Question For GLBTQ Users Of Tarot......

[queerart]

So quickly......


I'm in the middle of a project..... (creating a Tarot deck that centers around the experience of Gay life in the Concentration Camps). Survival in the camps (as best as I can understand it) using "Richard Plants" book as a reference: "The Pink Triangle" ....whom actually lived through the barbarous ordeal.


I've tried not to "dwell heavily" on the ghastly, and macabre.... of course the deck could hardly be described as a "Pollyannic Romp" either... in the end, I hope the cards will have a good balance.....


(just a side note) There was a "Tarock Deck" made about camp life by "Boris Kobe" (whom I DO NOT think was Gay) while being held in Allach Concentration Camp. It's an incredible accomplishment considering the the hellish pressures he was under with just daily life, not to mention a severe lack of materials to design, and make such a luxury item as a Tarock Deck....


Here is a link to the deck should anyone want to see it (click on the cards to enlarge them):

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/museum/responses/kobe/index.html


Now my question for Tarot users:


Do You Think It Is "Disrespectful" To The Gay Forefathers To Design Such A Tarot Deck Around This Experience From History?


I didn't start the project with any thoughts of malice, or torment for others.... but rather a way to remember what Gays should never forget. Needless to say that I've come into contact with a few individuals that are less than thrilled about my subject matter.....


Hence, the question......



Thanks In Advance To Anyone Willing To Post Their Thoughts On The Topic... Whether Yea, Or Nea.....

[WillParkinson]

1. I do not know much about the Tarot....

But how could it ever be deemed disrespectful to remember history, no matter what form you put it in? History can be passed along through the written word, by tales told round the campfire, or any other number of ways. You said you have no thoughts of malice or to torment others. I do not see any reason to think you would do otherwise.

[queerart]

2. If Only I Could Reach Through My Laptop.....

... and give you a huge Bear Hug.......


You make perfect sense, and it's the way I feel as well.....


I've always respected what you have had to say... and with that.... you have taken a great burden off my mind.....


I shall continue with my project.... Hell, or High Water (so to speak)........


Thanks For Taking The Time To Offer Your Opinion..... It Was Much Appreciated....

[Behind the Aegis]

3. This is probably one of the most interesting questions I have EVER seen at DU.

The Tarot is generally used to 'shed light' on a situation. The practitioner will use a deck with which s/he is comfortable. Sometimes, a deck will be chosen by who the querent is. So, with the two aforementioned issues, are you trying to "market" your product or is this more of an art project and if some sell, then that is OK?

As for the topic, it is one more way to transmit history. However, it is very important on how those images are created and what they will symbolize beyond the esoteric.

FWIW, I find it an interesting genre, but there is absolutely no way I would ever use them to read for someone or have them used on me.

[queerart]

4. Many Thanks For Your Thoughts On The Topic.....

The deck would be a "personal deck"... but since I do read for others.. this is the deck that I would be using to do my readings.


I honestly had no forethought about marketing the cards.... (I think maybe that is where a few folks became uncomfortable with my choice of subject as they thought I was going to make money off of the idea)..... But I have to say with the strong emotions that the idea has evoked.... I wouldn't be surprised if they could be sold.....


The idea was simply to do a deck that I felt some kind of connection with, and to remember those that came before me. I'm simply unable to articulate why I am driven to do such a deck that deals with Gays during the Holocaust.... say rather than a "Oscar Wilde Deck", or a "Harvey Milk Deck", or a "Gertrude Stein Deck", or even a "Stonewall Forefathers Deck"....


But there I am......


Thanks Again For Your Thoughts......

[XOEnterprises]

6. I think, if you feel compelled to do it, and its for personal use,

then go for it. My brother was dabbling in runecasting a few years ago, and his book warned him away from bone runes because of the death aspect, but then suggested keeping them in a leather bag. Didn't make much sense to us, but...

I think that it all depends on the ends. After all, David Bowie got quite a bit of crap for being so interested in Nazis (and rightly so, he did say some very stupid things regarding them), but he also wrote some haunting beautiful songs about the Holocaust and the impact on Berlin because of his interest.

[queerart]

10. Many Thanks For Your Reply.....

Your post made a lot of sense...

Many Thanks For Taking The Time To Reply....

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Here's a thought....

...instead of focusing solely on the Holocaust, why not make it a gay history deck?

Personally, I would never allow someone to read for me from a deck that was solely the Holocaust, no matter the intention. The hate, negativity, fear, and other emotions associated with that event would be overpowering.

[queerart]

11. I Do Appreciate Your Thoughts......

Being in the middle of the project.... I'll just have to think things over a bit....

[Tex-Slim]

5. Since you asked

Yes, I do think it's a rather hideous idea... aren't there a world of other, better things on which to base the design of a deck?

On the other hand, what do I know?

Then again, isn't the answer to your question contained in your original motivation for asking it?

[queerart]

12. I'm Not Sure I Follow....

But I do appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts.....

[Marrah_G]

7. I don't get the connection between holocaust and tarot.....

I've seen alot of tarot decks...but none based on a specific historic atrocity before.

I have to be honest and say that I find it bizarre and would be concerned about the sort of energy it would attract.

The holocost brings up feelings/imagery of angry and sadness and pain.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. It depends on where you want to go with it, I guess

Consider the juxtaposition of Judgement and the gas chambers. Judgement typically shows the dead being called forth to their immortal reward. One common interpretation is a balancing of accounts, where the wicked are punished and the innocent recompensed for their suffering. Another interpretation is a letting go of the past, remembering what has happened but not allowing that rememberance to remain a fearful monster.

Consider the juxtaposition of The Lovers with Saint Maximillian Kolbe, a Polish priest who gave sanctuary to Jews during the Nazi persecutions and who, as a result, was arrested and sent to Auchwitz. When a prisoner in his barracks disappeared, the deputy camp commander selected 10 people to be killed as an object lesson for the rest of the prisoners. Fr. Kolbe was not selected, but he offered to take the place of a man who was, on the hope that the camp would be liberated and he would be able to return to his wife and children (he did.) Most early Tarot decks depict The Lovers as a man who must make a difficult choice between two women, one representing fleeting pleasure and one representing lasting virtue.

These are very powerful images. For me, they would be far too powerful to use in divination. As art, however, or as a rememberance project, I think the Tarot would be a fascinating medium of expression.

[queerart]

14. Your Post Made A Lot Of Sense......

and gave me a lot to think about.... (and not that you were trying to mind you).....


But your post also gave me a few ideas, should I continue with the project......


I knew the emotions surrounding such a deck would be intense, and I'll always have detractors no matter what... that will say...


"Couldn't you have chosen a more appropriate subject"....


But after reading Richard Plant's book, it makes one aware that there is "light", as well as "dark" in everything... including in his hellish experience.....


Again (as I said in a earlier post)... the energy aspect is something to think about......


Thanks For Your Thoughts!

[queerart]

13. Thanks For Your Thoughts....

I don't get the connection between holocaust and tarot.....

Well, to be fair to the question I asked... (Is it disrespectful to the Gay Forefathers to make such a deck) I wasn't saying, nor even slightly implying that there is some type of a connection between the Holocaust, and Tarot.......


I mean.... I don't get the connection between Gummy Bears and Tarot either, but The Gummy Bear Tarot Deck does exist......

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/gummibear


Now when we speak of "energy".... that is something to think about......

[Marrah_G]

19. To be fair I dont get the gummy bear tarot either.......

[XemaSab]

15. What an interesting project!

The other day I read a letter from my great-uncle home after the war. His division liberated Dachau, and the descriptions are horrible. :cry:

[queerart]

17. Many Thanks For Your Kind Reply.....

It was very much appreciated....


I really do not want the deck to be "overly focused" on the macabre......


I guess I will just continue to work with the cards, and hope for lots of guidance.......

[MNBrewer]

16. In my experience

users of Tarot have very personal reasons for picking particular designs. I see no reason why one person's personal reason for creating the design should be construed as "disrespectful" if it's done respectfully. Sounds like you're coming from a place of respect, so how could the product be disrespectful? You can't control how other people will react, too, btw.

it will be as it will be.

[queerart]

18. Thanks......

I'm always interested in what you have to say.......


I have always felt when I've read your posts that you have "Midwestern Horse Sense"...... (and that is meant as a compliment... I just want to be clear as "simple text" can be fraught with misunderstandings)


... and you are correct that I will be unable to control how others may react to the project (so I had better zip my lip:))......


It was lovely for you to end with: It Will Be As It Will Be...... How very, very true......


Thanks Again!