Vaccine Phobia Becomes a Public Health Threat

[donco6]

Discover Magazine, January/February 2009
The Year in Science 2009, 100 Discoveries that are Changing the World
Andrew Grant

"The question will not go away: Do vaccines cause autism? Some 1 million to 1.5 million adults and children in the United States have received autism diagnoses, and there is no clear insight into its causes. What surprises many scientists is that their findings against a vaccine connection keep failin gto quell the debate, giving the antivaccine movement the potential to become a genuine public-health problem. . . .

"In October Michael D. Kogan of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and colleagues announced that about 1 of every 91 American children has a disorder on the autism spectrum. A 2008 study by the California Department of Public Health found that the number of children receiving services for autism in the state has risen steadily, despite a decreease to trace levels of mercury in their inoculations. Many experts attribute the growing prevalence to new diagnosis guidelines and increased awareness among doctors.

"Meanwhile, the reluctance of some parents to immunize their children can lead to the return of vaccine-preventable diseases such as measles, which broke out this past summer in Brooklyn, New York. According to Christopher Zimmerman, medical director of the New York City Health Department's Bureau of Immunization, the virus spread quickly among children who were not fully vaccinated, including those whose parents put off the shots because of concern about the autism-vaccine link. 'Measles can be a serious and life-threatening disease,' he says. 'Parents are putting their children at risk by not vaccinating on time.' Across the United States, reported measles cases shot up from 43 in 2007 to 140 in 2008, and more than 90 percent of those reported in 2008 were among children who were unvaccinated or had unknown vaccination status."

[IdaBriggs]

1. "Adverse events associated with MMR vaccines in Japan."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8741307

School of Medicine, Tokai University, Isehara, Japan.

"The largest nationwide active surveillance of four Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) vaccines was conducted in Japan. A total of 1255 pediatricians actively participated in the study, which comprised 8.6% of all members of the Japanese Pediatric Society. The total number of registered recipients of MMR vaccines was 38 203. They were arbitrarily given one of the MMR vaccines produced by three makers (Takeda, Osaka city, Kitasato Minato-ku. Tokyo and Biken Suita city, Japan) or the standard MMR vaccine made of designated strains (Kitasato's measles-AIK-C, Biken's mumps-Urabe Am9 and Takeda's rubella-To336) produced by Takeda, Kitasato and Biken and were observed for 35 days. The rates of virologically confirmed aseptic meningitis per 10,000 recipients were 16.6, 11.6, 3.2 and 0 for the standard MMR, Takeda MMR, Kitasato MMR and Biken MMR vaccines, respectively. The incidence of convulsions between 15 and 35 days was the highest with the standard MMR vaccine and the incidence of fever associated with vomiting occurring between 15 and 35 days (symptoms relevant to aseptic meningitis) were also the highest with the standard MMR vaccine. The incidence of parotid swelling was the lowest with Takeda MMR vaccine. This surveillance revealed that incidences of aseptic meningitis after administration of the standard MMR vaccine and of Biken MMR vaccine were different. This posed questions about the manufacturing consistency of the Urabe Am9 mumps virus vaccines. On the other hand, the National Institute of Health found that the biological characteristics of the Urabe Am9 mumps virus contained in the standard MMR vaccine and in the Biken MMR vaccine were different. The Biken Company reported that the mumps vaccine in the standard MMR vaccine was a mixture of two Urabe Am9 mumps vaccine bulks; one identical to that contained in the Biken MMR vaccine and the other produced by a different manufacturing process."

Edited for Bolding.

[donco6]

4. Rational use of measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine.

Measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine is a live vaccine preparation containing attenuated strains of all 3 viruses. MMR vaccine is widely used throughout the world, with the US having the widest experience with the vaccine. In countries where the vaccine has been introduced successfully, significant reductions in all 3 diseases for which it is protective have occurred. The vaccine has been shown to be highly immunogenic, with seroconversion rates of 95 to 100% being achieved for each of the 3 component vaccines. This immunity appears to be long-lasting and may even be lifelong. Minor adverse effects may occur approximately 1 week after immunisation. Rarely, mumps vaccine-induced meningitis (milder than that associated with wild mumps virus) may occur, its frequency varying with the strain of attenuated mumps virus contained in any particular vaccine. Clinically, the vaccine is indicated for infants aged between 12 and 15 months, and should be administered by intramuscular or deep subcutaneous injection. A few specific contraindications exist, including a genuine hypersensitivity to eggs, and to the aminoglycoside antibiotics kanamycin and neomycin. An increasing number of countries are now adopting a 2-stage MMR policy in an attempt to prevent epidemics among those who remain unprotected, and to move towards eventual disease eradication.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7686463?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

[IdaBriggs]

44. I cited a respectable study where 30 children out of 40,000

had "adverse" affects. According to your original article, 140 total NATIONWIDE in the US had problems from NOT getting vaccinated. Call it herd immunity, or call it math -- there appear to be more problems from getting your child vaccinated statistically than *not* - especially if you use the "wrong company's" product.

Do vaccines cause autism? Common sense says *something* is going on, and when a child receives over one hundred vaccines before age 2, I can see very clearly where individually a few vaccines aren't a problem, but a cumulative effect can have a problem, especially with the undeveloped myelin sheaths not yet fully protecting the brain. But we've also got pollution, nutrition, and who knows what other factors to consider, too, and since doctors don't *know* what causes autism, it seems to me arrogant to assume anything one way or the other.

There are some awful stories out there -- one clinic where the nurses didn't know to "shake" the bottle of vaccine (5 doses per bottle) which meant the kids getting dose 5 got *all* of the preservative that sank to the bottom of the bottle. Coincidentally, those kids developed autism disorders at a rate of 20 times the kids who *didn't* get the "last dose" in the container. Such a small thing to make the difference in a life....sigh.

The more I investigated while making the decision whether or not to vaccinate my twins, the more upsetting I found the data on both sides of the issue, and the fact this could be a life-and-death decision either way was outright terrifying. If my children had bad side effects or got the disease (depending on our decision), my family would have to live with the consequences.

I think I would probably have more faith in Big Pharma if cancer and the common cold were eliminated, but as profitable as these common conditions have become, I personally don't see that happening in my lifetime.

I will be bowing out of this discussion; these are decisions I believe each person has to make for themselves, and right now, these discussions can be just as toxic as whether or not illegal drug use is inappropriate for people who are raising children, or whether smokers have a right to indulge in public spaces.

:) Best, Ida

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. Let's see that list of 100 vaccinations before the age of 2.

[IdaBriggs]

58. My apologies for the exaggeration. The correct number is 37 by 18 months.

From http://www.trackingvaccinations.com/allfiles/schedule.htm --

Below is a generalized immunization schedule according to 2006 American health guidelines.
(adding up the number of diseases, equals 2 doses a week!)
at least,

Birth -- Hep B = (1)
2 months -- Hep B, DTaP, Hib, IPV, PCV = (10)
4 months -- DTaP, Hib, IPV, PCV = (8)
6 months -- Hep B(6-18 months), DTaP, Hib, IPV (6-18 mo), PCV = (9)
12-15 months -- DTaP, Hib, MMR, PCV, Var (12-18 mo) = (6)
subtotal = 37

24 months -- MPSV4 =(7)
4-6 years -- DTaP, IPV, MMR = (9)
11-12 years -- Td = (2) = total = 54

(Personal note: Some of the vaccines are "mixed" together, so it might not *seem* like that many; list does not include 'optional' ones.)

[laconicsax]

57. Common sense says that the earth is flat.

Common sense also says that the Sun and Moon are roughly the same size and both orbit a stationary Earth.

Studies show no meaningful correlation between vaccines and autism. The only study that did was revealed to be fraudulent. Diagnostic criteria for autism has changed and expanded, leading to more diagnoses, not necessarily more cases. Symptoms typically begin to show around the same age as the administration of some vaccines, but that's just happenstance.

You're absolutely right that doctors don't know what causes autism, but the real arrogance is assuming that your gut takes you closer to the answer than the current research. Even a simple cost-benefit type analysis can show the flaw in your thinking: If you get vaccinated, you gain immunity to a disease and you may suffer some adverse side effects (which have been shown to not include autism). If you don't get vaccinated, you gain no benefit, are at risk of contracting some pretty nasty diseases, and can become a carrier allowing the disease to spread.

Looks like getting vaccinated has tangible benefits and minimal risk whereas not getting vaccinated has no benefits and significant risk. As a result, I hope you'll forgive me if I prefer to rely on my brain and the brains of others to evaluate the issue more than your gut.

[IdaBriggs]

70. Asceptic meningitus was referenced in my first reply.

I won't argue with you. I have not (and will not disclose) the decisions my family has made. But allow me to repeat what you appear to have ignored in favor of ridicule:

"The rates of virologically confirmed aseptic meningitis per 10,000 recipients were 16.6, 11.6, 3.2 and 0 for the standard MMR, Takeda MMR, Kitasato MMR and Biken MMR vaccines, respectively. The incidence of convulsions between 15 and 35 days was the highest with the standard MMR vaccine and the incidence of fever associated with vomiting occurring between 15 and 35 days (symptoms relevant to aseptic meningitis) were also the highest with the standard MMR vaccine."

[laconicsax]

74. Asceptic meningitus is easily treatable.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000614.htm

Aseptic meningitis caused by a virus is usually a harmless disease. People usually recover fully 5 - 14 days after symptoms start.

Fatigue and light-headedness may last longer in some people.

But yeah--a less than one percent chance of this as a side effect is really too risky to take a chance on.

[trotsky]

75. Just curious...

What do you suppose the rates of aseptic meningitis (or full-blown meningitis for that matter), fever, vomiting, and convulsions are for actually contracting the diseases of measles, mumps, or rubella?

[LeftishBrit]

59. 100 vaccinations before 2? Where does this happen?

I have just checked the American vaccine schedule, and found that the following are recommended before 2:

Hepatitis B: 3 doses

HIB: 3 doses

Diphtheria/Tetanus/Pertussis: 4 doses

Pneumo: 4 doses

Polio: 3 doses

MMR: 1 dose

Varicella: 1 dose

Hepatitis A: 2 doses

Annual Flu vaccine from 6 months, so a maximum of 2 doses.


If a child gets all of these, this amounts to 23 vaccinations. If a 'triple vaccine' counts as 3 rather than 1, then this raises the total to 33: still nothing like 100!

In the UK it comes to 22 by a similar calculation: we don't give the varicella or rotavirus vaccinations, or recommend the annual flu one to most young children, but we do give the Meningitis C series in infancy. Our autism rates are the same as yours.


'one clinic where the nurses didn't know to "shake" the bottle of vaccine (5 doses per bottle) which meant the kids getting dose 5 got *all* of the preservative that sank to the bottom of the bottle. Coincidentally, those kids developed autism disorders at a rate of 20 times the kids who *didn't* get the "last dose" in the container'

Where is this reported?

[IdaBriggs]

68. See reply #58.

The "shake the bottle" problem was referenced in a lecture I attended some time back, and was reported in a respectable journal (it was about 5 years ago, so you'd have to google it yourself). :)

ON EDIT: Reply #58. Tired. :(

[Spider Jerusalem]

80. 30 out of 40,000=0.07%

Which is a very low risk of adverse effects.

Helpful hint: Google 'herd immunity' and look at what childhood mortality was before vaccination.

[hedgehog]

2. Very few people talk about this autism-vaccine link: the rubella vaccine

prevents a known cause of autism: prenatal exposure to rubella virus.

3. Follow-up report on autism in congenital rubella.
Chess S. J Autism Child Schizophr. 1977 Mar;7(1):69-81.

A longitudinal study was conducted of 243 children with congenital rubella. In this sample a high rate of autism and a high rate of recovery were observed. Examination of the data suggested that the rubella virus was the primary etiologic agent. It is hypothesized that the course of autism was that of a chronic infection in which recovery, chronicity, improvement, worsening, and delayed appearance of the autistic syndrome all were found. Other rubella consequences such as blindness, deafness, and cardiac and neuromuscular defects remained present except as modified by operations and prostheses. Degree of mental retardation initially was related to the outcome of autism but shifts in mental retardation over time did not correlate significantly for the group with shift in the autistic symptoms.

http://www.generationrescue.org/autism/00-autism-rubella.htm

Several different conditions that cause damage to the developing brain can result in autism. These include prenatal infections with viruses such as cytomegalogvirus (CMV) and rubella. Infection with these viruses during pregnancy
is harmless if the mother has already built up immunity to them. The risk of autism and other serious problems occurs only if a woman becomes infected for the first time during pregnancy. One excellent reason for universal MMR vaccination
, which includes vaccines against measles, mumps, and rubella, is that it gives rubella immunity to pregnant women, protecting their children.

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,4936,00.html


After the rubella epidemic of 1964, for example, there was a wave of autism in the U.S. -- some pregnant women who contracted rubella had children with the disorder.

http://whyfiles.org/209autism/2.html

[endless october]

3. the autism / vaccine study was a hoax.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2009/02/british-doctor.html

pretty much like everything else the anti-vax woo woos claim, the autism link is bullshit as well.

[ConnorMarc]

8. Get A Grip

The title of this "article", as I use the term loosely, is entitled the doctor "MAY" have lied.

A puff opinion smear job at best.

Which credible, reliable or valid news source uses terms such as MAY?

Bring the facts and just the facts and keep the bogus speculation and partisan and corporate BS to yourself.

[endless october]

15. here's some more anti-woo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece

"THE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found. "

[pinto]

32. The incidence of measles, mumps, and rubella varies according to vaccination coverage.

(from BMJ)
Incidence / Prevalence
The incidence of measles, mumps, and rubella varies according to vaccination coverage.

Measles: Worldwide, there are an estimated 30 million cases of measles each year, <3> but the incidence is only 0–10/100 000 people in countries with widespread vaccination programmes such as the USA, UK, Mexico, India, China, Brazil, and Australia. <4>

In the USA, before licensing of effective vaccines, more than 90% of people were infected by the age of 15 years. After licensing in 1963, incidence fell by about 98%. <5> The mean annual incidence in Finland was 366/100 000 in 1970, <6> but declined to about zero by the late 1990s. <7>

Similarly, the annual incidence declined to about zero in Chile, the English speaking Caribbean, and Cuba during the 1990s, when vaccination programmes were introduced. <8> <9>

Mumps predominantly affects children, with 32% of reported cases worldwide in children aged 0–4 years and 53% in children aged 5–14 years. <10> In the prevaccine era, by 10 years of age, 87% of the population in England had serological evidence of mumps infection. <11> Since the introduction of the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, there has been a decrease in the incidence of disease, such that in some countries (e.g. Finland), there is no longer any indigenous disease. <6>

Those cases that still occur are usually in an older age group, who are unvaccinated. For example, in 2005, over 56 000 cases of mumps were reported in England and Wales (compared with 16 000 cases in 2004). <12>

In contrast to figures from 1989, where 12% of cases occurred in people aged 15 years or over, in 2005 over 80% of cases occurred in this age group.

http://clinicalevidence.bmj.com/ceweb/conditions/chd/0316/0316_background.jsp

Sources:

3.Reducing measles mortality. http://www.unicef.org/immunization/index_measles.html (last accessed 10 January 2006).

4.Reported measles incidence rate per 100,000 population, 2003. http://www.who.int/vaccines-surveillance/graphics/htmls/meainc.htm (last accessed 10 January 2006).

5.Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Epidemiology and prevention of vaccine-preventable diseases. Atlanta: CDC, 2000.

6.Peltola H, Heinonen P, Valle M, et al. The elimination of indigenous measles, mumps and rubella from Finland by a 12-year, two-dose vaccination program. N Engl J Med 1994;331:1397�1402.

7.Peltola H, Davidkin I, Valle M, et al. No measles in Finland. Lancet 1997;350:1364�1365.

8.de Quadros CA, Olive J, Hersh BS, et al. Measles elimination in the Americas: evolving strategies. JAMA 1996;275:224�229.

9.Pan American Health Organization. Surveillance in the Americas. Wkly Bull 1995;1.

10.Galbraith NS, Young SE, Pusey JJ, et al. Mumps surveillance in England and Wales 1962�81. Lancet 1984;1: 91�94.

11.Morgan-Capner P, Wright J, Miller CL, et al. Surveillance of antibody to measles, mumps, and rubella by age. BMJ 1988;297: 770�772

[tigereye]

50. thanks pinto!

:hi:

[LeftishBrit]

55. The study was rubbish (and I formed my opinion by reading it when it came out)

This news article is certainly not the only record of it.

The study involved only 11 children, and no control group, which is essential in such studies. The whole theory comes from findings that some children, who were already known to be autistic and to have bowel problems, were found to have measles virus in their guts.

There was no control group to see whether *non*-autistic children might also have measles virus in their gut (subsequent studies have indicated that they sometimes do), and the assumption was made that the virus must have come from the vaccine. It could have come from environmental exposure to measles (which, because the children had been vaccinated, did not lead to disease) or even to contamination of the samples, a common problem in such experiments.

There was a later study in Japan, where the MMR vaccine was removed for a few years and then reintroduced, and there was no effect on autism rates.

[Spider Jerusalem]

82. Andrew Wakefield is under investigation for professional misconduct...

by the British General Medical Council, and may be struck off the medical register and have his right to practise medicine in the UK revoked. There's a fact for you. Fact two: Wakefield holds a patent on, guess what...a stand-alone measles vaccine.

See the following:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5913324.ece

Also, the text of the GMC's proceedings notice:

Fitness to Practise hearings
Dr Andrew WAKEFIELD Professor John WALKER-SMITH Professor Simon MURCH

Fitness to Practise Panel

Planned dates: 19 November - 23 December 2009
This session is expected to last 25 days.

Please note that the Panel is currently deliberating in private session until further notice.


The Fitness to Practise Panel will meet at Regent's Place, 350 Euston Road,
London NW1 3JN, to continue its inquiry into three new cases of conduct.

This case will be considered by a Fitness to Practise Panel applying the General Medical Council's Preliminary Proceedings Committee and Professional Conduct Committee (Procedure) Rules 1988.


Dr Andrew WAKEFIELD
GMC Reference number: 2733564
Professor John WALKER-SMITH GMC Reference number: 1700583
Professor Simon MURCH
GMC Reference number: 2540201

The GMC's statutory purpose is to protect, promote and maintain the health and safety of the public by ensuring proper standards in the practice of medicine.

We investigate complaints about individual doctors in order to establish whether their fitness to practise is impaired and whether to remove or restrict a doctor's registration.

The GMC does not regard its remit as extending to arbitrating between competing scientific theories generated in the course of medical research.
The following is a summary only of the allegations which will be made before the Panel at the forthcoming hearing.

The Panel will inquire into allegations of serious professional misconduct by
Dr Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith and Professor Murch, in relation to the conduct of a research study involving young children from 1996-98.

Dr Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith and Professor Murch, were at the relevant times employed by the Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine with Honorary Clinical contracts at the Royal Free Hospital.

It is alleged that the three practitioners were named as Responsible Consultants on an application made to the Ethical Practices Committee of the Royal Free Hospital NHS Trust ("the ethics committee") in 1996 to undertake a research study involving children who suffered from gastrointestinal symptoms and a rare behavioural condition called disintegrative disorder. The title of the study was "A new paediatric syndrome: enteritis and disintegrative disorder following measles/rubella vaccination". The Panel will inquire into allegations that the three practitioners undertook research during the period 1996-98 without proper ethical approval, failed to conduct the research in accordance with the application submitted to the ethics committee, and failed to treat the children admitted into the study in accordance with the terms of the approval given by the ethics committee. For example, it will be alleged that some of the children did not qualify for the study on the basis of their behavioural symptoms.

It is further alleged that the three practitioners permitted a programme of investigations to be carried out on a number of children as part of the research study, some of which were not clinically indicated when the Ethics Committee had been assured that they were all clinically indicated. These investigations included colonoscopies and lumbar punctures. It is alleged that the performance of these investigations was contrary to the clinical interests of the children.

The research undertaken by the three practitioners was subsequently written up in a paper published in the Lancet in February 1998 entitled "Ileal-Lymphoid-Nodular Hyperplasia, Non-Specific Colitis and Pervasive Developmental Disorder in Children" ("the Lancet paper").

It is alleged that the three practitioners inaccurately stated in the Lancet paper that the investigations reported in it were approved by the ethics committee.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield and Professor Walker-Smith acted dishonestly and irresponsibly in failing to disclose in the Lancet paper the method by which they recruited patients for inclusion in the research which resulted in a misleading description of the patient population in the Lancet paper. It is further alleged that Dr Wakefield gave a dishonest description of the patient population to the Medical Research Council.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield and Professor Walker-Smith administered a purportedly therapeutic substance to a child for experimental reasons prior to obtaining information about the safety of the substance. It is alleged that such actions were irresponsible and contrary to the clinical interests of the child.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield was involved in advising solicitors acting for persons alleged to have suffered harm by the administration of the MMR vaccine. It is alleged that Dr Wakefield's conduct in relation to research funds obtained from the Legal Aid Board ("LAB") was dishonest and misleading. It will be alleged that Dr Wakefield ought to have disclosed his funding from the LAB to the Ethics Committee but did not.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield ordered investigations on some children as part of the research carried out at the Royal Free Hospital from 1996-98 without the requisite paediatric qualifications to do so and in contravention of his Honorary Consultant appointment.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield failed to disclose his involvement in the MMR litigation, his receipt of funding from the LAB and his involvement in a Patent relating to a new vaccine to the Editor of the Lancet which was contrary to his duties as a senior author of the Lancet paper.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield acted unethically and abused his position of trust as a medical practitioner by taking blood from children at a birthday party to use for research purposes without ethics committee approval, in an inappropriate social setting, and whilst offering financial inducement.

[ConnorMarc]

5. Can Somebody, Anybody POST The Proof

That shows the scientific evidence that vaccines cured or saved society from disease?

I'd like to see some evidence please.

Thanks.

[endless october]

6. glad to!

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/SmallpoxEradication/

[ConnorMarc]

13. Interesting You Use The CDC As Your Source

One of the most corrupt and vile associations this side of Western civilation.

Anyway, you should read around more...

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/incao.html
http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-mercury.htm
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/01/27/mercury-in-vaccines-was-replaced-with-something-even-more-toxic.aspx
http://www.garynull.com/SwineFluWhitePaper.pdf

But hey, if you find a sense of security, aid and comfort from one of the main organizations funded and ruled by the Pharmaceutical Industry...knock yourself out.

[Odin2005]

14. Wow, what a load of BS.

[ConnorMarc]

17. I Agree

The CDC is a load of grade A, first class cowdung.

[kestrel91316]

31. Cite proof that the CDC page on smallpox eradication contains factual errors.

Then when you are done, cite proof that their pages on rabies control also contain factual errors.

Political-based rants against the messenger never have and still do not constitute any sort of proof that the message is false.

[ArbustoBuster]

53. You have lost all hope of credibility

To accept that the CDC is vile and corrupt, you must accept the following postulates:

1) Thousands of doctors, nurses, administrators, and clerical workers are all evil monsters who work for lower-than-industry-standard government wages and refuse to blow the whistle on an organization that deliberately kills people to keep pharmaceutical companies profitable.
2) These same thousands of doctors, nurses, et cetera aren't willing to become millionaires by selling their stories to Fox News and making the Obama Administration look bad by telling everything they know about the Evil CDC Bastards.

Anyone who can believe both these postulates is clearly too credulous for their own safety.

Now we will look at the sources of the links you gave:

Whale.to is a site full of crazy. One of the pages on the site (http://www.whale.to/b/monkeys.html) is a book titled "MONKEYS OF EDEN - the telepathic Overlords and the Slaves of Earth" and states, "This book is about the Hidden Reality, the species hidden amongst our midst that think of themselves as superior and of us as their Livestock. The Aryan Noble Reptoids of Eden, hermaphroditic and still angry that their birthright to rule was given away by God to the Sons Of Jacob when God became pleased with Jacob that he had wrestled with an Angel, and gave to him Jacobs' Pillow or the Stone of Destiny as a token of his divine right to rule the Earth. His red hairy Aryan Brother Esau was much displeased with the Jacobites at that - and thus signals the beginnings of massive unemployment and government underfunding in Health, Education, Infrastructure and Culture in what would later become Scotland." This isn't a joke book - I tracked down the author's web site and discovered that he really believes he was abducted by aliens and there are aliens living on Earth right now. So Whale.to is a site of crazy, and we can discount it.

The healing-arts.org site is run by a group that practices "Traumatic Incident Reduction", which is a fun little bit of bunk that involves "Applied Metapsychology" (http://www.tir.org/about-amp.html). Beyond the fact that it's run by woo-believers, the page you linked is going on and on about thimerosal, which is kind of sad, since thimerosol has been removed from vaccines routinely recommended for children so this is a non-issue (http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228).

The third site you link to is the site of Joseph Mercola, who has been warned repeatedly by the FDA for illegally promoting bunk nutritional products, and who has been ripped to shreds in the media for his BS marketing tactics (http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/may2006/sb20060523_063274.htm). Mercola's site is promoting vaccine-scare ideas from Neil Miller, who is a psychologist who has made a business out of vaccine-scares for the last 20 years. Miller is another of the lunatic-fringe, having written "Gadzooks! Extraterrestrial Guide to Love, Wisdom and Happiness" (http://thinktwice.com/gadzooks.htm), a book of religious guidance he "received from aliens".

Gary Null is a talk radio host who is such a liar that the head of PBS refused to allow his TV show to be aired and said that showing his program on PBS would "open the door to quacks and charlatans" (and that is a quote).

Can we please be done with this vaccine crap now? The proponents of it all seem to be cranks, quacks, lunatics, or uneducated Hollywood actors.

[laconicsax]

67. You can't prove the telepathic overlords don't exist!

:rofl:

Google "Aryan Noble Reptoids of Eden." The first three hits are two pages from whale.to and your response here. This response might be number 4 when Google updates.

[endless october]

18. wait

i'm supposed to toss out established science because the natural medicine crowd made up nonsense about vaccines?

i guess the Times is in on the conspiracy as well.

if there's an autism link, prove it through peer-reviewed research minus the faked data.

[Posteritatis]

21. No, see? All peer-reviweed evidence is intrinsically wrong!

That's why it's pointless to talk to antivaxxers; they'll just do what this doofus did and ignore the fact that smallpox isn't around anymore because he doesn't want to recognize that various health organizations wiped it out.

[tblue37]

42. Many other childhood diseases are almost nonexistent now, too--except

in areas with a critical mass of non-vaxxers. I remember when my brother and sister had whooping cough (pertussis) back in the 1960s. It seemed as though both would cough their lungs out! Who gets whooping cough any more? Who gets measles? My ex-husband had one of his testicles swell up and then shrivel up when he caught mumps in adulthood. Who gets mumps any more?

All those diseases, which used to be experienced by almost all children--and often with serious, even fatal, side effects--are now virtually nonexixtent except in areas where a significant number of children are not vaccinated.

Parents used to have a lot of kids because they simply didn't expect them all to survive to adulthood, and the reason for that high childhood mortality rate was the prevalence of common childhood diseases like measles, mumps, whooping cough, smallpox, etc. Sometimes babies were not even named until they had surived their first year, because so many died before reaching the age of one, and parents didn't want to waste their favorite name on a baby that wasn't going to live.

As a child I was enthralled by 19th-century novels and read them all the time. From reading them, I got so used to the idea that most families lost several children before age 10 that I fretted over which of the six kids in my family were destined to die young. But by that time (the 1950s) childhood vaccination programs had made it far less likely that children would die of a common childhood illness, and since then even more childhood diseases have been virtually vanquished (like whooping cough, for example).

Before the polio vaccine was invented, certain seasons of the year were terror seasons for families who feared, with good reason, that their kids would contract polio. I remember seeing a lot of kids with saddle oxfords (we called them "polio boots") and leg braces when I was a child in the 1950s. I haven't seen a single one in this country since then, though.

Oh--and here is another one. Tetanus shots now save people who would have died from minor wounds in the past. My great-grandmother on my mother's side was a corn husker in Alabama in the 19th century. She got a cut from husking corn--essentially like a paper cut, though caused by the husk of a cob of corn. She developed tetanus and died from the cut. That sort of death is not often found in developed countries any more--because of shots to prevent it.

[SidDithers]

19. When your first source is whale.to...

you can immediately be dismissed as a nutter.

Sorry.

Sid

[superduperfarleft]

26. Or mercola. n/t

[GoCubsGo]

39. Especially mercola...

"Vaccines are bad. But, my wide assortment of supplements, my Blue Tube, my tingle massager, and my Mercola Turbo Oven will cure what ails you."

[kestrel91316]

30. Cite proof that the smallpox link posted contains factual lies, or

stop claiming that the CDC is lying.

[Robb]

33. Hooray, another anti-science woo for my ignore list. nt

[Walk away]

34. Risking childrens lives because a few nuts don't believe in science...

is a bad idea. How many people have you terrified whit this crap?

[LeftishBrit]

61. The World Health Organization says the same...

http://www.euro.who.int/mediacentre/PR/2008/20080421_1

as do the health services in many countries with 'socialized medicine'.

And as regards 'vile', one couldn't get much more vile than whale.to, the first site that you link. Here's what I said about it in a post a few months ago:

whale.to is very nasty and dangerous in all kinds of ways.

Firstly, it is hostile to ALL forms of so-called 'allopathic' medicine - not just vaccines - and recommends that people suffering from serious diseases such as cancer and AIDS should reject standard medical treatments, which, however imperfect they may still be, are at least much more proven than the treatments hawked at this site, such as ozone therapy for AIDS.

Secondly, it promotes far-right philosophies and conspiracy theories; e.g. it has an entire section dedicated to 'The Auschwitz Hoax'.

The attitude to atheists and secularists is absolutely vile; e.g. a very nasty attack on Richard Dawkins.


Writers whose articles are posted or linked at the site include:

(1) Eustace Mullins, who as a young man acted as a researcher for Joe McCarthy and still defends him. He is also a virulent antisemite who claims that Jews drink children's blood at religious ceremonies, and were themselves the main perpretrators of the Holocaust against other Jews who refused to go to Israel.

In 'The Curse of Canaanism' he wrote:

The Khazars are the current Zionists.... They planned to dominate the world. They have come pretty close. They incarnate in every religion and into many different societies, and draw the people wherever they are into their current plan of the New World Order. They have been in one guise or another on earth since ancient times. They are the fallen angels and the minions of the off world controllers. They are the Illuminati.

All you Christians, who are in support of Israel, are in support of
the lesser gods who took control of the planet so long ago, and
keep you in a condition of slavery... These Zionist Jews still detest the Gentiles'

(2) G. Edward Griffin, who was a member of the John Birch Society; supported George Wallace's candidacy for president; and was a writer for his running-mate Curtis LeMay. He was a founding member of the very right-libertarian 'Freedom Force'.

(3) Henry Makow, an extreme all-round right-winger. He has expressed virulent racism, antisemitism and homophobia, and perhaps most of all sexist hostility to women (his website is called savethemales.com). Hereare some excerpts from a generally far-RW and specifically highly homophobic 2007 article:

'For centuries the Masonic central bankers who control Western society and culture have been pushing "tolerance." Why?

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a notorious "forgery" that uncannily explains the reason. It says the Illuminati bankers want to "dislocate all collective forces which are still unwilling to submit to us." (Protocols, Section 5)

The four major collective forces are: Race, Religion, Family and Nation. They are the four pillars of our human identity.

How do you undermine them? Certainly a frontal attack would meet with spirited resistance. Instead you promote "tolerance" which destroys these collective forces by erasing the differences between them.

Thus you have ecumenism in religion, miscegenation in race, and regionalism (i.e. EU, NAU) in nation states. You destroy family by erasing gender differences....

. We must tolerate whatever undermines the four collective forces but have "zero tolerance" for efforts to resist or uphold them. Tolerance for Rothschild shills; zero tolerance for everyone else.

Thus Black rappers can trash Black females but Don Imus was fired for a passing remark. Zero tolerance for white heterosexual Christians.

Gay activists can plot the end of "hetero-normative" society but the EU censors Poland for "hate" because it doesn't allow public schools to promote homosexuality.
American Zionists can instigate disastrous wars, but the EU declares illegal any scrutiny of the Jewish holocaust, which might deprive Zionists of their impunity. The truth can withstand scrutiny. ...


In the one-race, one-religion, one-world government, we are to have one sex as well. The bankers are creating a homosexual society by confusing us about gender and sexuality. (This confusion is called "Diversity." )

In 1973 the Rockefellers had the American Psychological Association change the definition of homosexual from a disorder to a normal lifestyle choice.

The APA is lobbying to have homosexuals declared "a protected minority." It engages in intimidation and propaganda. It threatened with boycotts "states whose citizens passed APA disapproved laws regarding homosexuality....

..."Tolerance" shames us into giving up our humanity. Let's resist by strengthening our identities: heterosexuality, nation, religion and race...'


This is not a site to be endorsed or used as a reliable information source by progressives or indeed by anyone vaguely sane.

[ck4829]

9. Go ask smallpox and polio this question

[Warpy]

10. You must be quite young

A lot of us here on DU were around before vaccines were developed for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox. The diphtheria and tetanus vaccines are probably the oldest ones, along with the smallpox vaccine.

We grew up losing friends to these diseases. If our friends were lucky, they'd show up in school with leg braces or in wheel chairs. More often, they weren't lucky.

I lost a friend to a disease that young people who didn't experience it laugh off, measles. I had measles encephalitis, too, and it damn near killed me.

Rubella was a special threat to pregnant women. If they hadn't had a case as children and caught it as adults while pregnant, the birth defects it caused in the fetus could be horrific.

While I could cite you the morbidity and mortality statistics available at the CDC and WHO websites, you probably would discount those as much as you will discount the experience of your elders who lived through it. The truth is that all these vaccines save lives.

However, just be aware that your attitude will convince sensible people of something about you I sincerely doubt you want widely known.

[csziggy]

37. Yes, we know the consequences of no vaccines

I went to school with a girl who had to wear braces on her legs because she had suffered through polio - her parents were some religious sect that did not believe in hypodermics so they did not get their daughters vaccinated. They were lucky that only one got polio and that she survived without the care their religion prohibited.

Our school was half empty for a while because of a mumps epidemic. I went to school with a boy who was partially deaf because of rubella. That also had a run through our school as did measles. Some kids never came back to school - I suspect there may have been deaths, but in first and second grade we were not told. I have lung damage from having smallpox and whooping cough as an infant.

The other costs - one of the mentally handicapped children in my neighborhood was that way because his mother had rubella while pregnant. His family spent a lot of money to keep him alive but he did not live to the age of twelve. It was heartbreaking.

The idea that the slim chance of complications from vaccinations is worse than the actual diseases is totally bizarre to me. The people who claim that must never have seen the actual diseases first hand.

[tigereye]

51. thanks for posting!

[SidDithers]

11. Really?...nt

Sid

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Posteritatis]

20. No you wouldn't. (nt)

[sharp_stick]

22. Holy Shit

As someone who watched a little girl try to breath and sleep through 4 days of pertussis I can attest to it personally.

As for the rest of your post, what the hell? When was the last time you saw a case of Polio, Smallpox, Tetanus etc.

One of the problems with vaccines is that they worked so well, pathetic assholes can pretend they aren't doing anything because they've never had to deal with things like these diseases that decimated entire fucking populations.

[superduperfarleft]

23. What, do you think smallpox just got bored or something?

And by the way, google "herd immunity." You can thank me (and us) later.

[donco6]

28. You must be kidding. n/t

[kestrel91316]

29. One word: RABIES. Without rabies vaccines to control the disease in domestic

animals and some wildlife, and postexposure prophylaxis using the vaccine in humans, I would venture a guess that many millions of human lives have been saved from this 100% fatal disease since Louis Pasteur invented the treatment.

EPIC FAIL doesn't even begin to describe your ignorant post and viewpoint.

[Tumbulu]

72. While in West Africa in the late 70's as a PCV I knew a family of five who died from rabies

the minister of vet medicine did not supply the power to keep the refrigerators operating and the vaccines lost their efficacy. Vets who immunized pet dogs and cats in the capital city found their efforts to be useless. It was so horrible.

Their death was very painful.

My current vet even vaccinates my old horse for rabies. Thank goodness we have power to keep our vaccines refrigerated.

[pinto]

36. The incidence of measles, mumps, and rubella varies according to vaccination coverage.

(from BMJ)
Incidence / Prevalence
The incidence of measles, mumps, and rubella varies according to vaccination coverage.

Measles: Worldwide, there are an estimated 30 million cases of measles each year, <3> but the incidence is only 0–10/100 000 people in countries with widespread vaccination programmes such as the USA, UK, Mexico, India, China, Brazil, and Australia. <4>

In the USA, before licensing of effective vaccines, more than 90% of people were infected by the age of 15 years. After licensing in 1963, incidence fell by about 98%. <5> The mean annual incidence in Finland was 366/100 000 in 1970, <6> but declined to about zero by the late 1990s. <7>

Similarly, the annual incidence declined to about zero in Chile, the English speaking Caribbean, and Cuba during the 1990s, when vaccination programmes were introduced. <8> <9>

Mumps predominantly affects children, with 32% of reported cases worldwide in children aged 0–4 years and 53% in children aged 5–14 years. <10> In the prevaccine era, by 10 years of age, 87% of the population in England had serological evidence of mumps infection. <11> Since the introduction of the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, there has been a decrease in the incidence of disease, such that in some countries (e.g. Finland), there is no longer any indigenous disease. <6>

Those cases that still occur are usually in an older age group, who are unvaccinated. For example, in 2005, over 56 000 cases of mumps were reported in England and Wales (compared with 16 000 cases in 2004). <12>

In contrast to figures from 1989, where 12% of cases occurred in people aged 15 years or over, in 2005 over 80% of cases occurred in this age group.

http://clinicalevidence.bmj.com/ceweb/conditions/chd/0316/0316_background.jsp

Sources:

3.Reducing measles mortality. http://www.unicef.org/immunization/index_measles.html (last accessed 10 January 2006).

4.Reported measles incidence rate per 100,000 population, 2003. http://www.who.int/vaccines-surveillance/graphics/htmls/meainc.htm (last accessed 10 January 2006).

5.Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Epidemiology and prevention of vaccine-preventable diseases. Atlanta: CDC, 2000.

6.Peltola H, Heinonen P, Valle M, et al. The elimination of indigenous measles, mumps and rubella from Finland by a 12-year, two-dose vaccination program. N Engl J Med 1994;331:1397�1402.

7.Peltola H, Davidkin I, Valle M, et al. No measles in Finland. Lancet 1997;350:1364�1365.

8.de Quadros CA, Olive J, Hersh BS, et al. Measles elimination in the Americas: evolving strategies. JAMA 1996;275:224�229.

9.Pan American Health Organization. Surveillance in the Americas. Wkly Bull 1995;1.

10.Galbraith NS, Young SE, Pusey JJ, et al. Mumps surveillance in England and Wales 1962�81. Lancet 1984;1: 91�94.

11.Morgan-Capner P, Wright J, Miller CL, et al. Surveillance of antibody to measles, mumps, and rubella by age. BMJ 1988;297: 770�772

[donco6]

48. crickets. Anyone surprised? n/t

[SidDithers]

54. Nope. I suspect that poster knows better than to return to this thread...nt

Sid

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. It boggles the mind that you could possibly be this fucking stupid.

[LeftishBrit]

56. Um, the disappearance of smallpox, for example?

The fact that children who are vaccinated against measles rarely get it, whereas the disease is common in regions where the vaccination is not available, and used to be common in the West?

[ck4829]

7. Maybe the problem is with this whole "spectrum" idea

Anyone who is not "normal" must have something wrong with them, right?

And it must have been caused by vaccines.

:sarcasm: for the vaccine comment.

[Odin2005]

12. I'm suck of this fradulent BS claiming that I'm "poisoned".

Fuck them.

[superduperfarleft]

25. Holy shit, you're autistic??!!!!111one

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

46. Yes, surprisingly autistic people do actually exist.

And most of them are capable of communicating normally to some degree rather than wandering around going "NUMMMMRAAAAAGHHHHRRR" or whatever Oprah would have you believe.

[Odin2005]

64. And we are not "tragedies", despite Autism Speaks' claims otherwise.

[seabeyond]

24. the two studies didnt confirm. people dont believe. then anyone says something

they are shouted down as fundies, anti vaccine and everything else. talk to a doctor and they dont discuss, they opening ridicule and sneer with disdain.

it leaves everything open, and trust isnt there.

[TheWraith]

27. Because the anti-vaccine nutters DESERVE ridicule.

It's absolutely no different from the creationists. You have science on one side, and on the other side is false beliefs. There can't be a "debate" between these sides because THEY ARE NOT EQUAL.

[seabeyond]

35. to suggest a parent not question health of child ridiculous. to suggest the two test that are

out there on this as scientific fact is not correct. and to ridicule, and refuse to think twice is ignorant.

to suggest that a person is anti vaccine because they ask question is dishonest.

people have tried to get everyone on board with scorn. golly gee. doesnt work. go figure. now THAT is stupid.

[Posteritatis]

38. IF they actually were testing things, or thinking about things, that'd be fine

But all of what I'm seeing on the anti-vaccination issue is anecdotes, conspiracy theories, profound ignorance ("I found out that they're putting viruses in our vaccines now!!") and bald-faced lies, coupled with a healthy dose of "I refuse to ever consider anything that contradicts my beliefs" like that guy upthread who apparently refuses to believe that smallpox isn't around anymore.

If people want to ask questions, then they should ask questions, not make ridiculous loaded statements worded to look like questions whose answers they've already decided for themselves.

[TheWraith]

41. Yeah, and the 9/11 truthers are just "asking questions" too.

The anti-vaccine nutters are deliberately spreading completely false information that can result in children getting seriously harmed or killed. Considering that they have no scientific evidence supporting their claims, I have no reason to pull punches in saying that they're wrong.

[tigereye]

52. but in most cases, sea, the benefits of vaccines well outweigh the risks

and most pediatricians, medical experts, NIH, NIMH and reams of studies agree that vaccines do not cause autism.

[Odin2005]

40. Andrew Wakefield and David Kirby are PPROVEN liars.

They should be in jail for fraud.

[TheMightyFavog]

43. House had a great bit on this...

All natural, no dyes. That's a good business - all-natural children's toys. Those toy companies, they don't arbitrarily mark up their frogs. They don't lie about how much they spend on research and development. And the worst that a toy company can be accused of is making a really boring frog. Gribbit, gribbit, gribbit. You know another really good business? Teeny tiny baby coffins. You can get them in frog green, fire engine red. Really. The antibodies in yummy mummy only protect the kid for six months, which is why these companies think they can gouge you. They think that you'll spend whatever they ask to keep your kid alive. Want to change things? Prove them wrong. A few hundred parents like you decide they'd rather let their kid die then cough up 40 bucks for a vaccination, believe me, prices will drop *really* fast. Gribbit, gribbit, gribbit, gribbit, gribbit.

[kickysnana]

49. Case in point bogus Lyme Disease Vaccine*

Two sides. Big pharma will do anything for profit. Buy the CDC/FDA, fire all their quality control, buy Chinese ingredients. Look at the recent problems with heparin, digitalis etc.

Vaccines can and have saved lives.

Letting big corporations that have bought legislation that frees them from all liability make vaccines you must give your infant is insanity. And for each parent to try to find out who makes the vaccine their pediatrician is giving and where the ingredients came from is very problematic. That is what the FDA was supposed to be doing for us. Now they work for big pharma.

The current tests for Lyme disease pick up only 39% off blood borne illness according to current FDA/CDC minimum standards for tests. Lyme goes deep tissue in about 6 months. The best Lymetest on the market today picks up less than 70% of cases and the CDC requires you be positive on the 39% test first. Lyme can overwhelm the immune system and leave no free antibodies to pick up. Some people do not make antibodies to Lyme (they die by the way). How can you possibly make a vaccine for a disease you cannot test for.

They made the vaccine based on one of the three surface proteins. Having the spirochete genome patented made other vaccine makers fearful. Peer reviewed research showed that that protein in genetically predisposed people up to 20% of the population caused the immune system to target the body especially the joints and hearts of those people, no treatment no cure, most had total disability. We had a whole new epidemic to deal with. Due to public outcry and rather than face lawsuits Glasco-Welcome withdrew that vaccine. There was never any proof that that vaccine worked.

[Liberal Veteran]

60. Pshaw! Who are you gonna believe? Discover Magazine or noted scientist Jenny McCarthy?

[Odin2005]

65. McCarthy = bigoted slimebucket.

She essentially has said that I have no soul. Fuck her.

[Posteritatis]

73. Ack, really?

I didn't follow her that closely past the initial writing off for kookery - she actually went that far? Ugh.

[Odin2005]

76. Yep.

She claimed that she could "see her son lose his soul" when he got his MMR shot.

[Posteritatis]

81. Aaaaargh. (nt)

[mzmolly]

62. Wow, 10 recs and no link?

Fascinating...

[SidDithers]

63. The citation is there for all to see...

Discover Magazine, January/February 2009
The Year in Science 2009, 100 Discoveries that are Changing the World
Andrew Grant

Sid

Edit: removed smarmy comment

[mzmolly]

66. I saw the citation.

I'd like a link to the story.

[SidDithers]

69. You might have to go buy the magazine...nt

Sid

[mzmolly]

71. I have little respect

for the biased claims, so I think I'll pass on that one.

[SidDithers]

77. Then you'll just have to wait until the issue is put online...nt

Sid

[mzmolly]

78. Yes, me and the 14 people who recommended

an incomplete, biased, snippet. ;)

[SidDithers]

79. I guess people agreed with what they read...

as is their right.

Sid