entitled to religious beliefs

[lyrical di]

I am a Christian and a Democrat. To many people on this board, you can't be both. There is so much Christian-bashing, so I know I put myself at risk anytime a religious question arises. I think there are many other Christians in DU, but they seem to be very afraid.

I maintain it is important to talk to other Christians and refute many of their ridiculous "religious right" extremisms. You have to know where they are coming from so I sometimes visit other churches.

With all that said, I had a very disquieting experience today. I grew up Methodist, played piano for a Presbyterian church for a year, and have been raising my kids in my husband's church - the Episcopal church. He is now a Buddhist. My 4 teens have been unhappy there so we decided to "shop around" for a new church. Since my teens have gone to other churches with their friends when they stay overnight, I went with my oldest to one he liked. It was Baptist. Early in my marriage, my husband and I had agreed not to go to a Baptist church because they frightened the boys by telling them they'd be going to hell frequently and didn't help when two stepsons and hubby were diagnosed with a mental illness.

THe Baptist church I attended today had a lovely church service. I did look around and wonder if all the non-white parishioners came to the late service. The Sunday School class was entirely different. The topic was sexual morals and being pure. Yes, you can imagine the comments people threw out.... anti-women's lib, anti-liberals, anti-abortion, anti-teen pregnancy. One statement they made revolved around the fact that they believe Christians are the minority. There was some tremendous vocalization against that, but of the opinion that Christians were the majority, but that our government catered to the minority. A few people went on about the minority voices messing up all of our lovely society.

SO.... as I cross this very nice group of people off my list...

excuse me... sorry for the interruption but they just sent 3 very nice young men to visit our sons in the middle of my typing this....

where can we go to find a group of Christians that actually practice the message of love and tolerance that Jesus preached? Which church does NOT cast stones?

Sorry for being such a long post, but past experience has shown I will receive hate responses if I don't state things clearly.

Edited to clearly show interruption in middle of posting.

[bloom]

1. I think you might find the discussion you are interested in

in the non-political religion and theology section.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=214

[Nimrod]

2. My honest answer

Find your own peace with God. Strike your own deal with him. Decide what is important to you - what you consider to be worthy values. Then seek out those people who share those values, be they Christian, Baptist, Agnostic, or Satanist. You've already done more work in this regard than many others, you have a nice head start.

Always remember that a church is a building. It is constructed of wood and plaster and stone. It needs you in order to remain a church. You don't need it to worship.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. I suggest you find your local UU congegration.

Now, there's some who say they aren't real christians, but then, those are the types you want to avoid anyway.

I've never met a UU member who wasn't at least middlin' liberal.

Most of my family go to UU, and even I have gone occassionally, and I'm an atheist.

[dddem]

4. I am a catholic

who is feeling the same as you. I looked into United Church of Christ after I read somewhere that the networks wouldn't run their ads. The message was one of inclusion, and they portrayed gays (among others) as being not welcomed elsewhere, but welcomed to UCC. I liked what I heard. As a Christian, I always believed (not always in conjunction with my catholic upbringing) that Jesus wanted us to love one another, respect each other, and understands that we are all of God, and that God resides in each of us. This is not what I'm hearing "Christians" talk about. I hope (and believe) that most of us who follow Christ's teachings do not support the beliefs that the media is crediting us with. I pray that someday I'll be proud to call myself an American again. And a Christian. Good luck with your search. And if it helps, I advise my children that if you ever have to choose between faith and religion, choose faith. Religion is man-made (after all, as I told my mother, God isn't catholic!).

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AutumnMist]

5. On Tolerance and Love

I was raised Catholic as a child and I researched and have worshiped within the Baptist church for six years. My youngest brother is gay, I have dealt with addiction and living in my car for shelter. I haven't had one person within my church judge that. Nor have they ever judged me for loving my brother or otherwise. My family (and the church)has been supportive of me and my brother as well. I think many people have one or two people who send them into a negative opinion about religion and who chooses to be a Christian. I know many churches can be terrible in terms of public opinion about our society. I haven't been a part of that. I pray, others don't...and that's OK with me. I think Christians should be about loving all people (not just political sides). I don't think God set the message up to be about Kerry or Bush..or all the faults that we have as a whole (in terms of mankind). It's a much more positive encompassing message than that. Just my opinion.

[lyrical di]

7. a few do not make the whole

I do understand what you are saying. I did like the majority of the people I met. I am simply concerned about the intertwining in their church of their opinions of government. I hadn't heard so much anti-democrat comments since election day standing out with my signs.

[AutumnMist]

9. OK I will try this Again....:)

(I am having a hard time posting tonight for some reason)I hope I didn't seem like I was judging you or your's in terms of the experience that you have had. I hope you have a peaceful night and I hope that you and your family can find a place to comfortably worship together. :) Sorry if I was out of line.

[seaj11]

20. You do realize...

that wherever you go, there will be people who don't agree with you?

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Have you tried the Glendale Baptisit church...

on Glendale Lane in Nashville?

I don't know anything about it, but it is a partner congregation of the Baptist Peace Federation of North America, and so should not be at all anything like a typical Southern Baptist church.

It's listed here:

http://www.bpfna.org/partnercongregationsL.html

It's always up to the individual congregation, but there are major peace and justice movements in the Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal and Methodist churches-- keep looking, and there might be some down there. Episcopalians have incredible services, and the Presbyterians came up with the Stony Point Declaration, which puts them way up there politically.

Mennonites, Brethren, Quakers, UUs, and some others, if they are around there, might be more aligned with your politics, but not so much with your religious concerns.

[wildflower]

8. lyrical di, there are two DU groups here I think you'd like...

and would help answer your question:

Christian Liberals/Progressive People of Faith Group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=291

Seekers On Unique Paths Group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=292

-wildflower

[lyrical di]

11. this has been very helpful

All of your responses have been very helpful and restored my faith in DU. I especially liked the links. My hubby is often resentful of "Christian religion" so I needed a refuge.

[Maat]

23. Thank you, Wildflower!

There seems to be so many DUers asking this question!

And we have oodles and oodles of good information in the Liberal Christians Group (also Progressive members of faith) and the SOUPS DU Group (Seekers on Unique Paths).


This is my recommendation list (try a service or two of each):
1) United Church of Christ,
2) Unitarian-Universalist,
3) Church of Religious Science,
4) Unity,
4a) Quaker
5) Episcopalian, and
6) Metropolitan Community Churches.

Or, go to beliefnet.com, and take their beliefomatic test.

I've yet to find a person that can't be happy in one of those progressive faiths.

You don't have to choose between being a progressive and spirituality.

Lots of good links and information in the DU Groups referenced above.

Sometimes, between the Pagan Group, the Liberal Christians Group, the Seekers Group, the Catholic and Orthodox Group, and the Atheists/Agnostics Group, I think that we should form sort of Interfaith DU Alliance.

Thoughts?

[liberal43110]

10. I also recommend Unitarian Universalist (UU)

I was raised in Congregational and Presbyterian churches when I was growing up, but don't consider myself religious and hadn't been to church since going off to college 15 years ago. In fact, I aconsider myself agnostic/atheist. But I recently went to a UU church, and thought it was wonderful. More spiritual than strictly Christian, but a wonderful place.

--Nancy

[Jackie97]

12. Off the top of my head...

I think the United Methodist Church is known for being of a liberal nature. I really like the Friends (Quakers), and I don't think they believe in Hell. I'll look up other liberal denominations later when I have the time.

I just want to say that even though I'm an agnostic, I completely respect your right to practice whatever religion you want. This country is supposed to be about that freedom. It's mostly Religious Right nuts that bother me.

You might find that in more secular countries, they're not as hostile toward religion. I say this because I used to post on two atheist forums. One was from Oklahoma and one was from England. The one from England was much more friendly than the one from Oklahoma. I think that's because the atheists from Oklahoma are used to Religious Right threats of taking away freedoms and they're less tolerant of the religious as a result. England's done went through that phase for the most part. I think that one day, when the Religious Right is overturned for good, more liberals will be more tolerant of religious people; even fundamentalists. That's because the religious will no longer be a threat to the non-religious. That will be nice. I hope I get to live to see it, but I doubt I will.

I do think more liberals are probably more tolerant of religion than you might think. There might be a problem on DU, but I think most liberals actually do believe in God.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

13. Here in the UK

there's a group called the "Unitarian and free christians" or something similar who might be what you're looking for, although I believe some other christian groups refuse to recognise them as christians.

I don't know much about them, but they invite us to go and Morris dance in church on the Sunday before Plough Monday, so I'm in favour of them!

[trotsky]

14. I'm confused.

First you say: "I maintain it is important to talk to other Christians and refute many of their ridiculous 'religious right' extremisms."

And then you describe attenting a Baptist service and note that you had to "cross this very nice group of people off (your) list."

Which is it? Do you want to dialog with the religious right and help correct them, or do you only want to interface with fellow liberal Christians?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. Can't be both a christian and a democrat?

Nonsense! I've seen it done!

I think you probably can't be simultaneously be

a) a christian
b) in favour of gay rights or abortion
c) fully logically consistant

But most of my friends are both a) and b), and logical consistency is overated as a virtue compared to things like courage or compassion, which most christians liberals have in spades - certainly more on average than I do, and arguably as much or more as most liberal atheists.

[ArthurRuger]

16. Join the Rebel Alliance

JESUSONTHEFAMILY.ORG

In a world of escalating violence, war and greed, parents want to protect their children and keep their families strong.Learn how Jesus taught nonviolence and inspired spiritual growth, without forcing his faith on anyone.

The Christian Minority Coalition
Many Christians from conservative churches have publicly described the backlash they've had to endure from churchgoers and family members whenever they've dared to stand up for Jesus' teachings...particularly those that are inconvenient to certain political agendas.

For activist leaders of the radical religious right, the Bible isn't so much a spiritual guide as an ammunitions storehouse. Verses are handpicked from here and there (carefully ignoring those scriptures that might get in the way of their own "godly" image and political ambitions) to justify whatever they want to do.

And since there are commands in various parts of the Bible to do terrible things that Jesus never condoned--like stoning your rebellious children to death, or stoning gay people, or killing everyone in an enemy's village except the young virginal girls...well clearly, there's something for everyone, no matter how cruel, no matter how vile.

The sites described and linked above are precisely those kinds of Christian advocacies most needed for these times. These are the sites Mr. Dobson and Mr. Falwell should have built long ago - long before Americans would be required to vote based on real moral values.

Since such a high moral action was beyond messers Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, LaHaye, Land, and the many others of the same ilk. We are left do deal with them in their firmest and bloodiest mantle - the same mantle as the Pharisees of old.

I truly wish that I had been a part of the founding of Jesus On The Family and The Christian Minority Coalition.
- Arthur Ruger - Publisher, The American Choice.
&
News That Matters To The Media

[renaissanceguy]

17. Try the United Church of Christ.

They welcome everybody, and their doctrine seems to be what I would consider authentically Christian (concerned more about Jesus's teachings, not casting stones). The rightwingers have attacked them for *gasp* welcoming gay people and for their "controversial" commercial about welcoming everyone.

www.ucc.org

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/477698

[ArthurRuger]

18. “The True American Holy Christian Church”: Do we want this sort of New Chr

Katherine Yurica on Dominionism in The U.S.

I’ll quote the following from an email I received a month ago from a close relative who belongs to a fundamentalist church and who, although he is not entirely active in his church, still has strong feelings akin to what Yurica wrote as part of her introduction.

He wrote:“I support Bush for his stand on ALL the moral issues that are important to me. And that comes not from my membership in any church, but from the simple sense of decency and knowledge of what is right instilled in me by my parents. I will never support a democrat (or republican) who does not share those same views on moral issues....

It is obvious to me that the political arena is becoming more and more the battle ground between good and evil, and this election is no exception. The black and white issues that ARE good or evil are increasingly separating along party lines. I have no doubt that many who are on the side of evil honestly believe they are doing, saying, and feeling what is right. But that doesn’t make them right. We are indeed in the days where evil will be called good and good will be called evil.”

For years I’ve heard this sort of thing and have personally responded more or less in agreement since it seemed to confirm my own internal lament as to where our constantly declining public morality was leading us. I took it seriously on that particular level but never considered on a more external level that taking over the government is a Christian option as something viable or consistent with the teachings of Jesus and Paul.

Honest people realize the implications of their own convictions. The logic of one’s convictions ought to be carefully considered because in the real world, the logical conclusions of those convictions, when pursued, may lead to a point of tragic absurdity and inconsistency with the original sources of those convictions.

Murder (killing an abortion doctor) as a consequence of convictions based on the teachings of the Son of God as expressed in the Bible then stands out as an extremely powerful justification for repudiating questionable convictions.

If one’s literal belief in an inerrant Bible leads to convictions that allow one to commit murder which is contrary to “Judge not that thou be not judged,” a logical absurdity is established:

At the Second Coming, are we to assume that the Son of God, who refused to stone the woman caught in adultery, would vindicate a man who murdered an abortion doctor? "Well done thou good and faithful servant?"

[Tux]

19. Sorry

I'm sorry to hear what happened. I was a Christian but now I am a Buddhist. I have noticed that people are quick to critize Christians just for being Christian on the Net. I live in KY but no one does that from what I know. Anyways, it is the fundamentalist Christians that are making the rest of Christians look bad though. I left Christianity when "Christians" decided I wasn't good enough (popular) to be a member. The more the extremeists push, the more people will push back. Both are causing what they fear most.

Just pray and I'm sure you'll find a church that is right for you.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LDS Jock]

22. I have this feeling of deja vu

It must be because I've seen this post five times now from you. Are you the author? Are you getting a kick back on sales? Did you join just to promote this book?

[davidinalameda]

24. you're doing the right thing

look around in your area

there are non-fundie Christian churches in some of the most unlikely places

UU may be good for you but not if you want a Christian church

[freedom man]

25. Beware of the Mormons

Hello, I read you post.

There are other big examples of religions claiming to be the majority. Beware of the false prophet in the LDS church as well.

My website is http://mormonconspiracy.com

My email is [e-mail]

[usregimechange]

27. It has likely already been suggested but UU is the way to go.

Unitarian Universalist. Find one near you.