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Repubs are right, people of faith are being attacked in our country.......

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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:23 AM
Original message
Repubs are right, people of faith are being attacked in our country.......
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 10:45 AM by Wetzelbill
But they aren't on the Christian Right. The Christian Left - of which I consider myself - are one of the most suppressed groups in the nation today. A Democratic politican gets ridiculed for being "lib'rul" when they express views according to their faith. If Ted Kennedy or John Kerry -both Catholics- were to cite the Beatitudes "Blessed are the peacemakers..." in opposition to the Iraq War, for example, Fox News and administration hit men in Congress would go completely nuts. Yet, if Dems filibuster some of the goofiest ideologue judges ever nominated, James Dobson, Tom Delay and the whole Pharisee cult go ballistic about repression against people of religious conviction.

If I were to suggest Supply-Side economics were immoral and anti-Christian -which they are and which I will do, if and when I run for office - the laissez-faire crowd would want to lynch me.

Before I go and ramble on and get off topic, I'll just say this:
The Christian Right views faith the the prism of a fearful, vengeful God. That's why they condemn and resist gay and gender rights as well as secular humanism. They believe that God punishes sinners and offers no redemption to the unconverted. If you are gay, well, God may not hate you, but you are unnatural and will be punished if you cannot convert from your weaknesses.

The Christian Left - similar to secular humanism minus the theology - views faith through the prism of a loving and inclusive God. For example:

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


The Christian Left doesn't believe in condemnation, but love. That's why we believe that it is immoral to deny basic rights to other human beings. (marriage, civil entitlements etc.) That is why we embrace the poor, not disdain them and so on. A much more passive worldview than the aggressive approach of the Right. It's also much more in line with the Constitution, as well.

Anyway, TO BE CONTINUED....

Looking forward to the comments. :)
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've been waiting for years for the Christian left to speak up
I lost faith in the supernatural many years back, so I don't consider myself a Christian. That, plus the fact that I'm no Biblical scholar, has kept me from defending true Christanity from Fristianity. I've been frustrated beyond belief that Christians did little to counteract the people who've hijacked their religion. It's about darned time that people who worship a loving God have taken back their religion (as opposed to their faith, which is a personal thing).
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. I may add I am not a big fan of organized religion at all
I pretty much do my own spiritual thing.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. I am tired of people who don't act like Christians, judging me
Judging people is a sin according to God. He is the only who can judge. So I guess they think they are God....
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I am the federal government, I am the one and only God......
I couldn't go to Vietnam because all the minorities took those good, well paying jobs from us rich, clean cut, drunken white frat boys.

The Gospel according to DeLay.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. It is obvious that the Dominionists are not true Christians
What happened to caring for the poor, the weak, the lame? What about Christ's teachings on the evil of mammon? I take exception to some taking such a selective view of the bible. They believe in a harsh, punishing god, not a loving, peaceful one.
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johnnomac Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I agree 100%
I am a Christian, and I seem to live like many conservative Evangelicals. Wait! Before you start throwing fruit, I'd like to finsh my post. As a Christian, moral values are an incredibly important issue for me. Specifically, the moral value of taking care of the poor is #1. As such, my political leanings are towards the left. And, because of this, I am sometimes seen as an evil Godless liberal! <cue dramatic chord>
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Evangelical?
You're an evangelical and left leaning? I thought Wallis was the lone voice of reason in evangelical christianity. Odd. How did you escape the brainwashing Sunday sermons?
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johnnomac Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Well.... sorta.....
I actually don't go to an Evangelical church. My church is Anglican (Episcopal). But having gone to an Evangelical-ish camp for several years, and having read the Bible, and having done a lot of thinking and discussing, I've come to my own beliefs. If you ask me how I live my life, and what I would recommend somebody do in a given situation, I think I would answer similarly to most Evangelical teenagers. But when it comes to political issues (especially those involving poverty) I seem to be pretty far left.

Here's my reasoning: I am a white kid from the rich suburbs. I don't need the government to take care of me. I can more or less do that myself. But there are people who DO depend on the government for support. And, (to borrow a phrase from an old Top Ten list) I would rather stick my face in an arc welder than deny the poor what they need. If that makes me Godless and liberal, so be it.

"The conservatives call me a hippie, the hippies call me a fascist, the fascists call me weak, and I just don't care."
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Evil godless liberal here.
There are much worse things for which to be mistaken.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. Mostly adhering
to the teachings of the Old Testament doesn't make one a Christian, IMO. Ignore the teachings of Jesus at your own peril, oh, you foul Dominionists. They are pharisees and moneychangers...specifically the type of people Jesus warned his followers about.

I'm a semi-agnostic pantheist, but I respect the teachings of Christ a lot more than I believe the Dominionists do. As Thomas Jefferson said--'Christ was perhaps the greatest moral philosopher in history'(I'm paraphrasing, I think) and his words deserve a hell of a lot more respect than they're getting from the Religious Right.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. i would like to see the non-rw christians make a stand
against the non-christianity of the righties but you know the msm won't cover it so no one will hear them . . . except, maybe, their congregations.

ellen fl
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. :-) ..this morning I read a "Most Emailed" NYT Editorial...
Along similar lines (dated June 17th) titled "Onward, Moderate Christian Soldiers (subscription). It was written by a name that rang a bell from long ago, John Danforth, a retired Republican Senator and now Episcopal Minister. Although I've seen the rumblings here on DU this increased my sense of hope that perhaps the liberal and moderate Christians and the real "GOP" that I was taught about by my father (who, I was a bit surprised and happy to learn, voted against BushCo and is mighty PO'd I might add) are getting their voice back.

Here are a few excerpts from Rev. Danforth's editorial:
<snip>
IT would be an oversimplification to say that America's culture wars are now between people of faith and nonbelievers. People of faith are not of one mind, whether on specific issues like stem cell research and government intervention in the case of Terri Schiavo, or the more general issue of how religion relates to politics. In recent years, conservative Christians have presented themselves as representing the one authentic Christian perspective on politics. With due respect for our conservative friends, equally devout Christians come to very different conclusions.

<snip>
But for us, the only absolute standard of behavior is the commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves. Repeatedly in the Gospels, we find that the Love Commandment takes precedence when it conflicts with laws. We struggle to follow that commandment as we face the realities of everyday living, and we do not agree that our responsibility to live as Christians can be codified by legislators.

<snip>
For us, living the Love Commandment may be at odds with efforts to encapsulate Christianity in a political agenda. We strongly support the separation of church and state, both because that principle is essential to holding together a diverse country, and because the policies of the state always fall short of the demands of faith. Aware that even our most passionate ventures into politics are efforts to carry the treasure of religion in the earthen vessel of government, we proceed in a spirit of humility lacking in our conservative colleagues.

<snippty snip>
For us, religion should be inclusive, and it should seek to bridge the differences that separate people. We do not exclude from worship those whose opinions differ from ours. Following a Lord who sat at the table with tax collectors and sinners, we welcome to the Lord's table all who would come. Following a Lord who cited love of God and love of neighbor as encompassing all the commandments, we reject a political agenda that displaces that love. Christians who hold these convictions ought to add their clear voice of moderation to the debate on religion in politics.

~*~
disclaimer: I was brought up as a Christian by loving Christian parents, was very active in Christian youth groups as a pre-teen and teen, used to know the Bible rather well (especially the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament) and even taught Sunday School many many years ago. At one point as a teen I even seriously considered becoming a Methodist or UU Minister even. I also was briefly married to a Fundimentalist Pentacostal type christian many years ago who turned out to be a very troubled soul and emotionally very abusive (which was actually encouraged by the Fundie Minister). Needless to say that marriage didn't last long once I saw the pattern. However I learned from it and it made me spend a lot more time meditating on what I truly believed on a spiritual level. Because of this and over time I have evolved into what some (except perhaps some UUers) will consider an odd eclectic mix gleaned from many spiritual paths, some of which are still from the teachings of the person called Jesus. :)
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks for the reply, I'll check it out
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Funny, the verse you picked as an example of a "loving and inclusive God"
doesn't sound loving and inclusive at all.

John 3:16 "Believe in me or you will be punished."
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johnnomac Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. What translation is that??
Umm... you may need to re-read that verse. I know it's not the most inclusive verse in the Bible, but it definitely doesn't say "Believe in me or you will be punished." That would be somewhere in Deuteronomy.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Of course it doesn't literally say that.
But that's the meaning. Whosoever believes in me shall NOT perish, but have eternal life. That, coupled with other supposed quotes from Jesus that point to the existence of hell for his enemies, translates into what I wrote.
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GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
14. I just recommended this for the greatest page!
You hit the nail right on the head, Wetzelbill! :thumbsup:
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