I gotta talk (rant) to someone who is religious

[erinlough]

I am a public school teacher. I was absent, due to school business, the substitute in my classroom was given the instructions to take the class (special education students) to the computer lab to work on typing a report. She leaves me a two page message berating the school for letting the students access questionable web sites. She relates that her children go to a Christian School and aren't allowed that access. She goes on to describe a Halloween costume site with slutty costumes and a site with filthy words.

The computer system does have filters but I understand that when you are dealing with 8th graders they may circumvent those filters. When I am there I keep a close eye from the back of the room and I make them leave any sites that may be questionable. She could have done the same. She totally blamed the school and me for introducing questionable material to students. She put her religious beliefs and experiences forward and assumed I did not have the same standards. She has never even met me.

Then I go to another class and the substitute for the person I team with is in the middle of a bible lesson on what the fish pin he has on his tie represents, including telling the bible story of Jesus with the 5 loaves and fishes. He continues on while I am standing there quite uncomfortable. Luckily, my principal walked in to talk to me about a student and heard it. I have Jewish students in that room and people whose belief I know nothing about.

I am confused and concerned. Tell me the truth, is there some conspiracy going on to indoctrinate students to your own religious beliefs? Why are they coming to public schools to sub if they hate us so much. And why me? There are tons of fundie teachers in my school who would eat this up, why do I, an agnostic, get this stuff all the time? Leave me alone with your religiosity. I've been there and decided on something else.

I'm done with my rant, sorry if it was long.

[shoelace414]

1. christians are a persecuted minority in this country

didn't you get the memo?
:sarcasm:

[erinlough]

3. The pic in your sig

what was the name of that show? It was Canadian and great.

[shoelace414]

4. you can't do that on television

http://www.ycdtotv.com/

[erinlough]

11. Very smart kids show! Loved it. n/t

[beyurslf]

2. Why are they doing this? My guess is that they finally realized the gay

recruitment programs of the past 40 years had been so successful they had to emulate them. :) <sarcasm off>

I am glad the principal walked in to hear it too. That way you are not alone in hearing it and something can be done.

[erinlough]

7. I wish that was true

although he is a great principal he will still hire him because substitutes are few and hard to come by.

By the way if anyone is out of work, Public schools in most areas will hire anyone with 2 years college in any area to sub. The pay is about 85.00 to 100.00 a day.

[Broken_Hero]

26. i wish i got paid that much.

i sub in sw missouri, 64 bucks a day, the only qualification is 60plus hours of college credits, i got 94, and the work isn't that current either...sorry you had to go through that, but i have some things for you also.

My first time subbing the school district actually believes in corporeal punishment, still...that blew me away, and they all do the pledge of allegience which also blew me away, i havent' been spanked or done the pledge since like the 6th grade, its just weird. If that same thing happened in my school district, i fear the principal and parents would actually promote more christian themed things, instead of stopping it...but SW Missouri isn't that far ahead of the bar so to speak, as a matter of fact, i think they are about 8 yrs behind everyone else...

[SaveElmer]

5. You didn;t say what state you were from...

But no matter really...anything like this should be reported to the principal. Subs who do this should not be allowed to teach there again...plain and simple.

The reason I asked what state you were from is that alot of school boards around the couyntry are being taken over by fundies. School Board elections are not high priority for most people so it is easy for these people to get elected. If this were the case where you lived the school board may not be sympathetic.

[erinlough]

10. Michigan, the west side

lots of fundies on boards around here.

[Stang8az28]

32. Another westsider.....Hell yes

its hard to find like minded people around here. whereabouts ya at?
im in wyoming but soon will be near hastings.

dan

[YouthInAsia]

6. school boars have been LOADED UP with those wacks here in Pa.

They think if they can get on the school board, they can change the rules.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. As a VERY serious Christian, and a professional ranter here on DU,

even I can't find the string of expletives necessary to adequately describe these assholes, their utterly unfaithful reading of Scripture, their entirely immoral and unethical attitude toward other people...

The whole rightwing of Christendom makes me sick to my stomach AND fills me with rage, for the way they are abusing the message of Jesus.

They are no different, and in many ways even worse, than the Pharisees against which Jesus ranted.

And yes, there IS a conspiracy - it's been going on since Reagan, with the Moral Majority (which is neither moral, and never was a majority) and The Christian Coalition (which is not Christian, but has managed to be a powerful coalition) intentionally nationwide trying to fill school boards with their loonie asshole evil fucks in order to enforce their false brand of corporate-shilling freedom-hating Christianity on America. And until these fuckers stop getting air time and posititons of leadership, America will never come out from under the stone of ignorance and oppression that those fucks want us under.

[erinlough]

15. Love your rantingness

new word I know. My first response is I want to go to your church. But, seriously this is why I call myself an agnostic, it really isn't that I'm such an agnostic,I just hate organized religion of all kinds. I was really involved in it and just couldn't stay in it anymore because of this stuff.

[castiron]

16. That was awe-inspiring

and just packs a harder wallop coming from an actual Christian. Not the same authoritativeness from someone like me, just another agnostic.

[thinkingwoman]

29. seriously

great post!!! :toast:

[Rabrrrrrr]

30. Thanks to all three of you!

:hi:

[kestrel91316]

31. (my kind of Christian .................... GREAT rant)

[Zen Democrat]

9. I would contact the parents of the Jewish children.

And I would ask them if their children were offended. The parents may not even know about this. And, they may want to speak to the school administration about this sub.

As for the one who left you the note. I'd write her something regarding supervision and what her duties should be in the classroom or computer lab.

[castiron]

12. I would say, yes, there is a conspiracy.

But it is out in the open and getting bolder all the time. I have a Buddhist friend who works as the only white teacher in an all black Baptist school in the Bible belt. She has really thick skin! You probably have thick skin, too, but it must just be really hard.

[Marymarg]

13. Nutty substitutes

I am a retired (special education) teacher. I was always concerned about my students when I had to be out and they had a substitute. Luckily, I had the most wonderful teacher aides in the world who would tell me what happened while I was away.

If I had a substitute like the one you describe, I would request that she not be used for my class. I do not know if you are able to do this or not but that person was waaaay out of line and should not be allowed in public school --AT ALL! Depending on the politics of the situation, I would suggest you do all you can to get rid of her, even if it only to make sure that your students do not have to endure her again.

Good luck. Do not be defensive. She is a religious nut and if she feels compelled to inject religion into the classroom, she should limit herself to religious schools and stay the heck out of public schools.

[erinlough]

20. Because of the nature of Special Kids

I rarely take off for anything. I already told the principal I did not want her back. I also talked to the kids about what went on and turned it into a life lesson. My students are really great so I was surprised she had any trouble at all. Thanks for your kind advice.

[Lifelong Protester]

14. I am a public school administrator

and fairly religious. My reply to the sub blaming YOU for bringing questionable sites to kids is that the Internet is NOT edited, and it is one of the biggest repositories of online Bibles (you can read about any of the big holy books online, doncha know). Like the real world there is good stuff and bad stuff. Even a kid who is not trying to find something questionable is probably going to run up against stuff they don't want. I've had some experiences like that at school with our up to date 'net nanny' fully functioning.

If she is so damn holy and such a Bible scholar, doesn't she realize that we are tempted always and need to practice restraint? Just like running into 'the near occasion of sin' in the real world, don't kids need to practice dealing with and discarding stuff that is 'harmful'? It is the old argument from the religious right that if you TALK about sex in sex education, kids will all of a sudden HAVE SEX!! Well, hmmmm, did your read about Adam and Eve having Sex Ed. classes in the garden of Eden? Was the snake wielding a Sex 101 textbook or an apple??

[Lifelong Protester]

19. Oh, and another thing....

As a principal I would be having a short, terse chat with the sub. Her opinions on religion, politics, or anything else are NOT PART OF THE JOB.
And I would not have her or him or whatever back unless he or she saw the error of their ways.
I'd put two classes together, take the class myself, do whatever to NOT have anyone that ignorant of what a teacher's role is in my school.

Rant on!

[valerief]

17. Bring in some Muslims to preach the Koran

And a Buddhist another day. And a Hindi another day. And whatever Native Americans believe. Etc., etc.

Then ask the kids for their opinion on them all.

Dilute the fundie's power.

[erinlough]

23. When the one sub was talking about his fish pin

I did have the urge to talk about the symbolism of the statue of Shiva, or Budda, or Kokopeli.....

Seriously, I wish we could talk about a variety of religions but our fundies would never stop complaining if we did.

[TechBear_Seattle]

28. I think it would have been entirely appropriate....

To have continued the discussion about how the fish was also a symbol of the Phonecian god, Dagon, and that followers of Dagon identified one another with a very similar symbol used by many Christians. It was also the representation of the Celtic god of wisdom, Nechtain, who appears as the Salmon of Wisdom in many English folktales, presenting a nice segue to the Fisher King (himself a representation of Nechtain) and the Arthurian legends.

If the fundie sub didn't like it, he has only himself to blame. After all, HE started the discussion.

[woodsprite]

18. My daughter goes to a charter school

and she told me that one girl in her class will be arrested if she goes near this other student (male). Apparently the boy is muslim or hindu (our daughter wasn't sure), but he is very nasty and makes hateful comments to the girl, who is jewish. After quite a few incidents of this, the girl called him a Nazi. Not quite appropriate, but when they're in 7th grade, it probably made sense to her. Anyway, they gave her a demerit because she called him a Nazi. He didn't get punished. Someone said that the girl said she would kill him if he teased her again and THAT's why she'll be arrested if she goes near him.

Thank goodness neither of these kids has any class with our daughter this year. She knows them from past years and travels on the bus with them. Truthfully, if he's muslim or if his parents donated money to get the school up and running, the school board is probably afraid to reprimand him. He did not get so much as a demerit or sent to the principal. She got three - made a threat to another student, called a student a name, and I forget what the 3rd one was.

[SheilaT]

25. You should give

serious thought to removing your daughter from this charter school. The information you've given is somewhat confusing, but it sounds like something is seriously wrong. No student should be allowed to make hateful and nasty comments about another student, most especially if they are religiously motivated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a charter school is still a public school, even though it's exempt from various constraints on normal public schools. But (again, correct me if I'm wrong) those constraints have to do with testing and the hiring of teachers and the curriculum but still don't permit one student to behave hatefully toward another.

If you want to leave your daughter in this school, you should have an in-dept conversation with the principal. If the abusive student is allowed to get away with treating one kid badly, he'll go on to treat others equally badly.

Basically, this comes down to the whole bullying issue. My personal take is that if the behavior would not be considered acceptable in the workplace, why should it be okay in school?

[woodsprite]

27. I have an email into the principal requesting either a call or a meeting.

They are usually very good about taking care of any issues that crop up AND kick the troublemakers out. That's what makes me think something else is up with this. Maybe our daughter doesn't know the whole story, OR like I said, maybe this is one of the "founding" members and they're making an 'exception'. Something doesn't mesh though. The charter school is MUCH better than the public school for these grades. I really like the principal - the vice principal seems like a real a$$ though and I believe he's the one who is the first one to make disciplinary decisions. Parents call him "Smiley".

[neuvocat]

21. To give this a biblical slant:

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render that which is the Lord's unto the Lord. This person is acting improperly by prosletyzing (sp?) on the job so openly. If he has concerns about how lax things are at the computer labs for example, then they must be brought to his superior. That is the christian thing to do.

Also, it is inappropriate to brag about how one's children are in a private school. Would that person like to have you notify his school that he or she is openly showing contempt for his or her employer while putting his or her children on a pedestal?

[PurgedVoter]

22. You Called so I am Speaking as a Conservative Christian,

And as a Conservative Christian, my reading of the Gospel has made me a liberal. No one who claims to be Christian and is conservative politically or socially has read the words of Jesus with a clear mind.

This happens all the time in schools and it is truly offensive. Even when the teacher is not pushing their view of the divine, they are marginalizing and making fun of Buddhisms, Shinto, Islam and the like. I find this quite offensive. Faith is not something that should be hammered or pushed. I believe that it takes a clear mind to follow Christ.
Why is it that Agnostics so often follow the teachings of Christ much better than Christians do? I think it is because they have a clear enough mind to admit that they have uncertainty.

The real problem here is that while this substitute is broken, it may endanger you to complain. I suspect however that if you feel out the person that approves substitutes, they may be able to realize that this substitute is a danger to the school district. They are probably going back to their Cool-Aid drinking rabid no-name church and talking up a storm about school. I would advise that a school should be very slow to use a home-schooler parent as a substitute. Conflict of interest and all.

[erinlough]

24. thank you for your thoughtful post

Thanks also for putting into words what has happened to me. I sat in a church and asked myself if I believed in what was being said and the answer in most cases was no. So I left with what I believed in and I relaxed in my search by myself. I am much happier.

[carl_pwccaman]

33. Conspiracy, yes, in some school districts...

Certain right-wing Christians have in fact targeted local governments, especially school boards, and are purposefully infiltrating however they can in PTA's, board meetings, as substitute teachers, to do their work 'for the lord' against the 'godless schools' etc.

The types who do this come in many varieties, from Dominionists and Kingdom Now, to certain Cell Churches, ranging from Pentecostal and Charismatics to Baptist to Independent Bible churches/Fundamentalists.

This article goes into considerable detail as to the types of movements some of these folkes are in:
http://pwccaman.tripod.com/articles/RelDomIndex.html