Sorry to be pessimistic here.

[terrya]

But if either Obama or Clinton gets elected next November...I don't see the GLBT community getting anything from either an Obama Administration or a Clinton Administration in terms of legislation...in other words, no ENDA, no federal hate crimes legislation, no overturning of DOMA or DADT. There might be a couple of appointments of gay or lesbian people...but that's it. I sense them not being wildly enthusiastic about expending any political capital for us.

We've been down this path before. I'm dialing my expectations down to zero in terms of doing anything substantive for GLBT Americans.

[MADem]

1. If there are the "right kinds of promotions" at the Pentagon

(there have been many purges in the last eight years, unfortunately) you might see DADT go away, particularly if Clinton gets in, as that would be the fulfillment of a promise made by her husband.

It would probably start with four years of "non enforcement." Then, after the 2012 reelection, it would be repealed and the law changed.

[ForRusty]

2. The question is...

Which one has more balls to potentially write an executive order ending it? I still don't know. But I like Hillarys track record on our issues more then Obama's.

[mitchtv]

23. Rusty, all you have to do is consider

Obama's record in the McClukin affair. He dropped the gays like a hot potato, for a political reason. He has no will to stand up for us.

[GodlessBiker]

3. So, what do you suggest we do?

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. Well, for starters....

How about writing the various national, state and local community organizations and asking that they

A) Refuse to endorse any Democratic candidate -- we are going to be voting for them anyway, so an endorsement is pretty much pointless to begin with -- and

B) Release a statement saying that, based on their records and the record of the Democratic Party as a whole on GLBTQ issues, the organizations feels it would be a betrayal of their purpose of promoting the community to endorse either candidate.

If some of the bigger national organizations did this, maybe someone in the DNC will pay attention. I don't see how we can get any action on our issues if we don't stand up and demand action.

[Tyo]

4. It's not pessimism, it's realism

We are an embarrassment to the Dems, but we also tend to be politically active and they see us as a good source of foot soldiers and campaign contributions. It is only this that gets us any recognition at all from them, and mainly during elections. The rest of the time they devoutly wish that we'd go away. Seen in this light their actions over the past two decades have been entirely consistent.

There are a lot of great people here at DU and in our communities who stand with us and support us but unfortunately they are not representative of the party as a whole. The attitude of the Democratic leadership and I believe most Democratic voters is summed up by those here who tell us we are a liability, that we lose elections, and while it's unfortunate that we don't have the same rights as other Americans we need to suck it up for the good of the party.

Essentially we are told that every other issue facing the country is more important than ours and only when every other issue facing the country has been successfully addressed will there be time for us. If we're lucky. That's the reality. As to what do do about this reality other than kissing it good-bye at the border and getting on with our lives in a better place, I don't know.

[queerart]

6. You Hit The Nail On The Head......

You spelled it out very eloquently...... That the Democratic Party believes that Queers just need to shut the fuck up......


... and anyone who dares question that stance, or worse yet...... doesn't buy into that reeking bag of Bullshit is a "Militant Fag"....


I'm not sure that a system with just two political parties will ever work well...... in other countries where there are dozens of parties, people actually have to work together in considering the fairness to others while building a majority coalition to govern.


Surely it's time for a few more political parties in the United States..... unless of course that option was outlawed in the Patriot Act.....

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. Bingo

Well stated.

[tjwmason]

5. I'm with Tyo - but I also have a question.

As I understand the American set-up, Congress has far more independence than does the once-proud House of Commons. How do things look in terms of Congress?

[readmoreoften]

7. I'm all for finding a way to make sure we're not pushed out of the political process anymore.

I'd like to see an organized protest vote in 2012 so that we become as powerful a voting bloc as the anti-choice movement or the latino or jewish vote. Even with the open LGBT population at 4% (I doubt it's that low) we'd be tied with the number of Jewish and Latino voters. Add in our families and we're close to the number of African-American voters.

We'd also be hard to disenfranchise after we solidified as a bloc. We can't be pinned to any location to be dissuaded from voting (other than major urban areas in general.) Back to the old Silence=Death meme.

Political Visibility (might just) = Life.

[cboy4]

10. I'm not optimistic either. Nobody is going to want to rock

the proverbial boat.

Or it will be this or that is more important to tackle first.

And then when they get to us, it will be too close to the 2010 midterms and we can't risk losing seats over gay shit.

It never ends.

[NMMNG]

11. Not pessimistic

Realistic. I'm sick and tired of the same old Give us your money, your votes and your support but don't expect anything in return shtick every single election cycle. And don't even get me started on the garbage we get from our fellow Dems. :eyes:

I'm really ready to just :banghead:

[Tyo]

14. Our fellow Dems...

So many of them don't see us as a "real" minority. They see race and they see gender. They would never trivialize the injustices suffered by racial minorities now and in the past. They would never trivialize the aspirations of women for equal treatment in society and the workplace and the right of a woman to control what happens to her body. But sexual orientation just doesn't resonate with them.

The empathy for the gay kid for whom home or school is hell and who is terrified that his entire life might be more of the same just isn't there. The right of two women who love each other and have committed their lives to each other to enjoy the legal protections and obligations that marriage confers isn't a right worth fighting for. They can live together and own a house jointly. That should be enough. All you've got to do is remove the word "gay" from their condescending crap and insert "Black" or "Asian" or "Latino" or "Female" to show the unfairness and the absurdity of it all.

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. Gay is a choice, doncha know

That is really what it comes down to: We are gay "by choice." If we want to say otherwise, fine, but don't expect any "special rights." Just suck it up, vote for us, and we won't hound you to death like the Republicans will. We don't care what you do with each other, because we just don't care about YOU. Until and unless we can change that perception, nothing else can change.

For us, the choice between Democrat or Republican is the same choice between being shot in both legs and being left to bleed to death, or being shot in the head and the heart and being killed instantly.

[DarkTirade]

12. Yeah, I'm not seeing any big gains in the future.

I'm hoping to halt the backwards slide at least, but that's about all I'm expecting.

[Politicub]

13. Disagree with half of what you are saying

If Obama wins, I suspect we'll be invisible in his administration and won't be given a seat at the table. And, the McClurkin flap proved that Obama's campaign has a tin ear when it comes to GLBT issues.

However, I don't feel this way about Clinton at all. Perhaps a fourth of her volunteer staff in my conservative state of GA is GLBT. She has a long standing record on gay rights that is more progressive than her husband's.

Please do some research into both of these candidates, as I have, and the clear choice will emerge.

[xchrom]

15. i think either one will end DOMA or DADT.

for the sake of credibility.

while i am no supporter of clinton -- i do think she has a genuine affection for the lgbtq community.
she's a sophisticated woman and worldly woman.

obama -- will give us stuff -- but he has zip affection for us.

we are steps on a ladder for him.

my two cents.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. i think w. hrc we might see a removal of dadt and maybe enda

however marriage may not happen in my lifetime and i am 29

[eridani]

17. We get nothing from anybody without pushing

Caucus for Kucinich or Edwards and keep on pushing from below--that's how we got the New Deal.

[Iceburg]

18. Read Hillary's open letter to LBGT Americans at Our Chart ...

A Message to LGBT Americans: “I Want to be Your President”
That's the first time in history that a presidential candidate has uttered those words ...

http://www.ourchart.com/node/299303

By Senator Hillary Clinton

As I have traveled around the country these past twelve months, what I sensed in my heart has been confirmed – America is embracing its LGBT sons and daughters with an acceptance and understanding as never before. On the campaign trail, a father of a gay son will ask about ending Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. A woman will ask why she can be discriminated against just because of who she is. Sometimes they wait furtively for the crowd to thin and then whisper their confidences in a soft voice and sometimes they stand up proudly at town meetings and want me to share my views on how I will help lead the change to assure that this country fulfills its promise to everyone.

Let me tell you what I have been telling voters across America. I am fully committed to the fair and equal treatment of LGBT Americans. For seven long years, the Bush Administration has tried to divide us - only seeing people who matter to them. It's been a government of the few, by the few, and for the few. And no community has been more invisible to this administration than the LGBT community.

I will change that. The best evidence of what I will do as President is what I have already done.

I am proud of my record as First Lady, as a U.S. Senator and as a candidate for President in working toward the fair and equal treatment of LGBT Americans.

· I am proud that as Chair of the Senate Democratic Steering and Outreach Committee in 2006, I worked closely with LBGT community to develop a smart strategy that defeated the Federal Marriage Amendment. I am proud of fighting the FMA as divisive wedge politics at its worst.

· I am proud to be a co-sponsor of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, the Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, and the Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligation Act which would grant the same benefits (including health insurance) to domestic partners of federal employees that are currently offered to employees’ legal spouses.

· I am proud to have authored the Early Treatment for HIV Act, which expands access to vital treatment options for low-income individuals living with HIV, and fought to fully fund the Ryan White CARE Act.

· I am proud that I hired a National Director of LGBT Outreach within a month of announcing my candidacy for President and to have openly gay and lesbian staffers serving at all levels of my campaign.

....

America deserves a President who appeals to the best in each of us, not the worst; a President who values and respects all Americans and treats all Americans equally no matter who they are or who they love. I want to be that President. I want to be your President.

whole letter

[closeupready]

20. yeah, but meanwhile, her husband/co-candidate, signed the DOMA, DADT, in direct

contradiction of his promises to the GLBT community that he would support them.

How can we be sure that Hillary won't do the same thing?????

The rationalization offered by Bill's supporters is often, he read the tea leaves, and interpreted them to say that he had no choice. Well, what if Hillary comes to believe that throwing us under the bus is her only choice? Will she do that? I want to know, beyond her stated record, exactly WHAT IS SHE GOING TO DO FOR GLBT AMERICANS?????

[Tyo]

21. Who really knows?

But I'm inclined to take my chances with her.

For his part, Obama has already made it abundantly clear that he sees nothing wrong with soliciting and accepting the support of the homophobe fundie ex-gay contingent. I'm surprised that he hasn't yet given a speech at BJU and extended the olive branch to the David Duke crowd as well. And he wants my vote? Dream on, Barack.

[closeupready]

22. I can totally see your point, and respect your choice.

This election has not given voters any easy choices. :(

[NMMNG]

25. RE: the David Duke crowd

Obama himself would never extend an olive branch to them because he's made it abundantly clear that he detests racism and would never tolerate racists on his staff. Apparently, however, homophobes are a different story.



But your post reminded me of a quote I'd read from an AA homophobic minister who would extend an olive branch to the KKK:

AA pastor Gregory Daniels: "If the KKK opposes gay marriage, I would ride with them."



He then received a letter from an AA woman that posed an important question about why there are olive branches you just don't extend: "What do you think they gonna do to you after the ride?" (Thanks to Alvin McEwen of Holy Bullies and Headless Monsters for both quotes,)


I just don't grasp the concept of people who know what it's like to be hated and discriminated against, and then turn around and perpetrate that kind of harm upon others.

[Tyo]

27. Exactly

Discriminating against us, while rating pursed lips and a finger wag, is way not enough to exclude someone from the fold like discriminating against people on the basis of race would be. And that Obama has made this so very publicly clear to the extent that he has figuratively rubbed our faces in the fact with no repercussions makes me more angry than I can really express here.

[hulklogan]

24. We have to stop relying on the kindness of straight people

it's as simple as that. We must use every possible course of action to drive the militant straights towards our goals. Nothing should be off the table.

[NMMNG]

26. I'm beginning to feel that way

We may just need to stop asking for our rights and start demanding them.

Just the other night I, along with several thousand others, was chanting "Civil Rights or Civil War, Gay Rights Now!". We were acting for a movie set in the late 70's but maybe it needs to be brought into the present because very little has changed since then. :-(

[hulklogan]

28. Let's take that chant to the streets! n/t

[NMMNG]

29. Hear Hear!

Civil Rights or Civil War, Gay Rights Now!

[Tresalisa]

30. I don't blame you, or anyone else, for feeling pessimistic.

I am, too. It has taken years to get as far as we have gotten. As an over 50-year-old, I don't know if I'll see full equality in my lifetime.