Can I say something to all those rightfully offended by 'lifestyle choice'?

[sinkingfeeling]

I 'get' that this term is offensive to you.

I'm an old lady and I think that the term 'lifestyle choice' is a carry over from the past. If I remember correctly (and maybe my mind ain't as sharp as it once was), that term came into use in the 1970's, just when people began coming 'out of the closet'.

I think it implied that folks within the LGBT community had a 'choice' to either become open about their sexuality or to continue to live the lie that many had in the past. By that I mean, I knew gays and lesbians who married somebody of the opposite sex and assumed the 'lifestyle' of the heterosexuals.

I probably didn't pay much attention to plight of the gays for a couple of decades, until people began to speak of 'same-sex marriages'. I'm sorry for that and sorry if my ancient terminology has offended anybody in the past. I'm really trying to keep up with the progress the LGBT community (and I think now people are using a different acronym) is continuing to make.

[joeybee12]

1. I see what you're saying, but in the past several years it's almost exclusively

been used by those on the right to imply that it's a choice, a sinful choice in their opinion, like stealing something...that being gay is something you choose to do, and thereby something you can choose not to do. These days, it is really, really really really really offensive to use. Thanks.

[slackmaster]

2. I remember the term being used to describe unmarried heterosexual couples cohabiting

Also groups of people living in communes in the 1960s. All of that was before most people would discuss sexual orientation at all.

But it has certainly shifted to be a dysphemism for LGBTetc. people, carrying the implication that sexual orientation is the result of a conscious decision.

[Uben]

3. What about bi-sexuals?

Obviously they are attracted to both sexes, so wouldn't it be a "choice" to them? I have never thought about that aspect of it.
It's just a question because I honestly do not understand the way they are wired. I understand someone being born to be homosexual, but I seem to have a problem understanding bi-sexuality or pansexuality. They can't say they were born attracted to one particular sexual orientation because they are attracted to both. Is it a choice or not?

[bullwinkle428]

5. Again, people don't CHOOSE to feel attraction to people of

both genders; they just do!

[Ineeda]

4. I agree, sinkingfeeling, and I have questions for our friends on this forum

The blow-up about Valerie Jarrett has made me think about the importance of the vernacular associated with the GLBT community. I'll be honest. I need your help. I can hardly keep up, as I'm a white 62-year old straight, liberal woman with very little exposure to the GLBT community. My only nephew is gay and made some terrible life choices, but being gay was not one of them. We all knew he was gay by the time he was two and our entire family embraced who he is (until he did despicable things that had nothing to do with being gay.) He is estranged from the family now, so I can't ask him about this. I fully support equality for all and will never understand the objections to that. But back to vernacular. Years ago, I used to say 'sexual preference' even though I always knew preference had nothing to do with it. It was just the vernacular of the time. ‘Queer’ used to be bad, but it’s okay now? I used 'homosexual' as a general term, until someone told me recently that wasn't PC anymore. On DU, I see G-L-B-T and L-G-B-T and G-L-B-T-Q used, and just today, I saw G-L-B-T-I-Q. What is correct? Does the ‘Q’ mean queer or questioning? What does the ‘I’ stand for? Should I be on the lookout for more letters to be added? I truly would not want to offend.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Thanks, you asked the questions much better than I did.

[hendo]

8. I asked the same questin about the Q here yesterday

I still don't know what the I means.

[GodlessBiker]

9. Oh, for christ sake. You are connected to the Internet, aren't you? Intersexed. Look it up.

[hendo]

10. Well, at least now I know what it stands for so that i can look it up ;)

Thank you :)
edit: why not keep it as hermaphrodite?

[NMMNG]

15. ....

[hendo]

19. Odd to see both of them as red shirts

I hope they change before the visit the surface of the next planet they come across.

[Ineeda]

11. Nice attitude towards

someone who desires to be sensitive, respectful and supportive. BTW, I was the poster who questioned the 'I', while Hendo questioned the 'Q' (as did I.) Still no answer to that one. If you want those of us not knowledgeable about the LGBTQI culture to be accurate, the friendlier way to help is not "Oh, for christ sake...Look it up." WE are not your enemy.

[hendo]

18. The answer to my Q question is in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x166533

I still wonder when hermaphrodite fell out of favor.

[Meldread]

20. Yes! Too many letters!

I kind of laugh at it now. It used to be GLBT (Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, and Transgendered). Then, according to what I've been told, there was some event somewhere (I think Chicago) where lesbians were angry over the G coming before the L. They threatened to walk out. So it was changed to LGBT. That could be an urban legend, but that's the story I heard - and the reason it is now LGBT. Later on I and Q were added for Intersexed and Questioning.

I'm waiting for more letters to show up, we need at least one more: "A" for Allies. :P

LGBTIQA! (Pronounced: Lug-be-tick-a!)

Yes, it's crazy - I know. By the time I'm in my nineties we're going to just start with A and end with Z, and call it the queer alphabet.

A - Stands for Allies
B - Stands for Butches
C - Stands for Cubs
D - Stands for Daddies
E - Stands for "...umm... Mommy, can I say this word?" :P

In all seriousness, in casual conversation with friends I just use the term "queer." I kind of hate labels, but humans are a tribal species so we're constantly trying to put people into their proper box. I use queer as an inclusive term - short hand for anyone who would normally fall within the GLBT++++ group. Then I refer to straights as "queer allies" and such. On the other hand, I know some older gays and lesbians shudder when they hear the word – in the minds of some, it's the near equal to fag and fagot. That's changed over time though, but it depends on who uses it and in what context. It's okay, in my view, for a straight woman to identify herself as being "a part of the Queer community fighting for Queer causes."

I like to cast the broadest net possible, because I do feel that our community has a tendency to be difficult for 'outsiders' to penetrate. Straights often feel uncomfortable confronting gay people, as you and the OP did here, afraid that you'd be met with hostility. When you've spent a lifetime of being slapped in the face, when a stranger holds out their hand to shake yours, it is only natural that you recoil or steel yourself in preparation for the slap. Sadly, past events are not indicative of future events, and if we build a giant wall to protect ourselves all we do in the process is keep potential allies out.

If you have any questions, but don't feel comfortable asking them in the open forum feel free to private message me. I'll answer them to the best of my ability.

[Ineeda]

22. Wow - Thank you Meldread!

Thanks for your Kind and comprehensive answer to my questions. You clearly understand the dilemma we "Allies" often face. When good intentioned, supportive straight people like me are rebuffed or looked upon with scorn, it doesn't help the effort. As I said upthread, I am not the enemy. I don't walk in your shoes, so can't experience the depth of pain and anger and injustice you feel, but I can work alongside you to make it better. I have great hope that it will be better, and soon.

[Ozymanithrax]

6. LIfestyle choice, as used by the religious right and conservatives means...

people choose to be gay, at least in current usage.

From what I've read of real research, Gender appears to be more complex than just which sex organs a person carries around. So being GLBT or Heterosexual isn't a lifestyle choice but mental wiring that tends to be what each person is born with. However, I tend to think that living in the closset or coming out is a choice of how one lives.

If ancient Greece or ancient Israel can be called up as examples, there appears to be a cultural input. From what I've read, they were close to opposits on the acceptablitly of the variablily in Gender. Western cultures inherited the intolerance of variability from the Judeo Christian part of our culture.

[Zenlitened]

12. Gender identity regards the "T" in GLBT, not necessarily the G, L or B. FYI.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. I was thinking of gender in a broader context then identity.

But thank you.

[Zenlitened]

14. I'm not sure what you mean. Could you eleborate?

I don't understand what you're saying about gender and orientation. What am I misreading here?

[Ozymanithrax]

16. In my last college biology course that covered gender and sexuality sex was determined by...

chromosomes and expressed most offten through male and female sexual organs. Gender, as explained to me, was what goes on in the brain, the way it is wired. In most cases people are wired as heterosexuals with attraction to the opposite sex. In about ten percent of the population, the brain was wired for attraction to the same sex. There was research showing this same tendancy in animals. The research I saw tended to indicate this happened before birth. This convinced me that homosexuality is not a choice but just the way people are put together. So you have your sex that will be male or female except for hermaphrodites, and gender that varies depending on how the brain is wired.

[Zenlitened]

17. Okay, I think I see what you're getting at.

I guess what's got me confused is seeing gender and sexual orientation used somewhat interchangeably:

This convinced me that homosexuality is not a choice but just the way people are put together. So you have your sex that will be male or female except for hermaphrodites, and gender that varies depending on how the brain is wired.

I think your biology professor might have been pointing out that there are two concepts at work here: gender identity and sexual orientation. Neither of which can be 100% predicted by a person's sexual organs, and neither of which is necessarily linked to the other.

Perhaps your professor was stating that sexual orientation, just like gender identity, exists in the brain? That "sex" (as in one's physical sexual characteristics) does not = sexual orientation, just as it does not = gender identity?

In any event, I agree with your conclusion: Who we are is based on what's between our ears, not what's between our legs.

:)

[johnnypneumatic]

21. no, I don't think that is correct

It isn't either gay or hetero
it is a continuum, and the majority are bisexual, or would be if social pressure didn't skew people to think of themselves as one category or another.
If sexual orientation wasn't an issue, people wouldn't have to proclaim themselves to be heterosexuals in order to retain respect from their family and friends, or to avoid persecution.
It is the extreme "environmental" homophobic social and religious conceptualizations and peer pressure that pushes people to identify themselves as "gay" or "straight", and leaving the reality of bisexual orientations as non-existent.

Kinsey had it right, but they needed to separate sexual experiences from sexual identity and orientation...

for example:

For my actual sexual experiences, regardless of how I may think of myself as being gay, bisexual, or hetero, I have been (0,1,2,3,4,5,6)
* exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual (0)
* predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual (1)
* predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual (2)
* equally heterosexual and homosexual (3)
* predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual (4)
* predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual (5)
* exclusively homosexual (6).

versus

For my internal thoughts and feelings, regardless of any sexual experiences I may have had (I may even be a virgin to any sexual experience), I would think of my true self as being, or I would be more likely to be attracted to or fall in love with a male or female in this ratio (0,1,2,3,4,5,6)
* exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual (0)
* predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual (1)
* predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual (2)
* equally heterosexual and homosexual (3)
* predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual (4)
* predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual (5)
* exclusively homosexual (6).

often, these numbers are different...