretextatique]

51. no problem...i am in oakland

so my thoughts don't have far to travel :7 i'm listening to the hearing and Kennard had been asking some interesting (and surprisingly sympathetic) questions. she just asked a question about the revision vs. amendment issue, and the response the attorney gave was very clear and emphatic. i think Kennard is on our side so far.

[Hepburn]

53. Keep pitching their way!

I am down by Long Beach...so my impulses are prolly a bit weak when they get to Sacramento!

:hi:

[cboy4]

34. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE THAT WE'RE HAVING TO BEG

FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.

First, begging to the voters.

And now begging in front of a court.

IT IS FUCKING DISGRACEFUL and I'm FURIOUS.

Yes I am

[Hepburn]

35. I am pissed off royal...totally pissed off about this and....

...I am straight. I cannot begin to imagine how those who are GLBT must feel about this. To make a legally binding agreement with someone you love in order to legally cement your rights and obligations under the law...how the hell more fundamental can anyone get than that?????

Fuck this bullshit...GAY RIGHTS NOW!!!!!!

[Iggo]

38. I can't (shouldn't, really) watch streaming video at work.

Can someone please tell me:

Is the pro-hate argument for compelling justification simply "because we voted for it"?

Again, I wish I could watch, but I can't.

[Hepburn]

39. More legal than that....

...a really brief summary is that: How is the Cal Const amended? Can it be done the way it was done last November? More technical and legal than cuz the voters said so.

[Iggo]

40. Thank you.

:hi:

[Hepburn]

43. No problem....

...IMO, I don't think that the voters can amend the Cal Const in the way that Prop H8 went down.

Just hoping the Cal Supremes feel that way, too!

:hi:

[Iggo]

44. Yeah, me too.

But I get scared when I see something that should be obvious, yet is still being argued.

Turns my gut, it does.

[Hepburn]

46. Prop H8 is just soooooooooooo WRONG.

What if they did this to blacks, Hispanics, Roman Catholics, women or any other minority group? What stops the voters from doing this to another minority?

:shrug:

[cboy4]

47. Therese Stewart isn't taking any shit.

I love the way she argues. :loveya:

And STFU Joyce Kannard.

:puke:

[Hepburn]

50. Amen to that!

:applause:

[JackBeck]

48. And for those on Twitter, you can follow:

@JoinTheImpact

@nclrights

and @jeffsheng (who is tweeting some amazing pictures)

[Hepburn]

52. Atty from the Cal AG's office is up.

He is arguing Jerry Brown's POV ~~ Prop H8 = illegal.

He says its a revision. This, again, is the issue: Can the Cal Const be altered in this manner.

He is pretty cool so far ~~ he even got the justices to laugh when he walked up to the lecturn to argue.

He is saying that there is a flaw ~~ H8 changes the structural setting of the Cal Const. A revision of our structural govt ~~ and the voters cannot do this.

AG's position: Initiative Amendments cannot be used to take away a fundamental right.

[Hepburn]

54. Cal AG's office:

Prop H8 = unConstitutional.

Interferes with "right to liberty" in the Const.

AsstAG cites that in last go round on this, ct found that marriage was a fundamental right. -- my summary of what he is saying.

Limit on the legislature's power to interfere with "right to liberty." Therefore the legislature cannot interfere.

Basically: He is saying if the leg cannot interfere, then voters cannot do the same.

B-word Justice is saying that is NOT what the court said on the last go-round on this.

Question from B-word Justice: Can the people with const power take what court did and change it?

AsstAG agrees...now B-word is asking what the difference is.

CJ George just took over the questioning.

[keepCAblue]

60. CA AG's lawyer is hurting our case...he is horribly unprepared.

Someone get a hook and pull him the hell off that podium.

[Hepburn]

62. I thought he did a decent job....

...but who knows...:shrug:

He also got a lot of tough questioning and did not lose his cool.

JMHO

[Hepburn]

55. CJ George:

His questioning is on "the right to privacy." Distinguishing between Fed and St law.

AsstAG: Right to liberty is the issue.

[Hepburn]

56. Marv Baxter came out of the fog and asked a question....

....about the death penalty.

Talking about "the dignity of man."

:shrug:

[cboy4]

61. Doesn't Kennard seem pissed off....as though she's being

bothered and teh gays have a nerve to waste everyone's time?

Ughhh, it's so frustrating.

And the deputy AG isn't quite as smooth and confident as Stewart, unfortunately.

They should let her speak. lol

[Hepburn]

64. She does have an abrasive style....

...and she does ask tough questions. But...it seems like she does the same to all concerned.

George questioning again ~~ Back to the same issue: Can the voters change the Cal Const in the way it was changed?

Seems to me that is the ultimate question.

[Hepburn]

59. We are going round and round....

...and the issue keeps coming back to:

Do the people of Cal have the right to amend the Cal Const by the initiative process.

AG: Yes...but that does not mean that they (the people) have the right to take away fundamental rights through this process.

[cboy4]

63. Oh look who's up .. Mr. I'm pathetically obsessed with

blow jobs.

You'd think I'd hate him less by now.

Nope!

[Hepburn]

65. Talk about a steaming pile of shit.

Ken Starr....:puke:

[ronnykmarshall]

84. Thank god I'm watching ..

but thanks for the play by plays you kids.

Ken Starr can rot in hell.

[Hepburn]

66. GMAFB....

....marriage has a traditional meaning....so gays should not be allowed to marry?

I am soooooooo sick of that fucking bullshit.

One also marries seasonings when cooking ~~ :eyes:

This is sooooo lame!

[cboy4]

67. Starr seems to be having his ass handed to him on a platter.

Every other word is, "...if I can all due respect..." :eyes:

Not predicting anything, but he's definitely on the defense.

[Hepburn]

69. I did hear some good news:

The H8 supporters are not looking for retro-active application.

[keepCAblue]

68. That they are spending so much time arguing the fate of the 18,000 ssm couples

suggests the justices will UPHOLD Prop 8...if they were not inclined to uphold it, the issue of the validity of the pre-existing marriages would be a moot point.

[Hepburn]

70. I agree with your POV.

But I do think that if the H8ers had argued that the gay marriages which were legal when performed would become void, that would be a bad position to take.

[GodlessBiker]

73. Please. That makes sense but don't depress me.

[keepCAblue]

88. Allred's attorney also alluded to this in his rebuttal. Legal analysts yesterday....

were putting forth this speculation, so it is not just my POV, but rather that of those in the legal "know" who are monitoring the case.

[Hepburn]

71. There seems to be a semantics game going on here...

...about the use of the word "marriage."

[keepCAblue]

72. Kennard: "...do you really think the sky has fallen in just because Prop 8 passed?"

What a effing *C* !!!!

And she is rumored to be a closeted lesbian, yet can so grossly minimize the importance of our civil rights.

[Hepburn]

74. That just is NOT anything that evidences a judicious manner on the bench.

Out of fucking line ~~ and I don't give a shit what her orientation is.

She acts like those who are requesting equal rights are out of line and being silly.

Fuck her.

[NMMNG]

76. Someone should ask if the sky would fall if we had marriage rights

Or maybe ask her if the sky would fall if we went back to the time when only men were allowed to have jobs (which means she wouldn't be there asking that question). GAH! I hate freaking privileged people who can't grasp how hateful it is when others are denied what they take for granted. :grr:

[Hepburn]

79. It concerns OTHER people and that is why she does not give a shit.

I wonder if she has any respect for those who have argued for the rights of others in the past? Like MLK and Susan B. Anthony. Wonder if she would feel that sky was not falling if they took away a woman's right to vote or voted in Jim Crow laws?

[Hepburn]

75. Gads, can Stewart argue!

:applause:

Excellent job that gets it down to the basics!

[t0dd]

85. She was so passionate about it too.

Almost made me tear up how vehemently she argued her case

[Hepburn]

89. I am a retired lawyer and I have done a lot of trial work and...

...a lot of appellate work. That lady is great! I used to sit a mediator on one of the courts of appeal ~~ and she is really good, IMO, at framing the appellate issues. And her delivery? Yep, made me want to tear up not only for the passion, but to watch another female lawyer who knew her stuff and was so professional ~~ made me very proud.

:hi:

Stewart....:patriot: I take my hat off to that lady!

edit for typo

[keepCAblue]

77. Kennard now back-pedaling on what she said in previous decision

Kennard just revealed her position that she will UPHOLD Prop 8 and she is considered the swing vote. We lost.

[Hepburn]

78. Oh, she is "distinguishing" the issues....

...in one case, marriage is a right...but in this case, apparently it is not.

:eyes:

[t0dd]

80. But Corrigans opinion has shifted, in my view

Think about the questions she asked. I wouldn't give up all hope

[Hepburn]

81. Well, it ain't over until the fat lady sings...

...and I am hoping the Cal Supremes do the right thing one more time.

[keepCAblue]

87. My only hope is that IF Kennard is in fact a lesbian, as has been reported...

...perhaps she and fellow justices are concerned of a backlash against their decision based on a charge by the Yes on 8 mob of conflict of interest, as was just reported today re: the Canadian judge whose decision paved the way for ssm in Canada. Kennard, to prevent any charges of impropriety -- or perhaps to prevent being viciously outed -- might be bending over backwards to the Yes on 8's side. And if Corrigan has changed position, that might enable the bench to invalidate prop 8 without giving the Yes on 8 people any ammunition with which to call into question either the court's decision or to subject Kennard's private life to a witch hunt.

Still, one has to ask why should Kennard need to do this (excepting that she is a Republican and closeted)? If a court were hearing a case involving a black civil rights case, would a black justice need to be recused because of "conflict of interest" or subjected to vicious attacks by the public if they don't.

No.

[keepCAblue]

93. Correction to my own post...It is Justice Carol Corrigan who is lesbian

...and living with her long-time partner. Corrigan was one of the three DISSENTING votes for the In re: Marriage Cases decision in May 2008. Unbelievable.

[noiretextatique]

82. the court just adjourned

ken :hurts: starr's arguments were :hurts: he's like a bad penny. i thought the challengers presented a much more coherent case, especially attorney stewart.

[JackBeck]

83. Jerry Brown is being heckled by the Yes On 8 crowd as he speaks outside of the courthouse.

Tweets flying to get people over to the courthouse on the right across the street.

[ronnykmarshall]

86. I fucking HATE THOSE PEOPLE!!!

[Hepburn]

90. Ronny....

...they are just some of the vermin of life that needs to be washed away!

Don't let them get to you....IMO, we will win! :hug:

[ronnykmarshall]

91. Have I told lately ....

that I love you????

Thank you honey.

You made my cry happy tears for that.

:loveya:

[Hepburn]

94. Hey, Sweet Fella....

...thank you for the wonderful messsage.

I was gone and busy and I did not see it right away...so sorry my "thank you" took a bit!

:loveya:

Your hubbie is a lucky guy! :hi:

[bluedawg12]

92. I caught a snippet - Ken Starr arguing for the tyranny of the majority.

why doesn't that surprise me from a repug hack? :grr: