Hilary Makes An Important Statement on Gay Rights

[ccharles000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnT8q5S4NFY&eurl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvuwovEAl9s

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Has She Denounced Scaife's Organization Which Wants Gays Executed?

Clinton carefully courted the endorsement of the monstrous billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife, who founded a group that wants to execute practicing homosexuals:

"Scaife also funded the Western Journalism Center, headed by Joseph Farah. Farah has been connected to reconstructionism, a movement to replace judicial law with Christian Old Testament law. The organization is antigay, and would move to punish "practicing homosexuals" by sentencing them to death."
- from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mellon_Scaife#Political_donations

I find this to be disturbing beyond words.

[Tyler Durden]

2. Has Obama denounced McClurkin, Caldwell,

and his adviser Meeks?

I'd say that makes the score 1-3, in a contest one doesn't want to win.

Really, if any given group of individuals finds it advantageous to reside in a many windowed edifice perhaps they should refrain from projecting brickbats?

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Do McClurkin, Caldwell, or Meeks Want To *Murder* Homosexuals?

Do you see a difference?

[Tyler Durden]

4. No, they want them to fry in Hell for eternity.

Then again, I'm an atheist.

Hey, I'm straight. Pick a guy who thinks you deserve "...a package of basic rights..." that won't offend the bigots if you want. It's a free country.

Well, sort of.


Oh yes, and Scaife isn't a Clinton Adviser. Meeks was an Obama Adviser, and likely still is.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. That's A Reasonable Point, If He's An Adviser

Can you point to evidence that Meeks is an Obama adviser?

I think that actively calling for execution of a group is far, far different than believing they are wrong and will go to Hell.

[MannyGoldstein]

18. (Cue sound of crickets chirping?)

[Tyler Durden]

21. Rude.

Some of us are at work, friend.

[Tyler Durden]

19. ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Kz-_IaFyU

A GAY newspaper:
http://www.chicagopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/5603104

and no, I don't like quoting worldnetdaily
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=59735


I didn't cite any FOX stuff, but if nobody by FAUX is going to talk about this, where do you go? Direct quotes are not fabrication, and MSM is not carrying any non-Pro-Obama stuff.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Sorry, Not Seeing It

As far as I can tell, Obama went to a Meeks' prayer meeting, and Meeks supports Obama - and that's it. I don't see where Obama carefully courted Meeks, nor do I see where Meeks is supporting the execution of homosexuals.

As to the MSM "not carrying any non-Pro-Obama stuff." - I seem to recall Rev. Wright yammering "God Damn America" 24/7 for a week or two on every news outlet.

[Tyler Durden]

48. As with most strong Obama Supporters, that is your underlying agenda.

This started out about GLBT rights and a candidate's statement, then you started with the "When did you stop beating your wife?" stuff.

In those cites are direct quotes from the candidate talking about getting spiritual advice from a strong anti-gay/cure the homosexual preacher, and his adviser status is also quoted. Those are facts.

As to Wright, I didn't bring him into this. You did.

[dropkickpa]

31. Okay

http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/726619,obamafalsani040504.article

Another person Obama says he seeks out for spiritual counsel is state Sen. James Meeks, who is also the pastor of Chicago's Salem Baptist Church. The day after Obama won the primary in March, he stopped by Salem for Wednesday-night Bible study.

"I know that he's a person of prayer," Meeks says. "The night after the election, he was the hottest thing going from Galesburg to Rockford. He did all the TV shows, and all the morning news, but his last stop at night was for church. He came by to say thank you, and he came by for prayer."

Maybe this is where he gets his whole "My faith" says gay marriage ain't right thing. I'm so glad he takes Meeks advice on this sort of thing.

[LostinVA]

30. The ex-gay movement kills people

As far as I'm concerned there's no difference at all. In fact, they're worse, because they are actively destroying lives.

[Toasterlad]

34. Definitely MUCH Worse.

The crazy assholes shrieking "All homos must die!" appeal only to the very fringe lunatics in the world, but the insidious assholes who preach that homosexuality can be "cured" are torturing hundreds of confused young people who grew up in a society that is telling them that they're "unnatural". These weasels prey on insecurity and feed self-loathing until a poor kid either offs him/herself or completely sublimates his/her identity and becomes a future Larry Craig. Give me a bat-shit crazy Fred Phelps any day over these monstrous gay-conversion fuckwads.

[LostinVA]

40. My wife was subjected to an ex-gay psychiatrist when she was a teenager for awhile

It's a horror story. The most disturbing part is, he wasn't a minister, but a licensed psychiatrist.

[tjwmason]

49. I didn't know that - poor her.

A British journalist went to one of these and filmed his experience - he had a fairly cynical view of the whole thing and didn't get in too deep, but it was clear that some of those around (his fellow "patients") were getting seriously screwed up in the head by what was going on.

:hug: for both of you.

[mondo joe]

38. You're proving how little you know or care. The homophobics Obama courts and

stands with DO kill gays. Look at the rate of suicide among gay teens.

[kdpeters]

7. With the [Clinton] PARTISANS it's ALWAYS an exercise in compare and contrast.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=67627&mesg_id=67674

(S)he needs to respond to these things as h(er) own (wo)man rather than hiding behind the record of h(er) opponent.

That would have been good advice if you'd actually meant it. There's no point in listening to advice from Hillary partisans. It's always an exercise in "do as I say, not as I do" double standards with you guys.

Prove me wrong. Respond to this criticism of Clinton without trying to make it all about Obama and give her a pass on it.

[Tyler Durden]

9. How about this?

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=27778

Seems like Clinton is raising the bar on support for Gay Rights.

Why are you picking from another thread? This one is in response to the Hillary supports genocide innuendo up the thread. First shot fired by an Obama Partisan on this thread. Stay on subject.

[kdpeters]

29. Because your messages are inconsistent and contradictory

This one is in response to the Hillary supports genocide innuendo up the thread. First shot fired by an Obama Partisan on this thread.

But it was YOU who changed the subject to Obama in response to criticism of Hillary rather than respond to the substance of the charge. That directly contradicts your own accusations that it is Obama partisans who do this. I only picked on you because I'd just barely seconds before seen your accusation in the very previous thread I'd read. It stood out to me. It's not personal and it's not meant as an attack, but as a challenge.

[Tyler Durden]

45. No, it's a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question.

For months the Clinton Supporters have heard over and over how "...Obama isn't responsible for who supports him..."

So the question of Scaife is a smokescreen.

[WillParkinson]

60. Wow...

I don't give either candidate a pass on anything. I don't like either. If it's the truth then point it out, but don't assume that people are "Hillary Partisans" because they do not like or trust Mr. Obama to do the right thing, either.

[Prism]

10. Scaife, Mayberry, Long vs Meeks, McClurkin, and Caldwell make it 3-3

If we're keeping accurate score instead of "Bigots I'm ignoring for the sake of my candidate"

Although I'm not sure why we are.

[Tyler Durden]

13. Let's see....

Mayberry and Long were incidental, Scaife I'll give you.

Meeks WAS and likely is an adviser.
McClurkin, well, that's obvious.
Caldwell is campaigning for him in Texas. None of the Clinton 3 are doing that.

Do we really have to play this game? You're for Obama, and nobody's being converted to the "true faith" today.

[Prism]

22. I see, it's all conditional.

Sorry, I'm for equality and condemning bigots no matter which candidate they're associated with. I don't apologize for or minimize homophobia. If supporting Clinton means minimizing bigotry, count me out.

[Tyler Durden]

24. And supporting Obama also means minimizing bigotry.

I really don't see that much difference, and the minor plus in the Clinton column.

I don't see Obama as some raging supporter of equal rights. If you can SHOW ME, then you take the prize.

[Prism]

27. When someone ignores bigotry . . .

. . . in service to a partisan cause, they minimize the GLBT struggle for equality. By downplaying Clinton's homophobic associations and only highlighting those politically suitable at the moment, dignity, acceptance, and equality take a backseat to power, cynicism, and the diminishing of integrity.

I'm for GLBT rights first, Clinton or Obama second.

Which is why I've never had to ignore bigots in order to make my points.

[Tyler Durden]

46. I downplayed nothing.

I got a grenade tossed in my lap regarding Scaife, an "OH YEAH? OH YEAH?"

I'm for everyone's Equal Rights, and you've been an Obama apologist on every thread where you saw my name for a while, so don't talk "I'm for GLBT rights first, Clinton or Obama second."

Try this little jewel, and please note that they are the only two paragraphs in a large piece that say anything about this:

http://www.thetartan.org/2008/4/7/news/obama

(snip)
While the crowd was indeed diverse, some students at the event questioned the practices of Mrs. Obama’s event coordinators, who handpicked the crowd sitting behind Mrs. Obama. The Tartan’s correspondents observed one event coordinator say to another, “Get me more white people, we need more white people.” To an Asian girl sitting in the back row, one coordinator said, “We’re moving you, sorry. It’s going to look so pretty, though.”

“I didn’t know they would say, ‘We need a white person here,’ ” said attendee and senior psychology major Shayna Watson, who sat in the crowd behind Mrs. Obama. “I understood they would want a show of diversity, but to pick up people and to reseat them, I didn’t know it would be so outright.”
(snip)

Actually the point is that neither one of our candidates seems to really have a good agenda for Equal Rights, but ONE of them smells like a fundamentalist Christian to me, and by the way, stopped by to attend Meeks' Bible Study Group after the March Primary.

You may trust this guy, I don't. That's ok, it's sort of a free country.

[mondo joe]

39. You're playing FOX news games with your tally.

Reasoning people can consider the scope and depth of the situation - we don't need FOX news style sports analogies to dumb things down.

[Prism]

41. The Washington Blade = Fox?

When did that start happening?

Advocate isn't that important. Gay newspapers are like Fox.

Quite a toll the Clinton campaign is taking . . .

http://washblade.com/2007/11-2/news/national/11496.cfm

[mondo joe]

42. Did you even read what I wrote? Apparently not.

Words can't break through the Obama indoctrination.

[Fearless]

5. Does she support full marriage yet?

How about repealing fully DADT and DOMA? Passing an inclusive ERA?

No?

Then I don't hold my breath.

[Tyler Durden]

8. Does he?

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=27778

She's getting closer than he is. Why do you trust this guy so much? He's gone from "Single Payer Healthcare" support to "Insurance Company Welfare," and a dozen other flips.

[Fearless]

11. What guy?

I assume you mean Obama? I didn't say anything about Obama. I was merely stating a fact. I won't hold my breath about GLBTQ rights until SOMEONE comes through on the end of DADT and DOMA and an inclusive ERA. That's all.

[Tyler Durden]

12. Hokay.

[Fearless]

14. Ok indeed

[Fearless]

15. Why didn't this come out while she was WINNING?

Hmmm... Sounds like she ignores us when she can. Hmmm...

[Tyler Durden]

16. Happened last week.

Better than ignoring you completely unless confronted.

You know, I don't LOVE either of them. Personally, I see this election as a shit sandwich, or a shit sandwich with a lot of horseradish.

One is just a little harder to taste the shit.

What I DON'T understand is the religious fervor for BO. If he's a C, then Clinton is no more than a C+ at best.

[Fearless]

44. Some people

look at him and see a candidate who comes from a different perspective than any in history. He is not a WASP. Many people get simply excited over that. Other people believe that his message of hope is more acceptable than the politics of fear which have dictated this nation's policy lo these past 8 years. Still others see him as charismatic and youthful. Others like his views on the issues. Others like his seemingly strong ability to pull red and blue states together. Still others just simply don't like Clinton. Others just simply like him because they see him as most electable (because Clinton would energize the Rethug base).

I don't know why any one person is going to vote for Barack Obama other than myself. It's not because of GLBTQ issues, as I've said in this forum many times before, to luke warm reply and flame alike. I am voting for him because he is willing to talk to leaders of nations that we "don't like". That's my reason. I believe that the cold shoulder technique doesn't work and that Clinton's insistence of ignoring leaders of other countries (say Iran or North Korea) leaves us open to attack.

That's just my opinion and that's just why I'm personally voting for him. We each have different views and to each their own. That's what makes democracy strong. We must always agree that we have the right to disagree.

NTF

[closeupready]

52. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID when it was posted recently that

she had a gay man babysit Chelsea and other gay-friendly factoids related to Hillary Clinton.

What a horribly run campaign she's been running.

[Tyler Durden]

55. That piece came out last week.

That's when it happened.

Just like Obama stopped by Meeks' "Bible Study Group" right after the March Primary.

I don't trust EITHER of them, but I trust him LESS. Let's just say I don't think ANYONE who tells me outright his "faith" won't let him support a part of the Constitution has no business running in the first place.

[closeupready]

56. I don't entirely disagree with you on not trusting either one, but

we have a choice between essentially two people, Hillary and Obama, and Hillary triangulates, whereas Obama seems less willing to do that, for example, Rev. Wright. Triangulation, on the other hand, brought us DADT and the DOMA. With Bill as her closest adviser, we can reasonably expect more such travesties. I don't want any more betrayals like that.

Obama may end up being more of the same, or even worse, but I haven't been convinced so far that this will be the case.

[Tyler Durden]

61. Were DADT and DOMA wrong? Yes.

Did they stall and permanently table much more draconian measures, sure to pass the Republican dominated congresses of the time. Yes also.

Now we have measures that can be legislated away as opposed to being repealed as constitutional amendments. When one thinks about this it should be remembered that we couldn't even get the ERA ratified as it was considered leftist and radical.

Will Clinton sign a repealed DOMA and DADT? Likely. Will Obama? Well, that begs the question of who he's listening to, and his silence in the GLBT press for the last 6 months speaks some very loud volumes.

I don't trust either of them, but for different reasons. Clinton I view as politically expedient, but Obama looks like a "closet fundamentalist." Call it my atheistic cynicism, but any candidate who has as one of his "must attends" after a primary a Bible Study Group with a rabid Fundy and Bigot...well, you know my opinion.

[closeupready]

62. My problem is that Bill did not HAVE to sign the DOMA, but he did so anyway.

And I'm sorry, but he promised us during his campaign that he was going to integrate the military, not do the opposite. He betrayed us on that. No excuses for that.

I understand your point of view, but I can not say that I share it.

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. Her actions speak much louder and clearer than any words

Anything a candidate says during election season is a desperate attempt to curry votes. I look at her actions before she was desperate, and I do not like what I see.

[Tyler Durden]

20. Why do you see that much difference?

I'd flush them BOTH in a NY Minute for Gore.

[TechBear_Seattle]

26. I never said there was a difference; I was sticking to the topic

I believe the actions of both Democratic candidates have made their positions quite clear, regardless of any last minute realization that they shouldn't have thrown us under the bus.

[mitchtv]

23. everyone here is unfortunately right

It's time to look at other issues that they might be different about. Cause on Gay issues they are both lieing scumbags and I don't believe either one. I do however fear St Obams's love of the nuclear industry and fear he will be more likely than Clinton to ok more of those types power plants. I also fear is pronouncement that "everything is on the table including raising the age limits for Social Security. As the campaign progressed , he has a disturbing habit of dropping unpopular statements into the memory hole. Oh well, as a Dem , I am quite used to holding my nose.

[Tyler Durden]

25. I fear you're right on this one, as so many others.

I have seen Clinton hold to undesirable points, while I have seen Obama move to them and then beyond.

As I've said before, I'd shitcan BOTH of them for Al Gore.

Oh well. In some better universe maybe. The Nuke position of Obama scares the shit out of me, too. I dropped out of Nuclear Engineering at the University of Michigan in 1973. Maybe I'll make it to Social Security before he flips on that one too. He'd have to get re-elected.

[kdpeters]

32. Thank you very much for acknowledging fellow GLBTs distrust of either candidate

More important to me than being united as Democrats is being united as GLBTs and allies. A lot of gayfolks have come to decide on the other candidate with no less legitimate logic and facts. It means everything that you would respect your fellow GLBTs viewpoints over a temporary partisan disagreement. First, we are allies on the issues. We hurt ourselves when we filter each other through the lens of which candidate one another supports at this moment in history. Speaking for myself as a gay man who at this point has chosen Obama, I really take offense when other GLBTs here take up the banner of speaking for the gay community to only make sweeping broad brush accusations of Obama supporters and dismiss fellow GLBTs who have just as valid reasons to distrust Clinton.

I find the issues you raise of concern and importance that can't be ignored or dismissed -- or ever forgotten even if Obama should be the next president. To be honest with you, I probably wouldn't have listened if you hadn't given a nod to Clinton's lack of a pro-equality stance to get excited about. I'm sure I'm far from the only person who has long since stopped listening to double-standard outrage at Obama. It's quite obvious when some fail to praise Kucinich for being the only candidate supporting marriage equality, but instead savage only Obama out of all the rest who take the same stance opposing marriage equality.

I don't believe in making candidates into heroes and I don't believe in placing any amount of trust in elected officials. I trust myself and my fellow citizens. I trust the power of the US presidency to be a corrupting influence like no other on even the best of all candidates. I believe in our civic duty to hold all accountable. The issues you raise about Obama should transcend support for his candidacy. It does to me.

[Toasterlad]

35. THANK You.

I've been saying that for weeks. Let's please leave gay issues out of the debate between these two candidates, neither of whom gives a rat's ass about us.

[xchrom]

33. accompanying mcclurkin -- were THREE other anti-gay gospell acts.

one of whom compares lgbtiq folk to murderers.

obama knowingly USED african american actively hostile religious folk -- one abusive -- to introduce himself to voters in SC.

it was the smile and hidden baseball bat all in one move.

it goes beyond cynical and contains a message -- a threatening one.

like it or not -- that's it -- and DU would rip t pieces any republican candidate for the same tactic -- rip. them. to. pieces.

but no -- this is Barack -- the Anointed One and his followers -- set ablaze with this hope and change crap.

few things have been more repugnant to me.

add that up with meeks and caldwell his inability to even give interviews to gay media -- or have his picture taken a with a 'controversial' straight mayor.

[kdpeters]

36. Do you consider yourself a Hillbot?

If not, why do you hate Barack more than you respect GLBT folks who don't think like you? Seems to me you should stop playing the gay card when you don't even respect the diversity of opinion among your fellow GLBT community members. And stop crying homophobia when your opinions are shown the same respect you show to others -- none. If you're going to be a jackass, it doesn't matter that you're gay. It's the jackass part that counts.

[xchrom]

37. that was a long winded way of telling me to shut-up and not

express an opinion offensive to you.

i'll do that -- as soon as you start paying my tax bills.

[kdpeters]

43. Don't even try playing the victim card.

You start out being a jackass, you can't cry "oppression!" when you're treated like a jackass. I certainly don't object to your honest opinion, but you can't expect me to accept your insults. Try again without the sarcasm and the mockery of differing views and I'll show you respect for your opinions in return. Go ahead. Try me. It's a win/win for you. Either I show you respect or I make myself a fool and a liar if I don't.

[Tyler Durden]

47. Are you an Obamanoid?

Do you like the way that sounds? Then why use "Hillbot?"

Jackass is as Jackass does. Why not try polite? I purposely use "Obama Supporter" whenever possible. It seems to lower my blood pressure a little.

The Repukes made a big deal in the past of screaming "COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE." Name calling makes good negative cheerleading. Lots of mockery and insults were shown here: I'd say one side outnumbered the other by a margin, but that's as far as I'll go.

[kdpeters]

53. I don't consider myself one, no.

Then why use "Hillbot?"

To challenge a particular person with his own style of provocation to see how he would react to his own behavior. I don't use that as a term for Clinton supporters in general. Swear to god, I've been trying to reach over that divide. The polite route proved a dead end, so that was just an attempt at the push back route.

[Tyler Durden]

54. I've found that push always leads to shove.

I think if you look at a lot of my stuff, you'll see it takes a ton of push to get me to shove. That's not to blow my own horn: I've been working on a "China Syndrome" level temper for the past 45 years, so I have to read what I post a couple of times and edit.

We either cross the divide, friend, or we get fucked. I wish I was as sure as most here that if and/or once Obama gets into office, he won't throw ALL of us under the bus. I have no evidence for this other than what I read but I smell a fundy, and I don't like it. I'm an atheist, and anyone who wants to be elected and tells me his "faith" won't let him do something, well, my reaction is then, don't run.

[kdpeters]

57. I do hear you. I don't intend to carry it any further

Not this instance, but I would rather be able to converse with other GLBT folks despite candidate preference. I've been on internet/BBS discussion boards almost twenty years. I've seen flame wars last for years and morph into something resembling its own being encompassing everything said and everyone who'd ever commented influencing every response that you can't even try to figure it out or make sense of it. I think that's what has happened re: the Obama/Hillary/GLBT flame narrative and why I couldn't get anywhere because so much has happened that I didn't see or do or know about. You can't even begin to try to figure out ongoing flamewars and it quickly gets really silly when you try. But you can level set with people at a mutual clean slate on each others' terms free from the flame war -- if you can get their attention.

Not trying to flatter you, but this type of dialog is what I hoping to stumble on.

We either cross the divide, friend, or we get fucked. I wish I was as sure as most here that if and/or once Obama gets into office, he won't throw ALL of us under the bus. I have no evidence for this other than what I read but I smell a fundy, and I don't like it. I'm an atheist, and anyone who wants to be elected and tells me his "faith" won't let him do something, well, my reaction is then, don't run.

I see where you're coming from and it helps make sense of what I'd always dismissed as flame hyperbole. Sometimes I get an icky feeling from the overt religiousity, too. I get it. Maybe it is you who is right, and I've totally misread his underlying intentions. What little I know about you already leads me to trust your intentions. I'm not going to try to change your mind or put your suspicion at ease because it's a healthy suspicion based on solid principle of church/state separation. I'm all in favor of suspicion over trust when it comes to elected officials. It's just good policy and civic duty.

About me, it's all been about Iraq more than anything since 2002 and the short version is that Hillary is the single worst Democrat on this issue. I was always anyone-but-Clinton, but only ended up with Obama when he became the only one who wasn't her. I warmed up to him eventually and feel quite satisfied that overall it's the right choice and not just on Iraq. As important as marriage is, it hardly registers for me. We're not going to die by the thousands and be displaced by the millions, but our country did this to others. We're going to hell for what we did to Iraq and we're all responsible for what was done in our name. That's why I don't like her, and it's a compelling reason for me. I don't hate her, but I really would like to see her Iraq record cost her the presidency. That would be enough. I'd warm up to her if it turns out I have to, but I'll probably be more cynical than ever. Maybe you can identify with that feeling conversely.

[Tyler Durden]

58. I don't trust any politicians anymore.

Levin, maybe. Gore I don't classify as a politician anymore.

I find them all to be double dealing, prevaricating, self-serving.

The only thing I've ever truly agreed with that Christopher Hitchens has said was concerning politicians:

"You should treat politicians exactly the same way they treat you: with contempt."

In this election cycle, I have seen very few candidates I would trust farther than I could hit them with a rock, and I've got lousy aim. You're right: Clinton voted for the war, but so did many others, and my opinion is that each of us votes for the war every time we pay a single penny of taxes. Can we avoid it without jail? Not likely. I believe that support for this shitty war carries the same responsibility as if we were Germans during WWII; we might not be Nazis, but we are letting the Nazis do their dirty work through our inaction. There is no such thing as being "a little pregnant." That's why what Clinton did and many other Democrats did is not such a stink in my nostrils, as part of the stink I smell is myself and each one of us.

That being said, I have retreated to my final redout of support: Equal Treatment Under the Law.

[xchrom]

50. what the fuck are you talking about? -- you didn't like what i said

and told me to shut up -- in a long winded condescending way.

let's review shall we? -- first there is the opening salvo: Do you consider yourself a Hillbot? right away an attack.
a stupid one.

next: If not, why do you hate Barack more than you respect GLBT folks who don't think like you? -- that's a personal opinion -- yours -- there are others who feel the same as i do, but chose to attack me. we're not cousins, buddy i don't give a fuck about you, why would i?
you have never demonstrated anything like what i think of as internet friendship with me as others have.


then there's this winner: Seems to me you should stop playing the gay card when you don't even respect the diversity of opinion among your fellow GLBT community members. -- where's the respect for my opinion, huh? barack can use 4 total anti-gay gospell groups to get votes -- but i don't show respect? -- that's fuckin creepy.

oh and the icing on the {self loathing?} cake: And stop crying homophobia when your opinions are shown the same respect you show to others -- none. -- well first off that sentence makes no sense -- but apparently if i don't shut-up about your Anointed One because some how it doesn't sit well with obamanation -- and it hurts their feelings and -- well it's just a fucked sentence telling me to shut up.

and now for the charm offensive: If you're going to be a jackass, it doesn't matter that you're gay. It's the jackass part that counts. --
after haveing projected jackass all over the place here -- you decide you don't like your image and try to paste it on me.

sweet.

:*

[kdpeters]

51. Here's the specific passage that set me off -- as you must have wanted it to

the Anointed One and his followers -- set ablaze with this hope and change crap.

You must have wanted either a reaction or were hoping to mock and insult a wide swath of folks here without being challenged. Either way, you were being a jackass and I called you on it because I don't do broad brush generalized insults. There are Hillary supporters who aren't jackasses that I don't want to disrespect because they happen to support your candidate. But just be upfront here. Read that statement again. You know it was jackassy, so how can you complain when you get it in return. Drop it and meet me halfway. That's my challenge. Like I said, it's a no-lose situation to take me up on my offer. I show you respect for your duly offered opinions or I lose face. On the other hand, it's a no-lose situation for me to make the offer. Either you accept, and we might see how a respectful conversation between two people supporting different candidates might work, or you reject and illustrate the emptiness in your charges you try to pin on Obama folks.

[xchrom]

59. first -- you and your binary view is very problematic --

i have not claimed to be a hillary supporter -- and yes -- i find many of obamanation to be
a little on the obsessive side when it comes to the Anointed One -- i'm sorry if that offends you -- but maybe it's because the high heel fits.

ever think about that?

but here's the real deal-- if you're an obama supporter -- with some exceptions, people who i would defend bitterly no matter what -- i reall don't give a shit what you think of me.

because supporting obama is -- as far as i'm concerned supporting a homophobe -- and a homophobe who hired, used a total of four threatening acts to introduce himself to south carolina.

so can you see -- if that's the sand box you play in -- i think poorly of you as a human being.