Just a question about separation of church and state...

[Karan]

I'm not trying to be flippant or anything like that. I'm just looking for a honest answer. Where in the constitution does it say anything about the separation of church and state?

[AllegroRondo]

1. The first amendment

and its later interpretation by the supreme court

[tk2kewl]

2. 1st amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

(edit to add amendment text)

[maxudargo]

3. The very first phrase of the First Amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Thomas Jefferson used the phrase "a wall of separation" to describe the principle, which is where "separation of church and state" comes from.

[AllegroRondo]

6. And by "establishment of religion"

the courts have determined that to mean that no public money, land, or assets, may be used for religious purposes, because by definition that "establishes" or promotes a religion.

[Sandpiper]

11. And the test for an unconstitutional "establishment of religion"

Is laid out in Lemon v. Kurtz, a 1971 Supreme Court case.

[hootinholler]

24. Yep and that plaque on the rim of the grand canyon...

Explainign how it was formed by drainage of the biblical flood is history, not religion.

-Hoot

[BlueEyedSon]

12. Yup, Jefferson

[Fiona]

4. You won't find those exact words

in the constitution, but the first amendment prohibits an "establishment of religion" by the congress. Later Supreme Court decisions applied the same standard to state and local governments.

Jefferson wrote in a letter about building a wall between church and state and that's where the common term comes from.

[Sandpiper]

5. The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment

Is where the legal basis for separation of church and state comes from.

[Karan]

7. I wasn't clear enough.

Where do the words "separation of church and state" come from?

[maxudargo]

10. I answered your question

From Thomas Jefferson's phrase "a wall of separation between church and state."

[Sandpiper]

13. Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists

Here's a link

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

[maxudargo]

15. Here's the exact wording from the letter

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should `make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

[Fiona]

16. answered at least three or four times

are you sincere? I only ask because the question is one I see asked repeatedly by non-Democrats.

[Slickriddles]

21. In modern Times

The words and the concept is from Justice Hugo Black's decision in Everson v Bd of Ed Ewing township 1947. Go to legal information institute on line and you have all the opinions. Jefferson in 1820 I think wrote to some Baptists in Danbury CT. and used the idea of a wall of separation.

[marc_the_dem]

8. here's a tidbit

United States Constitution, which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been. This is the true meaning of the phrase: "Separation of the Church from interference by the State." Now, all the different Christian denominations could worship God in their own way, and preach the Gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ wherever they wished.

[hootinholler]

25. It wasn't so bad for wiccans either. N/T

-Hoot

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. It is simply the name given to the principle that says

that Congress shall establish no state religion, shall not require a religious test for public office, and shall not prohibit freedom of religion. Since this is a long-winded thing to say, it is simply referred to as "separation of church and state."

The founders were reacting to the situation in Europe, where people were actually killed for not adhering to the official state religions. That's why in their own individual writings they referred to separation of church and state.

Ironically, it's in America, where state and religion are separate, that religions of all types flourish, and in Europe, where many countries have official religions, that religion is dwindling.

By the way, saying that "separation of church and state is not in the Constitution" is a pseudo-Christian (e.g. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye. etc.) talking point. You've probably been talking to someone who has been deceived by their un-Christian lies. (To anyone who knows either American history or church history, they are such obvious liars that it's a wonder their pants aren't constantly ablaze.)

Whenever you hear anything those guys say, fact-check it. If they say the sky is blue, look up and check it out before you believe it.

[rabid_nerd]

14. Basics

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/basicidx.htm

[ip568]

17. Nowhere

The First Amendment prohibits the state from establishing an official religion or from keeping anyone from practicing his religion. An argument can be made that prohibiting people from putting religious items in the town square violates the amendment.

[maxudargo]

18. This is interesting: An early draft of the establishment clause

I guess this was an early draft by James Madison:

"Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform."

Gives you a better idea where he was coming from. Found it on the link provided by rabid_nerd above.

[maxudargo]

19. More good stuff from Madison:

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity." (Letter to F.L. Schaeffer, Dec 3, 1821)

Again, from rabid_nerd's link.

[ktowntennesseedem]

20. The religious right love to point out...

that the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. Just one of the many ways they love to distort facts and history to fit their agendas and viewpoints.

May I recommend an excellent resource on this topic: "Why the Religious Right is Wrong about Separation of Church and State" written by Rob Boston, published by Americans United for Separation of Church and State (au.org)

[Slickriddles]

22. What they also Don't point out is that

There is absolutely NO mention of God or Christianity in the COnstitution. Religion is only mentioned twice both negatives -no religious tests - no establishment of religion. If this is a Christian Nation ( I'll be the first one to admit it in the sense of it being the majority religion) it has a mighty secular Supreme Law.

[Jackie97]

23. First amendment, and.....

I'm sure the others told you why the first amendment protects this concept. I'll go further on to talk about the fact that once the Supreme Court rules on certain matters, it's considered to be constitutional. There are court cases (not just O'Hair's, but others) that back up the belief that the first amendment is about separation of church and state.

This concept doesn't just protect atheists (who are just as worthy of being considered US citizens). It protects other reilgious minorities, including Christians who aren't of the same denomination as others. Check out the case in Poniac County, Mississippi on that. She was a Lutheran going up against a town of a different denomination for her family's rights.

Separation of church and state also protects the conservative Christians that are screaming to have it taken away. Islam is the fastest growing religion. What happens if it becomes the majority religion one day? This separation protects those Christians from having to submit to Islamic ideas. Right now, it protects churches from being taxed (although there are some arguments for why this is not fair, I think it has to do with the idea that it comes out of our pocket later). It protects Christian fundamentalists who don't want to live with the rest of society (like in Pennsylvania).

It protects Christians from having their rights infringed upon, period. It's not talked about much, but the ACLU has defended conservative Christians and their right to openly be who they are. If a Christian got told that they could not wear a WWJD T-shirt, then groups like the ACLU can fight for that cause.

There have been cases where the schools or whatever went too far and did violate a Christian's rights, but they don't coinside with church state separation and the court normally rules in their favor when it's challenged.