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Ayesha Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:06 AM
Original message
An Open Letter to Straight People
Found this on Craig's List...well said.


An open letter to Straights

Apparently all this time I’ve been shoving my sexuality in your face and forcing it on you. I misunderstood. I didn’t know. I am so sorry.

I mistakenly thought it was you who were shoving your lifestyle in my face when you called me faggot before I even knew what that word meant.

I thought you were forcing your sexuality on me when you and your friends cornered me in the locker room after gym class in junior high school, called me a goddamn homo and beat the shit out of me.

I thought the coach was forcing his lifestyle on me when he shouted down at my broken and bleeding body in the locker room that I asked for it because I was looking at the other guys “funny”.

I thought you were shoving your sexuality in my face when you spray painted my name and “is a fag” on the side of the High school building.

When you and your friends trashed my car and then afterwards ran me off the road as I was walking home from school, laughing and calling me a “Queer” I thought I was just walking home from school and not forcing my sexuality down your throat.

I was mistaken and apparently trying to force my deviant lifestyle on you in college that day when thought I might be just trying to find someone like me to talk to when you and your cop friends entrapped me, arrested me and beat me up and threw me in jail because I looked at you the wrong way and smiled at you.

Apparently I asked for it when you and your friends chased me down the street, pulled me into an alley and broke my nose with a booze bottle after I had the gall to come out a known gay bar one night in college.

When I was in the military, I thought one of my friends might be just trying to live a decent, honorable life with his partner of 10 years when you and your military police friends pulled him into an interrogation room and accused him of sodomy because he was living with a guy and not dating women. When you kicked him out of the service and dumped him 3500 miles from his home with no money and no job, I didn’t realize that he was forcing his lifestyle on you. I’m sure he’s sorry too.

I didn’t realize that you were offended by us when my best friend asked to be admitted to his partners’ hospital room while he was dying. You see, he’d lived with him for 20 years and they had shared their life together but had the misfortune of living in a state where people like him had no “legal status” and so his sweet love of 20 years died alone surrounded by people who thought that God had given him AIDS as punishment for the sin of homosexuality. He didn’t understand that your religious sensibilities were more important than his misguided need to be with his partner when he died.

All this time I thought you were forcing your sexuality on me, but now I know that I was forcing mine on you. I am so sorry that all my life, I’ve mistakenly thought that being left alone to live my life, to work and to have a home and family and to be allowed to love who I choose was just living my life - like you live yours.

Little did I know that all that time I was cramming my disgusting sexuality and lifestyle down your throat, forcing you to accept me and demanding “Special Rights”.

Now that I’m older and wiser, you’ll excuse the silly idealism of a dotty middle aged guy who had a vain hope that maybe I could marry the guy I’ve been living with for fifteen years and not have to worry if my religiously devout family will decide to ransack my home after my death because my family – the family who have largely cared less if I lived or died – have more legal rights than my partner, no matter what I say in my will.

You’ll excuse my mistaken notion that I should be allowed to have a good job and not be fired at will because my boss might find out that I live with a guy and am still “single”. You’ll pardon my liberal sensibilities when I think I should be able to rent an apartment from someone who might decide that two guys living together is “an abomination”, or be able to open a joint checking account with my partner, because now I know that it isn’t “normal” for two guys to set up a home together.

Hopefully, you’ll excuse my mistaken notion that my life and my love and my family are at least as important and significant as yours – yes, even when you beat the shit out of your wife the day after she caught you fucking the underaged babysitter, even when you tossed your 15 year old gay son out on the streets, even when I gladly pay very high taxes to send your kids to good schools and you cheat on yours.

I hope you will understand when I was momentarily struck speechless when you raised up your bible and told me that God thinks that I am an abomination and will go to hell. You’ll excuse me for my silly notion that God maybe has other more pressing matters than to care that much if I decide that I want to live with someone I love instead of being alone and celibate. You’ll pardon my weakness when I want a family and have to do it by shoving my homosexual lifestyle in your face.

Finally, please excuse the silly sentimentality of an old man who after nearly six decades of life sees a movie with two “normal” guys who are cowboys who fall in love together. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen any people like me in the movies who aren’t silly and shallow or tragic and dying of something or another. It’s been years since I’ve seen someone like me love someone like my partner and not die because of it or end up some tragic stupid queen. So the movie made me happy and so I was momentarily blinded by the hope that it might be recognized as a watershed moment in tolerance. I now know it was a shameful use of one of your dearest symbols of American manliness to once again shove my disgusting lifestyle down your throat.

You’ll excuse me please.

All this time, all my life – I just thought you were trying to make me be something that I can never be. I just thought you were forcing me to conform to your idea of normality. I mistakenly thought you hated me.

I was mistaken. Obviously, all this time I was forcing my lifestyle on you. Please accept my apologies.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/139883238.html

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dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wonderful
That's simply all can say. Wonderful. Powerful, yet simple enough.

:kick::kick::kick:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes!
beautifully said
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. That letter should NOT be addressed to "straight people"
it should be addressed to the close-minded individuals who do that sort of thing. In my experience, the majority of people don't have a problem with queers in anyway, just a vocal minority.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. thank you
I was thinking it should be addressed to gay haters. I'm straight, and I have no hatred, contempt, or fear of gay people. I have a gay cousin, and he's one of the nicest people that I know.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Same here.
I've been freinds with both straight and gay all my life, and the truth be told, I think the acceptance of gays in America is a LOT bigger than Bush would have us believe.
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Agreed... most folks I know don't have any problem with GLBT's...
loving & having legal protections (such as "civil unions"). (Some are a bit hung up on the "Marriage" "sacrament" mem BS... but I'm slowly working on that. B-))

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
30. And, boy aren't they vocal!
It's really disgusting how vocal that close minded, petty, blessedly getting smaller every decade, group is. But now, with an administration that goads on the haters, they are becoming all the more shrill. I still believe that minority is losing this "culture" war, at least I hope they are.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
53. Indeed, it should be addressed to "Intolerant Straight People"
And leave the rest of us who are "straght but not narrow" out of it.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. for my Unka Eric
#3 and kick!
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. Simply amazing
:applause:
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Kicked and recommended. Very thought-provoking
Seeing the way that the right wing treats gays and lesbians is a huge reason I have become the liberal Democrat that I am today!
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm sending this to everyone I know! n/t
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987654321 Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for the post!
I shall pass it on.
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WildClarySage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. Lovely!
K&R
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. No recommendation from me. I'm offended
Thanks to the author for lumping me in with hateful bigots. I really appreciate it. As someone who has spent a lot of time and a considerable amount of money advocating for gay rights, I can't say I have much use for this letter, powerful as it is. All the author had to do was address it to straight people who are homophobic, or bigoted or whatever. It's a great letter, but it doesn't apply to millions of straight people.
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. It's an amazing & powerful letter except for that. There are many straight
folks out here that don't have any issue with GLBT's and are fighting for GLBT rights.

Although I was admittedly felt aa bit hurt I'll still K&R it because the rest is so powerful and I hate to "throw out the baby with the bath water" (as my beloved late MIL would have said).
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Everyone realizes this... or ought to.
>>>All the author had to do was address it to straight people who are homophobic, or bigoted or whatever. It's a great letter, but it doesn't apply to millions of straight people.>>>>

But he letter doesn't work as well, rhetorically, when qualified in the way you suggest. I don't think the letter is to be taken as literally as you seem to be taking it.

It also speaks to the 'soft bigotry' ( I believe our esteemed president... or one of his keepers... coined this phrase) of, for example, kids who are acting-out their homophobia before they.... or they victims... even know what they are talking about. ( paragraph 2 in the OP)

This applies to everyone ; and not just straight people, btw.

Thanks for your advocacy and support.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. I agree
and I didn't feel any twinge at all, because I know my POV on this issue makes me firmly in the camp not being spoken to. Of course, it's easy for me because despite being predominantly hetero, I am poly, so I face many of the same problems.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. Now you know how it feels to be pigeon-holed and stereotyped
As an atheist, I am constantly grouped together with people like Stalin and Pol Pot. As a gay man, I am constantly grouped with child molesters, rapists and murderers. It isn't a very comfortable place to be, is it?

I say this with the best intentions: Learn from the experience of being grouped together with people who are only incidentally like you. Remember the hurt and humiliation of being classed with strawmen so that you can be easily dismissed, ignored or demeaned. And keep in mind what you say to others, lest you do unto them what you so resent others doing unto you.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Well said.
People on top rarely like to be treated like the people on the bottom.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Thank you.
eom.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kipling Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. Just because the conservatives do it doesn't mean it's OK.
Although it is a good letter.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. What better way to reach someone than to put them in the shoes
of someone else? This is not about doing something conservatives do. This is about enlightening all straight people about the bigotry that gay people are faced with. If it makes a few straight people uncomfortable to be put in the same general category (straight people) as these hateful bigots who don't want equality for gay people, who hate them to the point of beating them up or denying them the right to die in peace with their partner, or simply the right to marry... then this writer has reached them.

I wouldn't be offended by a black person writing an essay about their oppression by white people directed to all "white people." I would however recognize that just by being white, I have a privilege that that person does not... that I have not had to experience the same horrid things simply because I'm white. I would understand why it was addressed to "white people" and not just to bigoted white people.

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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. Excellent, excellent letter.
All of us here can relate to this letter. That letter is so honest.

Thank you for posting this.
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5X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
17. Great letter and it should be sent to all of the right wing lists....
that usually send out their patriotic, smarmy drivel.

PS, I am straight, but not at all offended, I know it doesn't
apply to me and I don't have a guilty conscience.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. Beautiful and infuriating - I'm literally crying right now.
esp. the part about the guy with AIDS who died alone because his partner wasn't "family". :mad:
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
19. What a piece!
K&R!!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
20. k & r
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
21. Why be offended?
It is true even if we could prove that a majority of us would never behave like that. It is up to our community to change our community to stop this kind of behavior. Until we stop being offended and use this to change things nothing will ever change.

K&R
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Rainbowreflect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
22. Thank you for sharing that letter.
The pictures it paints break my heart. :cry:
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il_lilac Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
23. powerful letter
and i certainly took no offense. I am vocal and militant about gay rights and people who know me, know where I stand.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R
No one should have to suffer these indignities/cruelties just because they are who they are. We should work on a cure for hate.
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
27. Frankly,
I don't care if you fuck goats. As long as it is consensual and you don't ask me to do it, it's your business, not mine. I do, however, resent being portrayed as a homophobic bigot just because I am a lesbian, trapped in a mans body.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. See post #24 n/t
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
32. Thank you for posting this wonderful letter
It really should be an eye opener for some.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. I'm sorry
I'm sorry that the letter writer's experience has been such that he thinks the enemy is straights, not bigots. I can't be offended by it because there are and have been times and places where that perception would be realistic. After enough time being treated as a pariah, it's all you see in people.

I wish there was something I could say that would show him how many of us don't meet his description. I wish I could know that he has enough nonbigots around him so that it would even matter to him. I wish I could say it without showing my own bitterness that change isn't coming rapidly enough.
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TwentyFive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
34. Where does this Gay hatred come from?
Edited on Wed Jun-14-06 12:16 PM by TwentyFive
Well written essay. Made me think about the origin of homophobia.

Nobody (not even Bush or Fred Phelps) is born hating gays. Several societies have accepted homosexuality as natural. Native Americans referred to homosexuals a 'two spirits' meaning a combination of male and female. It was considered an advantage to be gay in Native American culture.

It wasn't until the disease called christianity took over and infected that cultural tradition. This same tragedy has happened many times over as catholics/christians have conquered various societies and cultures. Hatred of the human body and sexuality are two of the central tenets of christianity.

If we want to end homophobia (and other social ills), we must drive a stake through the heart of christianity and islam. The worst mistake is to try and moderate or liberalize them. Moderate/liberal christianity is shrinking/stagnant. All the growth is with right wing christianity. One only needs to look around at the proliferation of evangelical 'megachurches' where the dress is informal, christian rock blasts in the auditorium....but the preacher still condemns the homosexual as the tool of the devil.
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Kipling Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Several? Almost every culture has accepted homosexuality.
Romans, Greeks, Celts, Chinese, Japanese, New Guinean tribesmen, native americans, African bantu, Thai, Persian, Trukish, Saracen... the list just doesn't stop.
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. until you address that letter to "bigots," instead of "straights"
you've lost an ally. If it matters.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Until all straights support gay rights, it should be addressed to them.
Not just those who are clearly bigots, but those who think it's ok for us to not have the same rights as straights (so beautifully written about in that essay). It's to those people that this post should be directed. And many of those people are here on DU, and don't consider themselves bigots.

Take this for example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1424924&mesg_id=1425012

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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. So you're no longer going to support people's civil rights because you
didn't like a letter someone wrote, that's disgusting. You obvious never really cared about gay rights in the first place if you can just toss them out of the window on a whim.

I'm straight and I wasn't offended by the letter at all. It was not a letter to the editor but something larger to make a statement. It was not about specifics it was about larger concepts. Why don't you reread some of things in that letter and tell me how the miseries that people go through in this country because of their sexual orientation compare to you being offended by a letter that was not strictly literal.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. You are so right on with your post!
Very eloquently put! Thank you for your post and for your support. I'm glad there are straight people like you on our side. :hi:
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
36. very good rant! I would say it should be readdressed, though, to
gay haters. Most straight people I know would never do or say those things.
And, in an ironic point, many homophobes are fighting their own latent homosexuality when they beat up openly gay people.
Unfortunately, when the group that hates gays is SO virulent, violent and vehement, it certainly gives the impression they speak for a much larger group than they do.

that having been said, though, I applaud the rant.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Exactly.
I can't help being straight. Don't include me in with the ignorant people who treat people badly.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
38. K & R - but I suggest you address this version of the letter to homophobes
Edited on Wed Jun-14-06 01:11 PM by Nothing Without Hope
I believe that most straights would not be aggressive against gays, but they do need to stand up and fight for civil rights instead of ignoring this terrible injustice because it "doesn't affect them." These people might not attack gays, but they must be made to see the consequences of their noninvolvement in the ongoing persecution and be brought into the fight for civil rights for all. I'd like to see an additional version of the letter worded to reach these head-in-the-sand people. Whether they admit it or not, they live and work every day with gay people who are suffering, and some of their own children will be gay. And if they are caring human beings, Christian or otherwise, how can they in conscience walk away from this struggle "because it doesn't affect them"? We are all in this together, and we have to stand together.

Hitler attacked gays too, and though they are not mentioned in the following famous quotation, they are there in the groups who were not defended from the murdering Nazis because too many people thought "it didn't affect THEM." Standing by silently and allowing persecution and murder is acid eating away a person's spirit. It is utterly wrong.



In my opinion, one of the most powerful written pieces for reaching and moving the head-in-the-sand, doesn't-affect-ME people is the famous 2000 Sharon Underwood letter to the editor of a Vermont paper. For those who have not seen it, I posted it again recently. I strongly suggest people pass it on to others:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1365931
thread title (6-6-06): LTTE by a loving mother of a gay son - powerful and moving - pass it on
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
40. K&R. Nothing changes until ALL straight people support gay rights.
And that includes the right to marry and achieve equality. Until that happens, this man's experiences will continue to repeat themselves on others. Bigotry isn't always as plain to see as what he describes, but keeping gay americans second class citizens justifies the behavior of those who hate with that kind of venom. Until gay americans are considered equal to straight americans, through equal rights, that sort of people will continue to consider them the same way some people consider animals... as less than they are.

Thank you for posting this.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
41. What a fine letter.
I just don't have the words to express how powerful and thought-provoking this letter is to me. Reading this letter has definitely given me pause. I would love to find the man that wrote this letter, just so I can hug him and apologize for all of the hateful bigots that have hurt him in his lifetime. No person, gay or otherwise, should ever have to endure this kind of hatred for any reason.

Thank you so much for posting this.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. Go, get married, adopt babies and have a good life...
...it affects my heterosexual marriage and lifestyle in no way whatsoever. I've got enough problems trying to keep my own marriage together; it's hard work. Republicans should worry about divorce, child and spousal abuse and adultery affecting the sancitity of marriages. Why not amend the constitution to outlaw these real threats to marriage?? Godspeed and good luck.:toast:
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
47. Good letter but like other posters
I don't think it should be directed to straights because many straights support gay rights like myself.
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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I really don't think that part should be taken literally
I see that as a response to people saying gays and lesbians are forcing their lifestyles on people. It is just trying to prove a point to all the idiots who say that crap. ie "Gay people are forcing their lifestyle down your throat? No, it's you who is forcing your lifestyle." Just a little artistic license to prove the point.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Exactly.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. I understand but unfortunately there are also
GLBT people who are just as bad for gay rights. Just look at the self-loathing Mary Cheney. Anyhow, I like the column but dislike the title.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
52. kicked and recommended!
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
54. I am straight
That was in no way my choice when I was born, any more than my eye color, my hair color, or my blood type. Some people are born attracted to the same sex, some believe they are trapped in the wrong body, and some enjoy sex with either sex. They don't choose this, they are born with those traits.

A religion so hateful as to condemn people for being born a certain way is abhorrent to me. If you believe in a god, then you are also saying that some of the people that god created are evil, and I wonder how those people can reconcile those beliefs?

Love is always, always stronger than hate. What I see when I read what homophobic people write, or hear them say, is that a segment of the population must hide their feelings, and be denied rights granted others, simply because these hateful people do not "agree" with their lifestyle. How dare they claim for themselves the right to lead their own lives, but also dictate how others must lead theirs.

When these people agree to cede to another group who they may marry, what conditions they must work under, whether or not they can adopt children, then maybe we can talk about these same people dictating the rights that gays have. If the narrow minded bigots wish to convey their rights to gays, in exchange for dictating to gays, let's have a talk then. If they are not willing, then they can not dictate to others.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. What you say parallels the famous Sharon Underwood LTTE
in powerful defense of her suffering young gay son. If you have not already seen it, you really must read it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1365931

And pass it on.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Now there's a masterpiece; my favorite line:
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 06:00 AM by PaulHo
>>>>If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality.>>>>


That says so much.

About so many.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
56. Brokeback Mountain #SPOILER#
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 02:19 AM by Kire
One of the guys did die of "something or other"

It's not silly or stupid, but it is tragic.

kick and I would recommend, but the time has expired
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