Fighting Words For A Secular America

[wyldwolf]

Ashcroft & Friends
VS.
George Washington & The Framers


Alert: Americans who honor the U.S. Constitution’s strict separation of church and state are now genuinely alarmed. Agnostics and atheists, as well as observant people of every faith, fear — sensibly — that the religious right is gaining historic political power, via an ultraconservative movement with highly placed friends.

But many of us feel helpless. We haven’t read the Founding Documents since school (if then). We lack arguing tools, “verbal karate” evidence we can cite in defending a secular United States.

For instance, such extremists claim — and, too often, we ourselves assume — that U.S. law has religious roots. Yet the Constitution contains no reference to a deity.

http://www.msmagazine.com/fall2004/fightingwords.asp

[tk2kewl]

1. BTW what was that crap by Kerry

saying he supported the faith based intiatives? that was utter crap. you know he didn't, but he said it anyway.

[wyldwolf]

2. pandering, of course. Something we ALL do...

...to gain favor...

[tk2kewl]

3. yeah... but they should be done away with

and he knows it

[Komrade _azul]

4. Pandering will only increase Their following

By pandering to the right Kerry made their views all the more legitimate in the eyes of the public. Only by taking a hard stance against the Right will Hillary, or whomever, have a fighting chance in 2008.

[sangh0]

5. Can we try to NOT turn this into a political debate?

There are plenty of places to discuss that particular issue.

[robbedvoter]

6. Separation of church and state is THE MOST POLITICAL DEBATE

going on in this country right now. It's of course only a cover for the real subjecr: the disappearance of democracy, constitution. But the smoke, or "new reality" thrown in our eyes is the "Moral Values " bs(gleaned from exit polls showing W losing), which is to say: "God wins, you lose."
I see no way of discussing separation of church and state out of the political context.

[sangh0]

7. I should have been clearer

I was referring to the Kerry thing, which is more of a campaign debate than a seperation of church and state issue. My bad.

[robbedvoter]

8. But if we talk of the future of the party, the campaign may be touched

As in: "Some say we didn't cater to the "values people" - but the reality is - we bent way too much"

[sangh0]

9. I think we should talk about the future of the party

which is why I don't think we should be talking about Kerry. Unless something really major happens, Kerry is the past.

[TaraMoon]

12. Failure of Democratic Party

The Democratic party has shown no inclination to take on the
Religious Right.

[TaraMoon]

11. Don't be too sure

Don't be too sure he didn't. The Democratic Party has
demonstrated a willingness to roll over on this issue among
others. Let's remember that Al Gore chose as his running mate
a strong proponent of Faith-Based Charity.

[shuffnew]

10. Separation of Church & State... Constitution has no reference to diety...

Great post and reference. If anyone is interested in refreshing their high school studies on this subject and be able to rebut some of the extreme right stated myths, below is some suggestions and additional references:

1) As for rebuttals to myths and arguments presented by the extreme right, the best website to get refreshed on how to rebut the extreme right myths (most authoritative and correct, I think) is located at:
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/tnpidx.htm (Peter's prior webpage, which is linked now on above URL, as his site no longer exists)I found that Peter's old site is often quoted and referenced in case law sites (on the number of legal websites that I viewed). By going to dead links from legal websites (later learning the links no longer worked), I finally found the above where an individual has started a website and has been started to preserve all or part of Peter's prior website (dunno if he is deceased or what).

2) As for refreshing our high school studies and understanding of "Separation of Church & State" as it relates to our founding documents, I found many good courses on the pbs.org website - one of the best of many that I found on the pbs.org website follows (a grade level 10-12 short course with several quizes to take - I've summarized the Q&A of one of the quizes below and added some additional links to references on the Q&A), but you can do a search on the http://www.pbs.org website and find many courses and materials relating to our U.S. Constitution, founders, founding documents, Separation of Church & State, etc.:

Church and State Separation: The Challenge and Debate
Grade level: 10-12
Subjects: U.S. Government, Civics
http://www.pbs.org/flashpointsusa/20040127/educators/

< snip..."Introduction" >
"Introduction: The United States Constitution's First Amendment prohibits the government from favoring a specific religion or passing legislation to establish an official, national religion. This clause is known as the separation of church and state. Because of the clause's vague language, there is an interpretive element that has resulted in myriad legal battles. Some of the most recent center on issues such as abortion, school prayer, reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, same-sex marriage, and the right to die. These challenge the Supreme Court to make sometimes controversial decisions as it deciphers the clause in order to protect individuals' freedom of religion rights. These issues are likely to arise during the 2004 presidential election, as well."
< ...end of snip > For full text of the short course: http://www.pbs.org/flashpointsusa/20040127/educators/
One of the quizes in the above course follows: (I've summarized the Q&A below)...

What Do You Know About The Separation of State and Church?"

1. Where in the U.S. Constitution does it say that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, based on the sovereign authority of God?
* nowhere. Our nation was founded as a secular government, based on the authority of "We, the People," not a god, king, or dictator.


2. How many times does the word "God" appear in the U.S. Constitution?
* Zero(0).The U.S. Constitution does not contain the word "God" in it at all.

3. How many times does the Declaration of Independence refer to Christianity or Jesus?
* Zero(0). There is no mention of Jesus, Christ, Christianity, religious persecution, or religious freedom in the Declaration of Independence.
* Note: My personal note from my studies during this course & quizes on this 3rd question: The closet mention of anything spiritual in the Declaration of Independence is in the first paragraph of the Declaration: "... to dissolve the Political Bands... to which the laws of Nature and of Nature's God.." and in the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence: " that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."). Neither of these two references relate to a specific God or religion and the Declaration of Indepence has no mention of Jesus, Christ, Christianity, etc. at all.

4. The US Constitution guarantees religious liberty for Christians, all religions, atheist & agnotics, or all 3 of these?
* all 3 of the these. Religious liberty is meaningless unless we all have it. Freedom From Religion Foundation president Anne Gaylor says, "There can be no religious freedom without the freedom to dissent."

5. Where did the separation of church and state originate? (France, Soveit Union, US, or Nazi Germany)?
* United States of America. The U.S.A. was the first nation in history to separate church and state.

6. What does the First Amendment say about religion?
* Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting free exercise. The First Amendment begins with these words: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . . ." The two clauses are referred to, respectively, as the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause.

7. The phrase "wall of separation between church and state" originated with?
* a letter written by President Thomas Jefferson. President Thomas Jefferson coined this phrase in a carefully crafted letter to the Danbury Baptists of Connecticut in 1802. It has since been widely picked up and invoked in major Supreme Court decisions.
Re: http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
* President Thomas Jefferson's letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the Establishment Clause (Ref: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1 )that we use today: "Separation of church and state."

8. Which early colonies practiced freedom of religion?
* Roger Williams' Providence settlement... Trick question! Roger Williams' Providence settlement founded in 1656 expressly guaranteed religious freedom. However, the Pilgrims originally were a tolerant people, when they founded Plymouth in 1620. By 1691, the Pilgrims had adopted the theocratic, intolerant Calvinism of the Puritans, who founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1628. The Puritans came to this land expressly to establish a bible commonwealth, and banished "heretics" and dissenters. In Virginia, heresy was a capital offense punishable by death by burning. Quakers were particularly persecuted. People who were not orthodox Christians were not legally protected, could be denied civil rights and jailed. The founders of the new nation of the United States of America, conversant with extreme religious intolerance and violence in the several colonies, were determined to put an end to it. That is why they established state/church separation.

9. The Puritans escaped religious persecution and, in their own colony, allowed religious freedom for everyone, all Christians, or Puritans only?
* Puritans only. Puritans (Congregational Calvinists) only were allowed. Even practicing Puritans were held to strict litmus tests. (The Puritans loved religious freedom so much that they kept it all to themselves.)

10. Where does the phrase ". . . the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; ..." appear?
* U.S. treaty signed by President Adams. In 1797 the United States entered into a treaty with Tripoli, in which it was declared:

* "As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Musselmen . . . it is declared . . . that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." This treaty was written under Washington's presidency, and it was ratified by Congress under John Adams, signed by Adams.

11. By an Act of Congress, U.S. currency has carried the motto "In God We Trust" since when?
* 1957. In 1955, Congress passed a law requiring that "In God We Trust" appear on all U.S. coins and currency. The first paper currency with the motto appeared in 1957. This was right after the McCarthy era, during the early Cold War, when no congressperson would dare be seen voting against "God." "In God We Trust" did appear occasionally on a few coins, starting with a 2-cent piece in the 1860s, in an attempt (it is surmised) to put "God" on the side of the north during the Civil War. In 1956, an Act of Congress adopted "In God We Trust" as a national motto. The original motto, "E Pluribus Unum" ("out of many, one,") celebrating plurality, still appears on the Presidential Seal and on some paper currency.

12. The Pledge of Allegiance, first published in 1892, has included the words "under God" since when?
* 1954. As with "In God We Trust," "under God" is also a Johnny-come-lately. It was inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy era. The original pledge was first published on September 8, 1892 in the magazine "Youth's Companion" with no reference to a deity.

13. Who made the following statement?
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."

* Adolf Hitler. April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933.

14. In 1890, bible reading was outlawed from Wisconsin schools. Who was responsible?
* a Roman Catholic family. A Roman Catholic family objected to the exclusive use of the Protestant King James Version of the bible. The court barred all bible reading from Wisconsin public schools. . Catholicism was a small minority in 19th-century America. It is usually minority groups who need the protection of the Bill of Rights (Re: http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html ).

15. The U.S. Supreme Court outlawed student-initiated prayers at high-school football games in 2000. Who were the plaintiffs in that lawsuit?
* Roman Catholic and Mormon families. The Texas lawsuit was taken by a Catholic family and a Mormon family who had children who were being harassed by the born-again majority in the public schools.

16. According to the "Lemon test," in order to be constitutional, a law or public act must have a secular purpose, have a primary effect that neither advances nor inhibits religion, not result in excessive governmental entanglement with religion, or all 3?:
all 3 are correct. The 3-pronged Lemon test Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971)
(Re: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=4038&invol=602), (which dealt with public aid to private schools) has almost consistently been utilized by the Supreme Court since the early 1970s. ALL THREE prongs of the test must be satisfied.

17. All American Presidents have been practicing Christians True or False?
False. John Adams, John Q. Adams, Millard Fillmore and William H. Taft were Unitarians*. Jefferson was a Deist/Freethinker. Harrison, Johnson, Grant and Hayes were not members of a church. Lincoln was a Deist. Etc. (*Although some Unitarians of that time considered themselves "Christians," they rejected the Trinity and other doctrines that most Christians today consider essential.)

18. The U.S. Constitution says there shall be no religious test for public office True or False?
True. Article VI:
" . . . but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

19. John Adams declared Christmas to be a national holiday True or False?
False. Christmas was outlawed in some colonies. Alabama was the first state to make it a holiday in 1836. By 1890, all other states had done likewise. Re: Holiday Origins Website... Christmas & Other Religious & Miscellaneous Holiday History at: http://www.holidayorigins.com/html/christmas.html

20. A president, being sworn in, is required to place a hand on the Holy Bible and say "so help me, God." True or False?
False. The oath of office does not mention a deity or the bible:
"Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--'I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.' " This is the only oath given in the Constitution, and it is entirely secular.

21. Since the First Amendment deals with "Congress," states are free to advance religion if they wish.True or False?
False. The 14th Amendment makes the entire Bill of Rights applicable to the states. The first Supreme Court case to declare a state's religious practices illegal under the 14th Amendment was the McCollum case (1948) which removed religious instruction from the public schools. Re: Supreme Court case: "Illinois ex rel. McCollum v. Board of Ed. of School Dist. No. 71, Champaign Cty., 333 U. S. 203 (1948)"

Links to Historical Documents
U.S. National Archives & Records Administration

The Declaration of Independence: http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/declaration.html

The Constitution of the United States: http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/declaration.html

The Bill of Rights: http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html

Constitutional Amendments 11-27: http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

About the US Supreme Court:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/about.html

Where to Obtain US Supreme Court Opinions:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/obtainopinions.pdf

The Avalon Project at Yale University School of Law...
The Federalist Papers: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed.htm

[cjmr]

13. Nice quiz!

I think #13 is Hitler paraphrasing Martin Luther, actually. Luther had a lot to say about secular education.

On the other hand, based on my reading of books written by children brought up in Hitler Youth camps and schools, the "faith" being taught in those schools had much more to do with fascism and Aryanism than it had to do with Christianity.

[reprehensor]

14. bump

[TaraMoon]

15. Expose the Religious Right as a Totalitarian Political Movement

Instead of wasting time trying to convince uneducated people that the U.S. wasn't founded with a religious government, we need to focus on exposing the Religious Right as a totalitarian political movement fronting as a religious movement. We need to expose their totalitarian connections, their support of dictatorships, their covert money-making schemes, etc. How many people know that Rev. Sun Myung Moon of the Moonies pours millions into Republican campaigns? How many people know about Pat Robertson's links to Liberia's dictator?