Should I delete the bigoted comment or let it stand...

[stevenleser]

I've been reading the debates here in GLBT about whether bigoted comments should be deleted or replied to forcefully and allowed to stand with a good response.

A week ago I uploaded a video to Youtube that, among other things, excoriated Michele Bachmann for the bigoted things she said a day or two earlier. The video can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PZwQalcKu4

I got an email late last night that someone had responded to the video. All commments can be seen here ---> http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=6PZwQalcKu4

The comment started with "Gays already have equality with marriage... Gay can have hetrosexual marriage just like hetrosexuals can"

My first impulse was to delete the comment. Then I remembered the debate here. Should I delete it? If not, do you all here want to assist me with coming up with a suitable response. Do you want to respond yourselves?

[Taverner]

1. Keep it. Like my T Shirt says: "I love Freedom of Speech...It lets us know who the idiots are"

[stevenleser]

3. I have to be honest, I am still leaning toward deleting it. But, based on the consensus here...

if we come up with a suitable response that I think lays it all out well, I'll let it stand.

[Drale]

2. If you upload something on to Youtube you should never ever

allow comments, unless you want to hear the most horrible things in the world. You could upload a video of a kitten and people will post anti-gay slurs.

[stevenleser]

5. I hear you, but I really don't want to have to do that.

Taking away all of the ability of those who watch to comment because of the jerks just doesnt seem like what I want to do. Like I said to Taverner, I'm leaning toward deleting ugly comments.

[RandomThoughts]

4. The conceptual arguement for that is.

To remove the bigoted comment is to say people will be influenced by it in a way that may change there views, in that it is censorship, with worry that people wont see it for being bad.

The other part is to protect people that get hurt by hearing such concepts.

And there is a thought that people need to learn how to have their own filters so they can not be controlled, but instead learn how to find what is better in a forum or anywhere else, and learn to think and know some stuff they have to reject as invalid comments.

By censoring you remove the need for the individual to learn to handle people like that, and you remove them having to learn to handle some hard feelings such things could create. That form of censorship is the reason excommunication is used for example, to protect the weak from bad ideas as thought by some group thought of as responsible for some communication issue.

So the question is, is it better for the readers to see what is said and have to learn to think and disregard what does not make sense, or should you make that decision for many people by being the filter they could learn to use for themselves.


And that also assumes you know what is offensive and what is not, in some cases it is clear, but many times that same mechanics gets used for the benefit of the censor, not for the good of those being censored. It can also be used by some doctrine that is wrong, to keep people from seeing that it is wrong, and actually much of censorship is used that way.

Easiest way to think of it is if someone questions some doctrine someone teaches, if it is an honest argument with valid points, and may be correct, many times it gets blacklisted becuase it would challenge the people who like being in control of what people think.


The fun thing is the rules applied back on censors depending if it is done for there own interest, or for the good of some group.

That is how I think on that topic to think if some censorship is warranted.

[msongs]

6. its YOUR youtube post, do whatever you want lol nt

[stevenleser]

7. What I want to do is solicit advice from the LGBT community. n/t

[stevenleser]

8. I felt I needed to get something out there so I went with this:

"I do not accept ethnocentrism or bigotry in any form, neither against race, religion, gender, sexual orientation nor any other designation. The only reason I have not as yet removed this comment, as I am leaning toward doing, is that I have not made up my mind whether that is going to be my policy going forward regarding bigoted comments to my videos. Gay rights and Gay marriage are civil rights. To deny them is to deny what is Constitutionally and morally right."

[yardwork]

13. imo, since you asked, that response would be meaningless. Hardly anybody will understand it.

Certainly the person who can't even spell heterosexual won't understand one word in ten of that convulated response that you are considering.

Maybe just say "gay rights are human rights" and leave it at that.

ymmv

[WatsonT]

9. I'm generally opposed to censorship

any legitimate opinion should be allowed to stand.

/doesn't mean a correct opinion, merely something other than repeated spam posts.

[mitchtv]

10. the problem here on DU is

if you delete said post, the next thing you will hear is "there;s no bigotry here", or DU is free of bigotry, etc . It isn't analagous with a youtube however. dump it

[RetiredTrotskyite]

11. Leave it up.

Let it stand as the stupidity and bigotry that it is. At some point hopefully a poster will call them on their ignorance. If not people can still see the ignorance for themselves.

[plantwomyn]

12. You should be able to think this through yourself.

What do you believe? Why do you think the comment was bigoted?

I just don't understand why you can't come up with a decent answer for yourself. It really isn't that hard to figure out why the comment is illegitimate. It's basically as legitimate as saying "The Constitution protects your religious rights and long as you are a Christian."

Oh and you might want to explain that those of us who ARE married DO NOT have equal protection of the laws or due process.

[yardwork]

14. Seconded, as a second half to my response.

We're sure that you can figure this out for yourself.

And, think about this. In addition to going through life without equal rights, while working just as hard as everybody else to make a living and achieve health and happiness, we have to hold the hands of people who supposedly care about equal rights and instruct you.

Please.

[stevenleser]

27. Most people can figure most things out given enough time

Then again, getting input from two or three folks intimately familiar with a situation usually helps things along quality and speed wise.

That assumes of course that attempts to reach out for help arent only received by mean nasty people who slap the hand that is reaching out. Fortunately, most people responding tried to help. And they did.

[yardwork]

28. When somebody denies the Holocaust around me I don't have to run to a Jewish person.

I know how to respond already.

[stevenleser]

30. AS a Jewish person and son of a holocaust survivor, I can tell you that if someone did reach out to

me about that, and many people do reach out to me on anti-semitism issues once they know my family history, I discuss it with them and offer whatever assistance they need. I think you will find that most people of discriminated against groups behave that way.

[yardwork]

31. I respect that, but would you really expect people on DU to need help like that?

Did you really not know how to respond to a homophobic bigot before you asked here? Really?

I think that you know perfectly well how to respond to bigotry, and I believe that you regularly do so in your life. I believe that you sincerely care about furthering progressive causes, including equal rights for gay people, and that you know how to do those things already.

I think that you started this thread because you wanted affirmation of that from people on this board. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it's very understandable. I just think that you ought to admit it instead of getting pissy at us for pointing out.

No offensive intended, I mean it.

[stevenleser]

32. Yes, and most people responded with help and suggestions.

Just like would happen if you reached out to most other discriminated against groups.

I have no idea why you want to attribute some sort of hidden agenda to what I did. I can only tell you that as I went to deal with this issue, I remembered a discussion in this very forum on whether deleting bigoted comments (against anyone, not just the LGBT community) was the best way to handle things like this. So, as I went to compose this OP, I thought I would make my question to the community broader, not just "Should I delete" but "Suggestions for the response".

The other thing is, this is not a 'one-off' issue. I'm trying to decide how I will handle things like this going forward so I can be consistent. Whether the bigotry is aimed against Jews, the LGBT Community, African Americans, etc I'm trying to decide if I am going to delete these comments. I'm really grateful for the responses here to this OP that have contributed to that decisionmaking process and I am ready to announce my decision.

I am going to let the bigoted responses 'live' for 3-7 days. I am going to post responses immediately detailing my feelings on such things and how the response will not live for more than a week.

That way, the offender gets any attempt I can make to educate them (I know, it will not work in 99.999999% of cases, that is OK), but their bigotry is not there forever.

[MNBrewer]

15. get up on the wrong side of the bed

much?

GEEZ

[yardwork]

16. I'm right there with her. This OP irked me. I explain why above.

[MNBrewer]

17. I think the appropriate response is

that we should ALSO have same sex (gay) marriage so that heterosexuals also have the opportunity to marry someone of the same gender.

Just to make it fair.

[yardwork]

18. That is a good response!

[thanks_imjustlurking]

19. Oh, most excellent!

:applause:

[stevenleser]

22. Adding it now. n/t

[stevenleser]

21. "I just dont understand why you can't come up with..."

Suffice to say that no matter how good of a writer you are, sometimes, you want to tap the knowledge and advice of other people to make sure you get something right that is particularly important to you.

For what it's worth, the advice of people who offered it was very useful. And I want to give big hugs to those who emailed me privately. You know who you are!

[jillan]

20. I would respond with "More proof of this video's message" & leave it.

Let everyone see what a closed-minded asshole sounds like.

[queerart]

23. I For One Am Proud Of You....

For making the video....


Thank You For Taking A Stand....


You Are Much Appreciated.........

[stevenleser]

26. Thank you!!!!

:hug:

[louslobbs]

24. Let them speak, I like to know my enemy.

Lou

[Zorra]

25. I know what I'd say, but it would be counter productive, and not at all appropriate

for your forum.;-)

Thank you so very much for the support!

[backscatter712]

29. Tell them now heterosexuals will get more rights.

If homosexuals have the right to engage in a heterosexual marriage, by overturning DOMA, heterosexuals get the right to enter into a gay marriage if they so choose. See, everyone gets more rights!

Seriously, I say keep the bigoted comment and rebut it.

[Deep13]

33. And if gay marriage is allowed...

...that poster will have same right to a gay marriage as you will.