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Sub Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:25 PM
Original message
Lumping Christians Together: An Analogy
I keep reading how all of you poor, poor Christians are being lumped together with the evangelicals.

You poor dears. Don't like the taste of persecution, do you?


Now you know what it's like for gay men to be lumped together with those who decide that public sex/debauchery is acceptable.

The Christians have used the broadest brush possible to paint all gays as perverts. Now that the bristles are facing the other way, the indignance begins.

What was that saying from the bible? He who is without sin should cast the first stone? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Well, we're doing unto you as you have done to others. Don't like it? Too bad. You are the ones who started all of this.


Consequences are a bitch, aren't they?
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not
when they're created by dumbos.
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's rough when you're persecuted and in power
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. LoZoccolo...
... so you only had minor contempt for Dweeb prior to this message? And now your contempt is greater? Nice. Real nice.

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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. I don't think I said that.
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 02:48 AM by LoZoccolo
But now I can't even check because what I thought was a perfectly rules-compliant message has now been deleted. Of course, someone else gets to say "fuck you" to the rest of us who are just trying to be good liberals and it's OK.

Gee, I wonder what could have made someone so mad.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. P.S. you are ultimately attacking other DUers...
...who were on your side, until you posted this. Congratulations. I hope you spooged the biggest load of your entire life here with this masturbatory drooling thread of yours.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. child, stop.
If you're trolling around looking for an excuse to jump someone's ass without first attempting to be constructive, go to freeperville and let off some steam, then come back.

As you pointed out, we're all in this together. We have all made hyperbolic statements in the heat of the moment.

Judge the performance, not the performer.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I am being constructive.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 01:39 PM by LoZoccolo
I think I said quite a bit. This thread does nothing to advance the cause (actually, works against it), and everything to nurse his emotional issues. It is, as I said, masturbatory. I stand by my original reply.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. you did say something
but you're being combative.

People say stupid shit. I have before and I'll do it again. I hope Dweeb makes a statement. I understand Dweeb's anger; just want to aim it in the right direction.

I am absolutely certain that a dialogue is more warranted than a fight.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Of course I'm being combative.
I don't deny that, and I don't apologize for it. I do not beg people who confront people like that to believe me because they've already attempted to take the step of letting us know that they will ignore civil rhetoric. The tactics they employ are an attempt to intimidate the people that would normally reason with them into not doing so.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. What?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. See link below.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oy, lumping all christians in with evangelical nutjobs...
is as intellectually valid as lumping all muslims in with terrorists.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. I am a rabid atheist BUT
it's still wrong to "lump" them together. Not all people of faith are literalists, and many people of faith are very fair minded and informed and not at all as you describe.

Attacking them like that, even if it is hyperbolic and merely to make a point, is kind of like the "two wrongs don't make a right" problem.

You are angry at fundamentalists, and at uninformed people who don't take the time to evaluate their stereotypes and prejudices, yet act on them all the same. Those are the people we need to be raking over the coals.



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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is simply hateful crap
Now you know what it's like for gay men to be lumped together with those who decide that public sex/debauchery is acceptable.

Had you been paying attention you would have noticed that the LIBERAL Christians, the ones that you are intentionally lumping together with schizophrenic idiots, are not the ones who have been persecuting gays.
I refuse to take responsibility for starting gay-bashing, or taking part in it. I don't do it. So don't pin your hatred on me.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. amen and well said
n/t
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hmmmm...ten minutes later and no responses.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 01:36 PM by LoZoccolo
Interesting. Someone doesn't want to stand behind their own bullshit.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. The public backlash based on bringing one's own philosophy of life
is just getting rolling. I'm asking these folks a LOT of questions. They can't object because THEY brought this issue into the public domain. Don't like it - TOO BAD!!
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. Lumping Muslims Together: An Analogy
I keep reading how all of you poor, poor Muslims are being lumped together with the terrorists.

You poor dears. Don't like the taste of persecution, do you?


Now you know what it's like for Americans to be lumped together with those who decide that conquest/imperialism is acceptable.

The Muslims have used the broadest brush possible to paint all Americans as persecutors. Now that the bristles are facing the other way, the indignance begins.

What was that saying from the Quran? He who is without sin should cast the first stone? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Well, we're doing unto you as you have done to others. Don't like it? Too bad. You are the ones who started all of this.


Consequences are a bitch, aren't they?



NOTE: Sarcasm and parody.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. look
i, a christian, have been working my ASS off for GLBT rights in the ACLU and HRC. Thanks so much for appreciating my help :eyes:


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. dweeb take it back!
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 01:53 PM by sui generis
You can do it. It's allowed. Especially since some assholes on this post are professionally pissed off and sarcastic people.
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. What a hateful post. Why would you say such things? n/t
:shrug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. What A Juvenile Response, LoZoccolo.
Some folks have jobs. Some people sleep. Some of them study. Some people have real lives that extend beyond the Internet and DU.

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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. this is just so much crap . . .
there are millions and millions of Christians who support gay rights and have no connection whatsoever to evangelicals or fundamentalists . . . your analogy is a false one, and totally unfair to a lot of good people . . . think about re-thinking . . .
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Too Bad THOSE Liberal Christians Aren't The Loudest Ones...
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 02:39 PM by arwalden
you know? Pity that their message isn't heard at all.

If such messages from liberal Christians were prevalent, I'm sure that people would be less frustrated and less emotional like our friend Dweeb is.

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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. That's true. But we're trying n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Well, what you don't get is that we are trying to take it back
What you also don't get is that no one really understood exactly how far gone the fundamentalists were until recently, probably even you.
We are on the same side. And the reason we are, is that our principles are the same. You want to hate the people that are bigots, go right ahead. But don't try to tell me I am one because I am not you. Hating people because of a group, even though you know that the reasons you hate them for are invalid, isn't right regardless of who does it.
I'm not asking for Christianity to be held in high esteem. I'm asking you not to be the bigot that your enemies are.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. It is NOT THAT SIMPLE
people keep telling me, "c'mon, reclaim you faith". well guess what. its a lot more complicated than that. we are dealing with people who rabidly and fully believe their twisted version of christianity. its not a matter of walking up to them, slapping them, and saying "snap out of it". honestly, the only way to change things is to get to the young people, make them understand how horrible all their hate is. I AM working hard, with Soujourners, and my church itself, to bring Jesus' teachings back to the head of mainstream Christianity. But it will take an incredibly long time to do so. In the meantime, i have been fighting hard for GLBT rights, even if quite a few of my fellow christians see me as evil for doing so. I am not just a christian. i am a liberal democrat, a member of the ACLU and Amnesty International, and i just happen to be a member of the lutheran church. Being descriminated against does not justify descriminating against others


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Are you lumping all of us together for all time, or just for right now?
What I mean is, are you angry at Christians just not in the 21st century, or others too? What about the 20th century?

The anger you have is understandable, but it isn't logical. I guess you know that Jimmy Carter is a Christian, right? Are you saying that he is the same as the radical Christian Right? As I recall, he left the Southern Baptist Church because he was against their narrow-minded bigotry. Are you really saying there's no difference between him and Robertson/Falwell/Dobson?

What about Martin Luther King, Jr.? How does he fit in with the fundamentalists of today? During his day, there were lots of Klan members who were also regular church members. Are you saying that King, those members of his church and other throughout the South who practiced non-violent resistance (as Jesus advocated) and the churchgoing Klan members were the same - all bigoted?

Do you hear the irrationality of what you've been saying?

I'm sorry for the pain that you have been through because of religious bigotry, I really am. And I refuse to lash back out at you because you've made some outlandishly sweeping and hyperbolic statements. Just because you appear to be attacking some of us DUers, we don't have to turn around and attack you. But I hope you can chill out for long enough to realize that the hateful words you're aiming at some of us DUers here is not only misdirected, it brings you down to the same level as the religious right-wingers who take out their fear-filled hatred on homosexuals.

Peace/Shalom/Salaam to you, in any case, and take care.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Dweeb, are you a white male?
Aren't you glad that minorities and women don't go whole hog avenging the actions of other white males on you? Aren't you glad you don't get lumped in? Aren't you glad you weren't driving a milk truck through the L.A. riots?

Good. Act that way.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. This is a totally ridiculous and unfair analogy.
Yes, it's true that anti-gay right-wingers do this all the time. But nobody on Democratic Underground is lumping all gay men together with anyone.

Therefore, this is a ridiculous and unfair excuse for doing the same thing to Christians here on DU.

I'm locking this.
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