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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 01:36 PM
Original message
Well, *I* happen to think this is worth discussing...
Edited on Tue Sep-11-07 02:21 PM by Mythsaje ...

This is from Real Time with Cornell West and Mos Def.

Bill asks Mos Def "What, you don't believe there are people out there who want to hurt Americans?"

Says Mos: "Yeah, the Po-lice."

I'm not African American, but I can sympathize with what he's saying. I was a long-haired metal-head in the suburbs in my teens and on more than one occasion I was harassed and, yes, even threatened, by the police for simply going about my business. Perfectly legal business, much of the time. They didn't know me from Adam, yet, based on nothing but how I looked, they thought it worth their time to harass me.

The Police seem increasingly on-board with more and more authoritarian bullshit... Long gone is the neighborhood cop everyone knows--who has time to stop and chat with an ordinary citizen about the weather or the time of day. They're increasingly segregated from the communities they serve and are encouraged (if not trained) to see themselves as somehow separate from everyone else. To look at all of US as potential criminals and not the citizens they're supposed to "serve and protect."

This distrust and dislike of the police is nearly universal in black neighborhoods...often with good reason. But rather than doing anything positive to counter it, we simply hear them and their spokespeople griping about it. "People are against us."

No shit? Ever wonder why?

Probably not.

It's not necessarily the individual cops who are the problem, it's the whole CULTURE. Rather than step up to condemn corruption and bad acts by cops, they and their defenders will step in and DEFEND themselves as if THEY are personally being attacked. The good cops, and, yes, there are many, are powerless against the culture that doesn't condemn thugs and bullies but often supports their activities. It's not until the public is made aware of some of these behaviors that anything is done. That says volumes right there.

We're also seeing stepped up operations against protests and protesters. Recently in Canada, which has historically been more or less safe from some of these behaviors, protesters caught what had to be police agents trying to provoke a riot, or, at the least, create a plausible reason for the police to attack the protesters.

The Capitol Police recently arrested several protesters on the scene at the Patreus hearings. They were none too gentle. There is NO cause to do physical harm to peaceful protesters. The only possible explanation is that they wanted to "send a message."

Even IF the protesters were breaking a law (the Constitutionality of such a law notwithstanding), they are not common criminals by any measure and should be afforded the respect any citizen should be given. They are not threatening anyone with bodily harm, engaged in theft or robbery, or even selling drugs on the street-corner. No, they are merely exercising their right to "address their grievances" before the government.

I've long criticized the militarization of the police with regards to the War On Drugs, and I see this latest development, as protests against this administration and the war heat up, as indicative of a greater problem in the long run. The fact is that they seem to, in general, have little but contempt for all civilians, particularly ones who dare to stand up to authority.

The Drug War, despite the large scale support it garnered from much of the population, set a dangerous precedent for the elimination of Constitutional protections. The War on Terror simply extended many of these activities and gave them a broader base of support. The Drug War was like a test run to see how much we would tolerate. And we tolerated FAR too much for far too long. And now it's too late to object to THAT. Things have gotten worse. Much worse.

It's not even as though the protesters were spitting on them or calling them "pigs."

How did we let it get this bad?

I find it telling that the police almost universally oppose any kind of citizen oversight group--saying there's "no way civilians can understand what it's like."

With that attitude, we have to wonder if the opposite is ALSO true. If it's US and THEM, who's in the right?

A question worth asking. Hard to say if it'll ever get an answer.

Even here, apparently.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 01:39 PM
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1. Right now the police are being indoctrinated with the theory
Edited on Tue Sep-11-07 01:40 PM by truedelphi
That protesters are the biggest internal threat to USA's national security.

The protesters are one and the same as the terrorists.

The CIA has long held sway over the local police jurisdictions in larger cities. They had to back away fromt hat in the seventies and the eighties, but now on account of 9-11 and HOmeland Security, they have once again infiltrated the local police orgs.

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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The drug war aided and abetted this crap...
Set the stage for precisely what we're seeing now.

Americans can be SO short-sighted.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. tin soldiers and Nixon coming...
How did we let it get this bad? Cops have gotten their jollies by terrorizing black people for as far back as I go. Family members that are retired policemen tell 'humorous' holding on to someone's ankles and hanging them over a bridge to get information on the neighborhood dope dealer. This was in the 70's in a small town in New York state, very much still a segregated community. The police lie in wait to bust somebody.....fortunately for me.. when I got caught say driving drunk I was given a ride home. Different strokes for different folks.
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Raincloud_2008 Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. American founding fathers promoted as terrorists?
hi all
the details are sketchy but i probably saw this in one of alex Jones docus "Road to Tyranny" . I also apologise if it has been mentioned before. A lot of posts here so there is a good chance it has.
On the google vid that i watched, it showed a police training class and they were pointing at the men who founded your country's constitution.
They were calling your founding fathers, terrorists! Not in the sense that maybe they were "terrorists against unpopular British taxation and control (good type terrorists or freedom fighters)" but terrorists in the same sense that we "might" think when we hear about David Koresh or Ruby Ridge. I use the term "might" because i personally do not think either of the incidents with Waco or Ruby Ridge involved home grown or foreign terrorists. I did though at one time think that david koresh got what he deserved and then after 911 i learnt more about how things happen...especially when we are told to ignore the man behind the curtain.
So if you are with me still...this begs the question at least to my way of thinking...what chance has your every day joe blow from idaho have when the cops are being taught that everything you all grew up believing is wrong? Remember your average police officer rookie is a young guy or girl usually the same age or a little older than soldiers *equally malable*
Also while not all police officer enlist to be toughies...some do...a lot do. It is seen by most regular people as an elite employment and those employed as police officers also see it as being elite. If police officers are being trained to think of average citizens as being the bad guys...patriots are the bad guys, 911 truth searchers are the bad guys...then it seems to me that we are in a whole world of trouble.
Thanks for listening
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