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recovering democrat Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 07:05 PM
Original message
Need help and advise re offensive writing
I need some good DU advise. This is a copy/paste from an email message I received (kinda long, sorry!) which I find offensive. It is intended to be "patriotic" but to me it is just "anti-Muslim" propaganda. I am particularly concerned because of where I got this message and do not want to just erase it and ignore the content. Just what exactly are we "uniting" about? If this should be in a different forum,let me know; if anyone has seen this and knows its source directly, I would like to learn from whence it originally came. Any other opinions, or comments will be appreciated.

"Pay Attention!

Whether Republican, Democrat, Libertarian or 'neutral,' I would highly recommend you read all of this message. I am sending it to you just as I received it without further comment. The following was written by someone unknown to me. Whoever forwarded
it, cut out the sender's (author's?) name -- unfortunate for not getting credit for the insights. I think you'll agree, after reading it, the author could --maybe should -- be a major contributor to our Foreign Policy thinking

Please read it. You may not agree with the conclusions drawn, but the
premise is too real.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII! ).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.
First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11th, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Kh! obar Towers Military complex 1996;
Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 19 98;
Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
Pentagon 2001.
(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist
attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocation's by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).(see <http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm>http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm ).

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the 6 million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German,Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else.The point here ! is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of ua "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that! so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business,like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead,not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a! time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it
too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is,defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose,and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided,there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the
life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men
between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow
profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean,lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying.

We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police.
These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense.

If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome! burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife.

Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into all non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all
those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the World will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the
Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves,over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some
external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown,worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even
to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then
start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "Peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united,there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it. After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world.

Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too.

There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!"

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. frankly,
the person who sent you this is so deluded that I don't think anything you could say could change his mind.

I used to volunteer at a Senior Center. One old lady had a lot of trouble, and I went out of my way to help her with her computer problems, even to the extent of getting my husband to go with me to her home (20 miles away) to fix her computer. I felt she would be interested in doing the Dances of Universal Peace (honoring all spiritual traditions through simple circle dances). When she found out I was Sufi (she knew about the Dances, which are also called Sufi Dances), she told me I had NO RIGHT to VOTE or to BREED.

This was someone who knew me. Who I had helped.

Her hatred was so vehement I had to resign my volunteer position so I wouldn't have to see and listen to her.

If I'd been a good rw "Christian", I'm sure she would have still been buddy buddy with me.

That's why I don't think writing a reply would be worthwhile. Throw this piece of garbage away.
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recovering democrat Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Why I need to identify it
I guess my wording wasn't clear enough - I am not replying to the author of this garbage -

The way this was sent to me is my problem. It came from someone to whom I need to address how much of a problem this kind of garbage does, especially when it has been circulated, by that person, very widely. The emailer believes we need to be aware of this persepctive. Your comment is identical to how I reply "throw this garbage away".

I just have a feeling someone on DU may be able to identify who wrote this (or from what organization they might represent) and that will help me deal with it better.
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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. The author is dilusional.
Hitler may have stood in front of churches when a camera was present, much like our current pResident, but that doesn't make him a Christian.

People who claim the faith of Muslim may have carried out the bombings, but that doesn't mean they acted within the Muslim faith.


I'll leave it to a DUer brighter than me to comment on what you should do exactly.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Somebody had a great response to this a few weeks ago
It switched the "muslim" offendors for christian white men like Terry McVey and Ted the Unibomber...

Somebody with search could look it up for you.
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recovering democrat Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. thanks,
I will see what I can find.
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Desert Liberal Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Anti-Muslim and just plain wrong.
The author begins with a faulty premise: "Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms," and just continues to go downhill. Envy of freedoms has nothing at all to do with most terrorist attacks. Those attacks occurred because the U.S. has a long and sordid history of sticking our nose into Middle East affairs where it does not belong. Our foreign policy has caused more resentment in the Muslim world than any of our freedoms ever could.
The lack of understanding about Islam and the differences between extremists and true Muslims is obvious and sad. Not all Muslims follow the extreme ideologies of bin Laden and his ilk. In fact, very few do.
Every point in that horrible missive can be refuted by hard facts and logic. The author simply refuses to look critically at the role the U.S. is and has played for the last few decades.
Most of the world disagreed with Bush when he dragged us into this war and I can't imagine we would be more reviled if we withdrew our troops and let the Iraqis form their own government. Maybe the U.S. also needs to think about alternative energy sources so that we are not dependent on outside countries for our energy needs. Wouldn't that preclude most dealings (except diplomatically) with Muslim nations?
The Iraqis want the occupying forces out of their country. Can you really blame them? Thousands and thousands of human beings have died in this immoral and illegal war. More are dying every day. It's long past time to look beyond the 'we have to win because we have to win' argument and to find a real solution.
Hatred, fear and hypocrisy have never and will never provide any useful resolutions.
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johnnomac Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Islam is to terrorism as Christianity is to the KKK n/t
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. So all terrorists are Islamic?
Wow, I didn't realize that. :eyes:

Seriously, that's one of the most common, ignorant and bigoted remarks used by the reichwing.

Why would you post it here?
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johnnomac Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sorry!!!! mistyped
I knew that didn't quite sound right. It was supposed to be "Islam is to Islamic Terrorists as Christianity is to the KKK".

But the point is that blaming Islam for terrorism is like blaming the church for the KKK.... it is a different group entirely.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Whew!
You had me worried there.
I grok your meaning.
Both groups use their religion to justify their hatred.
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johnnomac Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. And....
Both groups are essentially disowned by most of their religion. It would be stupid to go into a local mosque and blame them for the actions of Al-Qaeda and Hamas, just as it would be stupid to go into a local United Church and blame them for the actions of the KKK.

Sorry about the confusion.... I heard that line on the West Wing, but it's been a while since I saw that one. I definitely didn't mean what it first looked like.
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