A thought..

[undergroundpanther]

What is it about blurring the animal human demarcation lines that were invented by western Abrahamic faiths ..upsets some people here,so that they are rude, mean and demeaning to me??

Do you know that's where that reactive rigidity and hostility regarding your nasty comments about my identity as a feline has it's origins? That sickening same Abrahamic bullshit that condemns gay people as"abominations" and trans-genders and tells humans they have dominion over this planet ,and we are to rule the animals and use them..as if they were our possessions to exploit..A pervasive pattern of exploitation and domination that sickens every being it touches..

What you are never ends. What you have; does.

The ancient Egyptians had no problem seeing lion heads on their gods,even Pharaoh wore a lion's tail on the back of his Schenti,and wore lion ears sometimes there are carvings of the Pharaoh as sphinx.Modern Hindus don't make such silly distinctions either..It is ancient,the anthropomorphic animal person type of identity.
It is the recent Abrahamic belief structures so ingrained in people as kids,pushed into every psyche by this sick culture .Abrahamic belief systems are the ones that has the hostile bigot issues with gays, trans-gender people, animal headed gods, and furries.
Think about it.What's the big deal to all of you if I Identify MYSELF as feline,And relate that to MY trans-gender issue as an IDENTITY issue like my furriness,And I think it IS a GBLT issue,for GBLT furs even though some of you disagree... Tell me how does that make YOU less human, or less GBLT than you already identify yourselves as??

IT DOESN'T!!!

For those who are so hostile to me,try thinking of what I am trying to say in another way.. Notice how anyone different than the cultural "norms" in this country and anyone different who basically lives true to who they are, gets attacked for it.We all are fighting against the same bad way of thinking that our culture encourages ..we seek liberation from it ,all GBLT people and animal people,trans-people,counter-cultured people,we all are seeking the same thing, to be who we are and to be liberated from the socially sanctioned abuse and bigotry inspired by Abrahamic beliefs codified into this culture as'norms'to be obeyed or else...And to truly defeat the bigotry that has been woven in the very fabric of this culture solidarity is needed as well as a expandable identity definition.Circumstances change and the GBLT movement is going to have to change too, it can exclude and shrivel or expand and embrace more more honestly and grow stronger for more kinds of queer identified people who are fighting the same cultural bigotries than some of you even realize.

Being an animal person is not a new idea..either, it is as ancient as being gay,trans-gender is.It's as old as our origins.

FORGOTTEN LANGUAGE
Once I spoke the language of the flowers.
Once I understood each word the caterpillar said.
Once I smiled in secret at the gossip of the starlings and shared a conversation with the housefly in my bed.
Once I heard and answered all the questions of the crickets and joined the crying of each falling dying flake of snow.
Once I spoke the language of the flowers...
How did it go?
How did it go?

Try not to die like an animal, but like a god.


"I AM WILDCAT. I COME UP FROM BELOW.
I COME DOWN FROM ABOVE."
"I am darkness and light, the shadow hunter and king of the sun
. My claws hold the earth, my tongue tastes the sky. I am steadfast
and strong, compassionate and caring. I am tiger, and my words
are pure."

I am What I cherish most.So,I am feline.
And being trans-furred does not mean I am someone beneath you to be mocked..

[Syrinx]

1. what?

I don't understand. You are a cat? I don't get it. :shrug:

[undergroundpanther]

2. I am trying to say..

GBLT people are not the only people in this world right now facing the same culturally sanctioned bigotry aimed at destroying them. The bigotry I am speaking of has it's origins in the Abrahamic type belief systems,An ideology that get pushed in this culture that forms the rationales for it's warped 'norms'.We have many allies in different/other/Queer Identified people,(Queer identity is more about transcending boundaries culturally imposed than strictly just ones gayness)There are many queer allies out there that have non-sexual aspects of queer identity that identify as something other,who are threatened in various degrees who get overlooked by the rush by some to rigidly define limits and become exclusive...

[Syrinx]

3. what the heck is trans-furred?

What does that mean?

[Skittles]

4. obviously

it is a trans-gender cat. GET WITH THE PROGRAM SYRINX!!!

[Syrinx]

5. Sorry Skittles!

I'm really sorry! Really! Really!

:hi:

[undergroundpanther]

7. It's ok Syrinx.

Sigh. Just trying to get some understanding in here.

[undergroundpanther]

6. Ok

Transgendered,and furry,at the same time.The furry side has a broad definition from fans of anthromorphic art to people like me who are a feline inside,another form of boudary transcenduing identity, another flavor(I think) of queerness.I am doing body mod to make my outsides mesh with who I am better,in the transgender sense and in the feline sense,

More here..
http://sfreporter.com/articles/publish/cover-101007-fluff-piece.php

[Syrinx]

8. how do you relate to furriness in a political sense?

No judgment here. I'm seriously interested in your political furriness. Seriously.

[undergroundpanther]

9. Well

When I am out doing things people ask questions,like why do I wear a tail,as I tell them why they begin to realize trans-people,body mod people who look like animals are not weird or dangerous.I have made alot of friends this way with all sorts of people,some of the encounters with kids are memorable.Like the kid who yanked on my tail while I was looking for ripe mango's at the supermarket,His mom started to tell him to not yank on my tail, bu I told her it was ok,this kid asked me what Kind of tiger I was. I told him I am Panther..after goofing around with me,a few minutes,and after I introduced myself to his mom,shook hands and all, he told his mom he wanted to be a tiger when he grew up,and every time we passed each other in the isles he'd growl at me and I'd growl back at him and his mom enjoyed all this too,we ended up next to each other in checkout line .We exchanged numbers and we sometimes get coffee..I made her son a tail and ears for his birthday.It's what he asked for, a blue tiger tail.

I also am an advocate for mental health rights for survivors been doing this for years. When I go to conferences I am not at all inhibited about hiding my feline self, it has made people curious and I answer them.Over time in my area, where I live the mental health clinics,doctors programs and whatnot are more educated and aware what a trans-person is,what fur identity is about ,and the body mod/goth/alternative culture, is about VS a delusion,fetish or a cult.
They consider identity can be many things,than what is expected and so they've become more sensitized to that fact.

Furs are a bit more respected and understood around here because of the "P.R" I have done, my furry friends and allies have done, and our willingness to be out there. My desire to not hide my feline side and refusing to assume people are assholes until they ARE an asshole to me first...At A GBLT psych survivor group one of three or so in this country ,I was on the board of directors there for around two years,I had to quit going because I have no way to get out there reliably from where I live now. But if I got transport they want me back,.I was called panther than and I am known as such now. I did 'education 'panel discussions at colleges and state meetings and other places,many times. I told college kids studying psych and sociology about my experiences being trans-gender and about having a non human perception of self.There were always lots of questions after we did the panel thing,people always wanted to touch the tail or try on my ears,touch my tattoos,and I made a lot of allies in so many unexpected places doing this stuff. For me being feline and not denying who I am and bringing my inner out has really made my life better and it's easier for me to cope with other people unapologetically being my queer feline self out and proud about it all too.

I hope that answered your question.

[Syrinx]

10. thanks for answering my questions!

You're okay with me. :hi:

[Toasterlad]

20. So...You Were Spayed?

[Zuiderelle]

23. And African Americans and Jews experience bigotry. It doesn't make us all the same group of people.

Why on earth did you start another thread about this?

[DarkTirade]

11. First off... don't attack people who are gonna be your allies.

In the last thread you were acting like everyone was against you. They weren't.

Second... as you saw in the upthread, some people just don't even know what you're talking about. Seomtimes simply stopping and explaining will work just fine. You have to realize that you're part of a very small minority, and yes, some people are only going to hear about the fringe stuff and think it's weird. But most people won't even hear about it at all.

Third... seriously. Stop getting pissed off at people who haven't done anything to you. Everyone here understands what it's like to have an identity that is outside the 'norm'. Your defensiveness is pushing people away.

[Moloch]

12. Its a shame that people here are judging and attacking you..

while at the same time insisting that transvestites are entitled to every gain of the GLB movement.

[ccharles000]

13. Don't you mean GLBT.

[mitchtv]

15. if I ever used "ignore" it would be for that post

a real little crusader. PAY HER NO MIND

[mitchtv]

14. Bwahahahahaha

you have no idea who you are talking to. Try thinking; oh that Obama avatar explains it, instead of think you hope

[terrya]

17. Um, the "T" in GLBT stands for transgendered.

A dictionary can be your friend. Transvestites and transgendered people are not the same thing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. that person uses the word to degrade. no dictionary or link can help that

[terrya]

21. Oh...so that person is basically a 'phobe.

Got it. Thanks.

[LostinVA]

25. Yeah -- this poster is horribly transphobic

Honestly, they seem to ONLY post transphobic stuff.

[Zuiderelle]

22. Oh fuck. Enough already with the transphobia.

How are you still here?

[Moloch]

26. I've been here for years...

and nothing I've ever posted has been bigoted or defamatory toward transvestites. You do not have a monopoly on Democratic thought nor the thoughts of the GLB community. Obviously, I've offended a lot of people with my posts on the subject but I don't regret a single one because a lot of people in the GLB community feel the same way I do but are fearful of violence for speaking out.

[JackBeck]

27. Unfortunately, you are beyond obtuse

And completely delusional when it comes to this subject.

You've batted away any attempts at education on the transgendered.

Many posters have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt too many times. But eventually, there is nothing that can save you from your ignorance on this board. You're either an ignorant and bigoted gay that doesn't understand trans issues, or a clueless hetero that feels the need to parade around their trans ignorance.

Which is it?

[Zuiderelle]

29. You offend transgendered people every time you call them transvestites.

And you know it.

Fearful of violence if you exhibit your bigotry? Right. From whom?

[readmoreoften]

28. There is no GLB community. Give me one link to an organization that intentionally excludes the T.

That's not to say that there aren't a few gay folks as ignorant as you. You don't want trans participation? No Stonewall for you.

Now get the fuck out of the GLBT forum with your anti-trans bullshit cuz this forum doesn't say GLB up top, now does it? That means your ass doesn't belong.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. your concept of whom you are is significantly different from anyone elses

which is not to say people should be hostile to you, but you need to be patient too

i live in nyc, have a LARGE group of GLBT friends and yet you are the ONLY one i know who is animal identified

i dont really care how you identify but your posts of late have been defensive and hostile. it doesnt really make one want to empathize with you.

[undergroundpanther]

33. And being called crazy

And you know being called crazy stupid,and being ridiculed by people who should know better, for bringing up a topic really hasn't made me desire to be all that pleasant back to you all.For give me for having emotions and not just smiling under all those abusinve demeaning verbal assaults other people said on those threads.

If you care to notice I didn't start my threads here by saying cruel and nasty things to anyone else,I did not de-legitimize anyone's identity or sexuality or seek to exclude them, but that's the first thing I ran into here. Yet some here still think that's perfectly fine to do that shit to me.And you ask why I feel hostile? I did not bring this topic up saying you all were pointless or stupid. No,I was insulted first.

Secondly I am trying to get you all to understand Queer identity and the politics surrounding it goes far deeper than many of the more insulting and demeaning posters want to understand.. Identity is important,Freedom of identity is a core principle GBLT and other liberation movements share in common..Deep down it's what we all want to be who we are and not be insulted, demeaned or scapegoated for it.

But you rather support those who laugh at my expense,and call me crazy and say what I can or cannot be, than on top of that, you, LIONESS priyanka sit here and chastise me for being defensive and hostile when I was treated like shit by some pretty ignorant people here first, who as it appears still are acting like the bigots we all get disgusted by..I guess it isn't bigotry if gays do it to furs is it?

Why you would blame me for this hostile crap for bringing up issues of identity,queerness and how it could relate to furs? A valid topic of discussion that happened to rankle bigots in the gay community? And it's all my fault these bigots show their ass here? I think not, Lioness.

[Zuiderelle]

34. You are accepted as part of GLBT because of you are transgendered, but you ask that your furry

identity also be accepted on equal footing, and that's where the issue is. You started out saying that "furry is a GLBT issue" but it simply is not. It is an identity issue, similar perhaps to some of the issues GLBT people have, but it is not a GLBT issue. If you were black and posted "Why furry is a race issue" in an African American issues forum, it would get the same sort of response. It's not a race issue, it's not a GLBT issue. Not every minority group belongs as part of GLBT.

[Toasterlad]

19. If I Give You a Quarter, Will You Please Shut Up?

You act like people are going out of their way to attack you, yet YOU are the one who keeps dragging out this stupid "furries aren't people, too!" nonsense. If the past week or so has taught you ANYTHING - and, apparently, it hasn't - it should have taught you that no one fucking cares what you fucking do, as long as you don't whine about the rest of us not wanting to give you a pride cookie for it.

If you don't want to be called a freaking nutjob, stop posting things which make you sound like a freaking nutjob. Although it's pretty obvious that what you're really after is attention, in which case, I'm glad to oblige. I love criticizing bad theater.

[BillSam]

24. PLEASE LOCK THIS AND PUT UGP ON IGNORE

[undergroundpanther]

32. Bill sam what did I ever do to you?

Go ahead censor me. But know this hostility will not protect anyone from other radical thinkers who might say things and challenge beliefs and status quo's, by haring parts of themselves and different points of view and ideas that some are too scared of or defensive about to understand or relate to,ensuring liberation always will have fetters upon it..one way or another..

[Maddy McCall]

30. I'm trying to understand. You wear a cat tail out in public....

and you think that people are actually responding positively to the PR work you're doing?

By wearing a tail?

[undergroundpanther]

31. Sigh

yes I wear a tail,not all the time but alot.I like my tail.I have several in different colors and fur types.

There are animal identified people out there. You personally might not know any, but I do. I know several. Some are cats,wolves,birds,and other-kin .And they are my friends.Some are acquaintances.Some are furs I have seen around.Some I know only on the web..The thing furs and GBLT's have in common is we are not happy in the mainstream,some people cannot find happiness in the mainstream. We make an identity that suits ourselves instead of sitting around in the closet drowning in the mainstream.

Accepting others with identities you don't relate to is not a matter of striking a balance between a few limited perceptions. It's about simultaneously relating to many kinds of identities in order to see stereoscopically into the complexity that identity potentially can be in a society that could be free..It is also aknowleging that anyone's identity does not have to be limited by sex,gender or even species. Gender queer means your gender is not male or female,or androgynous,It is ambiguous and changes.That flexibility is arrived at by seeing a bigger reality ,of what identity means and it's potentiality as a thing of liberation relating to it's complex and unique ways in a web of identities in relation to other identities together.

Humanity has mindlessly clung to a destructive meta narrative,A well accepted fantasy where people have put humanity itself as the pinnacle of creation,as the lord of the world , believing on a core level humankind is so much better than mere "dumb" animals.. And if you think defending animal identified people is pointless you might need to learn more about why some forms of human culture is so toxic to life, so in denial, so stubborn in it is compulsive categorizing labeling ,And it's destructive hierarchy games, and the toxins and fears is what makes a culture that destroys the world as it fears ,derides and crushes things it cannot control or understand rather than risk finding a piece of themselves in that de-legitimatized 'other'.

Culture is nothing more but a web of individual identities in relationship to each other it can be big like the entire country or smaller like the gblt group here.

Beliefs about what should be or shouldn't be are fears that people absorb from many sources in their lives while living inside their culture.Beliefs shape alot about how people in said culture choose to interact with others that have non mainstream identities.It shapes whether they can even SEE them self in anyone else or not.

If you cannot see yourself in someone else who may have a very different identity than your own or you refuse to , you can easily "other" them, to the point they are objectified into scapegoats or "threats" or weirdoes to be rejected or scapegoated.. Defined as that other,a person and their identity as well is being rendered into an object of derision.

A person or a whole culture than can rationalize being mean to them, excluding them, and encourage the rest of the culture of like minded individuals to also hate and continue alienating further the objectified identity of a person or people or entire other culture, by refusing to be queer about it..

If everyone is potentially queer, and queer freedom is in everyone's interest, then it is obvious that we should all be fighting for queer liberation side by side, regardless of sexuality or gender.

Queerness is an ability and choice to relate to identities of all kinds and recognize it as part of themselves.

It is so easy when you are queer to see how differences can become other-ed,and identities thus other-ed to be objectified.Because being queer you run into it everywhere there are people that want to"other" you.

That disengagement of relation is what is allowing them to be bashed and the culture of individuals who cannot see themselves in the person's identity,be they black, gay, trans or feline,the 'mainstream norm followers will feel no shame in doing cruelty to that other-ed objectified person because they refuse to see them as an equal to themselves because they refuse to see a piece of themselves in them.


However, as Lindsey puts it, perhaps through interacting with her project, others'(furries trans-genders) "perspectives on the dominant culture will have been queered, as they look for themselves in the other, and find the other in themselves."
http://www.bgsu.edu/cconline/kitchenslarkin/instructor.html


I am Queer that is why I speak up for furries and for animal identified people,fat people,gays,body modified people, trans-genders,cross dressers,drag kings,gender queers,freaks,mentally ill people,or any other social scapegoats that are not harming anyone but are get bashed for being what they are. I seek the panther qualities in all of you to find the panther qualities in myself that makes me queer.

That seeking of identity by relating the self to other selves is the deeper meaning of what queerness is about at it's core.And being queer to others is the very thing that removes the sickening cultural oppression of different kinds if people and the denial of their rights to identify as who they are for whatever reason by the culture that refuses to see themselves in what they can't understand or tolerate in other people.

I am interacting as I truly am a Queer feline identified transgender because I seek to relate and embrace the other to find the self in relation within the other and the other within me..
And Like all of you, I too seek Liberation from the pain of being out-casted and other-ed by any culture that refuses to see me as part of itself,another variety of valid living being with an identity as valid as their own identity is to themselves.

We cannot be free beings if part of us is still not free. And I can't think of a more political reason to do what I do than that.
http://www.petertatchell.net/Equality%20-%20Limits%20and%20Deficiencies/beyond%20equality.htm