Vaccination Poll

[trotsky]

Poll question: Vaccination Poll

Just wanted to get a pulse reading here in the Health dungeon, since the Gardasil debates have been morphing into general anti-vaccination debates. What most closely resembles your opinion on vaccination?

[Justyce]

1. I voted #1, BUT

I've still been holding off on getting the Gardasil for my daughter. I'd rather let it be out a while & see what the real longterm side effects are. None of her friends have had it yet either, for the same reason.

[TZ]

13. Vaccines don't HAVE long term effects!

The spleen REMOVES THEM from our body within several weeks of injections..thats why you get BOOSTERS--cause sometimes it wears off.
In fact Gardasil requires boosters which means it get cleaned out quick.
I wish people would stop thinking that vaccines are something that linger in the body long term. THEY ARE NOT.
They simply stimulate the bodies own production of antibodies. This is biology 101 folks!

[CoffeeCat]

2. I'm pro-vaccination, but I won't do Gardisil...

The jury is still out on the long-term effects, and there are alternatives
to Gardisil (pap smears) that detect all forms of HPV. Gardisil only
prevents 70 percent of HPV.

Gardisil is new. Clinical trials were only for five years. Other
vaccinations have been around for decades and we know that they
are safe, although there are some side effects.

We don't know the long-term effects of Gardisil.

I'm not willing to take that gamble on a vaccine for which there
are other just-as-effective alternatives that produce NO side effects.

I'm not anti-vaccination, and I doubt most of the people with concerns
about Gardisil are either.

We're not talking about some rampant, communicable virus that is
spreading like wildfire. We're talking about HPV, which
is not spread through human contact and can be detected in pap smears.

The potential negatives don't outweigh the positives, in my opinion.

[salvorhardin]

23. "We're talking about HPV, which is not spread through human contact"

How do you think HPV is spread, if not through human contact?

[dropkickpa]

61. Not spread by human contact???

What else would you call fucking?

[Donnachaidh]

3. we don't really fall into any of those categories

Yes, we've all been vaccinated. However, my kid had a BAD reaction to the pertussis part of his dpt shots, so we made sure he didn't get that again with boosters. We're also up to date on all the new Hep vaccines.

We consider ourselves lucky - our child had a physical reaction we could SEE, so we were able to adjust his shots. My heart goes out to the parents who have children that may have developed autism because of their shots. I don't think we're ever going to get the truth from the pharma companies about what could possibly have caused the problem. They would rather see people die than admit they did something wrong (and opened themselves up to major lawsuits).

And if I had a daughter I'd say NO WAY to Gardasil. I don't think enough long term testing has been done, and it looks to be yet another cash cow for Big Pharma.

[FirstLight]

4. #4 here...

I learned the hard way that vaccines are not as beneficial as they may seem. My first child is vacinated, and they gave him 4 shots at once without keeping track of what went where...when he had a reaction, they couldnt tell me what injection it was..that did it for me.
My second two kids are NOT vaccinated, and after doing ALOT of research to come to this conclusion, I feel it was the right thing to do. Both my parents lived through childhood diseases. my dad had massive vaccines and exposure to chemicals during the Korean war that were NOT tested, as a result my sister and I both have immunological issues that surfaced right after our booster shots. I will not have my kids dealing with that gene getting turned on by toying with their immune sysyem.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

read "the sanctity of blood" for more info

Thimiserol is not safe, and I don't trust whatever else they put in those little vials. The dose given to a newborn is the same as an adult, which makes it 600 times stronger than that little body can handle. it is poison, legalized poison.

nope, unless there is a real threat of teatnus after an accident, we will not be geting any government mandated shots, flu shots etc.!

[trotsky]

5. Just so you know...

not looking to debate here, but thimerosal is no longer in any of the scheduled vaccines for children. Hasn't been for several years. And was never in the most common vaccine, MMR.

[mhatrw]

6. I note that "vaccinations must be considered separately on the basis of risk vs. reward" is missing.

What a surprise!

[trotsky]

7. Well golly, that's why I put "Other" and people can respond.

Just like you did! Fascinating, huh?

[mhatrw]

8. What's fascinating is that this choice seemingly never occurred to you. n/t

[trotsky]

10. Nobody else seemed bothered.

In fact, I'm delighted with the results of this poll. I can name the 5-6 people who oppose vaccination, so that means all your work is convincing NO ONE.

Hehehehehe

[mhatrw]

11. I'm not opposed to vaccination. I'm opposed to highly marketed vaccines that offer little benefit

at best vs. big risks at worst.

[trotsky]

12. Must be frustrating, though.

All that work. All that screaming. All that copy & paste work. All that insinuation, attacking, and insulting.

And you've convinced no one but your own little group.

Gosh it's as if you're wasting your time. Sweet.

[mhatrw]

18. trotsky, YOU egged my on. You are to blame.

But now you are now afraid to discuss the issues with me, and have transparently resorted to trying to discourage me into giving up.

Only a pathetic whining loser taking his "victory" in the results of his own rigged poll.

[cosmik debris]

22. That post has "loser" written all over it!

All you have left is to blame others for your own failures.

[mhatrw]

27. LOL.

Surrender monkey see. Surrender monkey do.

[cosmik debris]

31. Now you are not even making sense.

I guess it is past your bed time.

Go ask mommy to tuck you in and read you a story.

[mhatrw]

34. Are you calling me a mother tucker?

I used to be disgusted ...

[cosmik debris]

35. No, but I suspect that by this time of night you are quite drunk.

Your posts reflect that.

[mhatrw]

37. That must be it.

A mind is a terrible thing to small.

[kdmorris]

9. I stuck with the vaccination schedules for my daughters

And I got not only the 'childhood' vaccines, but a whole battery of crap when I went to Italy as a military dependent in 1974.

That being said, I think that the jury is still out on Gardisil for my daughter and I have not gotten it for her. I'm too uncomfortable with the way it was pushed through by a company that is known to have lied in the past. In addition, Gardisil may help prevent cervical cancer, but so do potentially less harmful procedures sure as yearly pap smears. There are no potentially less harmful ways of preventing measles or polio, therefore the Risk Benefit Analysis came down on the side of the vaccination being much less harmful than contracting the disease.

I have HPV. Got it from a faithless boyfriend years ago. As such, I have to get yearly pap smears for the rest of my life, rather than going to every 2 or 3 years. When it was first detected, I had lesions on my cervix, which were frozen off. I have not had a reappearance of those lesions in 13 years. Since I get yearly pap smears, any abnormalities will be detected early.

I am very much against forcing girls to get this vaccine in order to attend school. It is my opinion that vaccinations that must be taken to get into school should be strictly reserved for those that prevent Public Health air-borne communicable diseases like Measles, Polio, Mumps, etc. It should not be required for this type of {possible} disease.

[TZ]

15. Pap smears do not protect agaisnt cancer.

They detect it. And they accuracy of the test has been an issue for a long time..LOTS of false positives and false negatives..BTW, HPV vaccines originated elsewhere..It is NOT a Merck invention and actually quite a few OTHER companies have contributed to the research and testing.
The problem is Merck=Vioxx=Bad and EVIL. When in reality Merck actually has a lot of product on the market that is safe and reliable.
I have NEVER seen such an organized smear campaign agaisnt a vaccine. And when you see people from this site making arguments that sound supsciously similar to remarks made by RW fundies..ya gotta wonder.

[kdmorris]

16. I understand that pap smears don't prevent cancer

But I don't think enough research has been done on this vaccine to prove that it prevents cervical cancer, either.

I do realize that Merck has many valuable and effective drugs. I've taken some of them.

I hope you are not insinuating that I just listen to Fox News and I'm fine with whatever they say. Trotsky asked our opinion and I stated it as honestly as I could. I do not know if that vaccine is harmful. I don't know if it's safe. And the Risk Benefit Analysis on my youngest daughter (who is not sexually active yet) tends to lean toward not getting her the vaccine until it's been proven that the vaccine will actually not cause harm.

I do not think that children should never be vaccinated. I think I've stated that. But, when you are talking about my children (though none of them are really "children" anymore), I take this sort of thing very seriously. They all had had chicken pox when the vaccine for it came out, but they've had the vaccinations for every other item, on schedule.

I'm not smearing Merck or Gardisil. I'm saying I do not think that the risks outweigh the rewards AT THIS TIME, not enough for me to use my 16 year old as a guinea pig.

[mhatrw]

21. Gardasil is not proven to protect against cancer.

The only person who contracted cervical cancer in the entire 20,000 Gardasil subject trials came from the Gardasil group.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Nicely done, trotsky.

Very encouraging.

[cosmik debris]

17. Yep, the noise level from the anti-vax crusaders is not reflective

of their numbers.

We seem to have 10% of the people making 99% of the noise.

So what is it going to take to get the Mods to step in and end this lunacy?

[mhatrw]

19. Or maybe the people you think are "antivax" are just anti-crappy vax?

Could it be??????

[cosmik debris]

24. My conclusion is the same:

10% of the people making 99% of the noise. Your noise level is not proportional to your numbers.

In other words, you are trying to shout down opposing voices even though you are a small minority.

But the more you shout, the less you are heard.

[mhatrw]

26. Who you jiving? n/t

[cosmik debris]

29. The numbers tell the tale

And all you can do is whine that the poll was unfair. Everything is unfair, the world is out to get you. You poor thing!

[mhatrw]

33. Look here brother.

One less.

[beam me up scottie]

20. Vaccines today are unnecessary and in fact may cause more health problems than they prevent.

:wtf:

[mhatrw]

25. Yes, WTF. Which is why the poll is rigged.

Some vaccines have a shitty overall risk vs. reward profile while others have promising overall risk vs. reward profiles.

Of course, that was not given as an option because for our resident "scientologists" the idea of a single bad vaccine is capital heresy.

[trotsky]

28. Scientology is a religion based on the belief that "thetans" corrupt our minds.

And that Xenu punished those thetans billions of years ago by blowing them up with volcanoes on earth.

What the hell does that have to do with vaccination or your critics?

Do you have any idea what a "scientologist" is?

It's impossible to rig a poll on DU if an "Other" option is included, isn't it?

[beam me up scottie]

30. Once you suspend all logic you can make everything up as you go.

And then whine about how everything is rigged, how they're being attacked, blah blah blah

[mhatrw]

32. Thanks for the update, LL Cool Ron! n/t

[beam me up scottie]

36. Then why did you check that option instead of "other"? Do you not understand what "other" means?

I thought you were a professor.

[mhatrw]

38. I checked other, of course.

But the vast majority of people are content to fit themselves into the defined categories presented (or else refuse to participate at all). That's one of the biggest problems with our current level of "political debate" in the United States.

Wouldn't you agree?

[beam me up scottie]

42. You checked "other" and are still claiming that the poll is rigged?

Zeus help us all if you are a college professor.

[cosmik debris]

43. clown college maybe! n/t

[mhatrw]

47. I'll thank you not to refer to Princeton that way!

[cosmik debris]

49. See, that is why no one believes you.

You can't even make up believable stories.

[mhatrw]

50. It's a Simpsons quote.

Whoosh!

[cosmik debris]

54. See, that is why no one believes you.

You sound too much like a Simpson's episode, Homer.

[mhatrw]

57. Whatever you say, Milhouse. n/t

[psychmommy]

39. i am not anti-vaccine.

it seems the pro vaccine folks are trying to drown out the voices of the skeptics. threads have been moved because of the complaining and now it appears you don't want folks to be able to post here. i cry foul. we can disagree but, you have no right to try to silence our voices. the more i hear some of you pro-gardisil people the more i am turning away from the idea. pro-vaccine people doth protest too much.

[mhatrw]

40. They can't stand "one less" $360 payment. n/t

[cosmik debris]

41. The anti-vax crusaders are carpet bombing this forum

They are trying to shout down any dissent by repeatedly posting the same crap.

Two posters are responsible for most of the carpet bombing and it is clear that they have a scorched Earth policy. They will keep carpet bombing until all dissent is silenced.

Just count the posts. The numbers speak for themselves.

[beam me up scottie]

44. Don't bother. If someone makes medical decisions based on these paranoid posts, they're a lost cause

Darwin wouldn't want you to interfere.

[mhatrw]

46. Exactly! Only the sourest of grapes could possibly be persuaded by arguments you cannot counter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x42443

[mhatrw]

45. Shout down any dissent, my ass.

I am literally pleading with you to engage in a civil, reasoned discussion about the cost plus risk vs. benefit profile of Gardasil:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x42443

Unfortunately, you refuse to join in any civil discussion. Instead, you seek to censor all free and open discussion of the subject (presumably because you have been completely overwhelmed by facts and logic that you cannot dispute).

[cosmik debris]

48. I've been completely overwhelmed by the bullshit

and the bad logic and the bad science and the absolutely hateful tone of your posts.

There is no point in trying to discuss science with you because your arguments are all based on hate and fear.

If you really want to discuss science you wouldn't feel the need to carpet bomb the forum just to show how emotionally you treat this subject.

[mhatrw]

51. LOL!

Surrender monkeys are funny!

[cosmik debris]

53. Sometimes drunks are too

But you are the exception to the rule.

[mhatrw]

55. Well, maybe you can find someone more your speed at your local

7-11.

[beam me up scottie]

52. Yep, that's the same side effect I experienced.

A quick search of the op's in this forum will expose paranoid conspiracy agendas.

[mhatrw]

56. Funny you should mention side effects. n/t

[psychmommy]

58. they can't shout anybody down.

they are under constant attack, usually personal. i like to hear all sides in a discussion. when i see personal attacks and repeated posts of prove it, prove it na nanananana-pro vax folks lose their credibility, repeated straw men being thrown up-pro vax folks lose credibility. it doesn't seem to be all vaccines-gardisil seems to be the big issue. where there is fire there is smoke. theirs nothing going on over here, keep it moving folks-just doesn't work for me. these are our children you people are being so cavalier about. i'll see what happens to your children and if my kid chooses to get it when she is a little older, it will be an informed consent. she will be armed with info from all sides. people just want to be informed. some of us don't understand all of the scientific jargon. i like to hear from my peers on du. i'd like to hear both sides, not pro vax people ripping into the skeptics.

[cosmik debris]

59. The anti-vax crusaders are a loud screaming minority

They do not represent a consensus of the scientific community or a consensus of your peers on DU.

They are like a bad garage band. They compensate with volume for their deficiency in quality.

[cosmik debris]

60. Has anyone asked the anti-vax crusaders how they feel

About being in such a tiny minority?

About getting so few converts after such an extended carpet bombing session?

About generating so much animosity and distrust for their cause by being so belligerent in their approach?

[cosmik debris]

62. Kick

[trotsky]

63. You found it! Well done. n/t

[likesmountains 52]

64. I am an RN who has had to take antibiotics after exposure to Pertussis

(taking care of sick babies)and last year I decided to get vaccinated (booster) against it. I can tell you that Pertussis (Whooping Cough) is no minor inconvenience. It can kill babies and makes adults sick for months.

[xchrom]

65. vaccines are quite simply a corner stone of contemporary civilization nt

[Crunchy Frog]

66. I do think that vaccination is a critically important development in the history of medicine.

However, with my tadpoles, I will most likely NOT be sticking entirely to the reccomended schedule. I prefer to evaluate each vaccine on its merits and will probably skip some and delay others.

I don't have a black and white view of this issue, as many on this board seem to.

[trotsky]

67. You are correct, the black-and-white views of anti-vaxers are disturbing.

Those of us who support vaccination also recognize that they aren't 100% safe, nor can EVERYONE be vaccinated. But to make uneducated decisions based on what one "thinks" is a safe vaccine, or how many vaccines one "thinks" can be given, is ridiculous. Herd immunity is very, very important, and to refuse to take the tiny shared risk and put others in danger is just selfish and irresponsible.

[Crunchy Frog]

69. Just in case your remarks are directed at me...

I can assure you that I don't give a flying fuck what you think of my parenting choices, and I will make the best educated decisions that I can about when and which vaccines to give my kids, even if you think that my choices are wrong.

If you feel strongly enough that my choices are wrong, then you can work to implement a totalitarian system in which I won't have any choices.

[trotsky]

71. Others will protect you and your children then, by taking the risk for you.

Shared risk, shared reward. That's traditionally a liberal principle, but you are free to take a "I've got mine, fuck you" libertarian approach too. Hopefully there will always be enough who do vaccinate to protect those who don't... or more importantly, cannot.

[Crunchy Frog]

72. Yeah, whatever. I didn't even say that I'm not vaccinating

but you're free to read what you want into my post.

I'm planning for my infants to be regular Typhoid Mary's, spreading Hep B around wherever they go. :rofl:

[trotsky]

73. Your exact words:

I prefer to evaluate each vaccine on its merits and will probably skip some and delay others.

I apologize for "reading into" that sentence that you intend to skip some vaccinations. I don't know where I could have gotten that idea from. :eyes: But like I said, enough other people (for now) are willing to take the small shared risk of the vaccines so your precious brood won't have to face the real risk of dealing with a harmful or deadly disease. We non-freeloaders are happy to help.

[Crunchy Frog]

74. Well, feel free to get your panties in as big a twist as you like.

:hi:

[Codeine]

78. I'm sorry to tell you this,

but you simple are not qualified to make those evaluations. You'd love to believe you are, but I can just about guarantee that you have zero background for that sort of analysis.

[beam me up scottie]

68. Hell yeah, kick it baby!

Let those who prefer blindness stay in the dark.

[conscious evolution]

70. Believe it or not

I voted yes as to vaccines being an important developement.
My problem is when they are not tested adequately(ie...Gardasil for the prepubescant girls and the vac/autism link) or when drug companies try to cover up problems with vaccines and/or other drugs.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

75. Thanks for the honest poll unlike the other one on vaccines.

[uppityperson]

76. The other one just has qualifiers in it, like "some"

making it into giving the choices of "1 thing is totally right for everyone" or "SOME may have issues with SOME, no matter how small "SOME" is".

Proving that with enough qualifiers, you can seem to be asking a question and giving choices when you aren't.

[xchrom]

77. kick