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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:03 AM
Original message
Scientists extract images directly from brain
Researchers from Japan’s ATR Computational Neuroscience Laboratories have developed new brain analysis technology that can reconstruct the images inside a person’s mind and display them on a computer monitor, it was announced on December 11. According to the researchers, further development of the technology may soon make it possible to view other people’s dreams while they sleep.

The scientists were able to reconstruct various images viewed by a person by analyzing changes in their cerebral blood flow. Using a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) machine, the researchers first mapped the blood flow changes that occurred in the cerebral visual cortex as subjects viewed various images held in front of their eyes. Subjects were shown 400 random 10 x 10 pixel black-and-white images for a period of 12 seconds each. While the fMRI machine monitored the changes in brain activity, a computer crunched the data and learned to associate the various changes in brain activity with the different image designs.

Then, when the test subjects were shown a completely new set of images, such as the letters N-E-U-R-O-N, the system was able to reconstruct and display what the test subjects were viewing based solely on their brain activity.

For now, the system is only able to reproduce simple black-and-white images. But Dr. Kang Cheng, a researcher from the RIKEN Brain Science Institute, suggests that improving the measurement accuracy will make it possible to reproduce images in color.

“These results are a breakthrough in terms of understanding brain activity,” says Dr. Cheng. “In as little as 10 years, advances in this field of research may make it possible to read a person’s thoughts with some degree of accuracy.”

http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/12/scientists-extract-images-directly-from-brain/

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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. WOW!
Now that is really, really exciting.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. That was one of those results that left me envious. I wish I'd done it.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. if it can determine if people in vegetative states are truly there, good.
but you know everything like this is weaponized. :(
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. WTF does this have to do with vegitative states?
And what is this about weaponization?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. I think he might be vegetative and locked-in states
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 11:54 AM by Posteritatis
The former are gone as people (and are usually obvious on a typical scan or the like); the latter aren't, and things like this would be nothing short of a godsend for them.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. simple. if people can't put forward images, then they probably
aren't still there, alive. as for weapons, this can be used against people as well as for them. reading minds can be used against you.

vegitative-- vegEtative
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wow.
That's both exciting and scary!
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. Little known fact:
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 11:31 AM by Dangerously Amused


They used George W. Bush for a baseline reading of one who viewed the world around him, yet registered no brain activity.

Seriously though, this is cool. And a little scary.
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elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. Similar to something
on "Fringe" last week. Fun show.
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. Before long they will be able to roll out the latest car key location device. n/t
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting. How long before our own brains are used to
convict us. Kind of scary.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I question whether that could ever happen without subject cooperation...
One issue I believe is fundamental to this kind of technology is that each person's brain is unique, and the particulars of our internal thought/memory encodings are unique. You notice that they have to train the machine learning end of it on the subject, before they can use it. Each individual would have to submit to that kind of training process, before their thoughts could be read.

The other big issue would be something more portable and unobtrusive than fMRI.

Of course, one could imagine some kind of authoritarian state where citizens are forced to participate in such training.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I don't know that training will always be necessary
Basic sensory systems are to my knowledge pretty standard for all people without any handicaps/abnormalities. As a matter of fact our visual cortex works pretty much the same was as it does in cats and other mammals. The first discovery that the visual cortex actually creates a representative map of what you see was made using cat brains.

Sure there will be differences in every individual, but when enough individuals have been tested, and the technology has advanced sufficiently calibration might not be necessary.

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Cameras are like eyeballs.
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 01:14 AM by Hissyspit
Brains are like computers.

Our mind's eye is like a bitmap?

The human race has been on a continuous journey to discover how to build another version, a metaphor essentially, of itself.

While the green you see is not the same green I see, because our eyeballs are individual, they are close enough so that essentially they are the same. W.J.T. Mitchell in "Iconology" divided images into classes: graphic, optical, perceptual, mental, and verbal. But they are all images and thus and can conceivably translate between each other.


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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I'm not familiar with Mitchel. Is he a philosopher or a psychologist? n/t
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Art Historian and Linguist.
I teach art history and painting and digital arts and spend a lot of time talking about semiology and symbols, of course.

I did not realize this, but googling him I just found out he is the editor of 'Critical Inquiry.'
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I like all of those things
I really enjoyed art history, and I also enjoyed reading some of Carl Jung's work. He's often refered to as a Psychologist though most consider him to be more of a Philosopher. Psychology and Philosophy are both wonderful in their own ways but I think it's an important distinction between empericism and logical thought excercises.

Anyways Jung was a perfectly dreadful psychologist, but an excellent symbology guy. If you're interested in both you might check out some of his books.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. I remember reading an article on why voice recognition technology would never be feasible.
The argument was that there were too many differences in peoples individual voices.

Within a few years of my reading it, the first voice recognition software was being made use of.

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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Uhm...
:tinfoilhat:

Can ya read my mind now, scientists?

:P
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. Holy shit.
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 12:44 AM by Hissyspit
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
13. Oh man, I am a little bit freaked over that. It's cool, but scary
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. ANd then the NSA will find a way to tap that and really get the goods
on all of us.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. By sneaking up on you with an MRI machine? n/t
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. I hear they use typewriters and stuff too. We must smash them all.
Even if they end up being able to read thoughts by satellite, most of them will be get filed under 'paranoid and frustrated'.
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pepperbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
20. if we can eventually read the mind, wouldn't it stand to reason that we'll be able to
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 05:34 AM by pepperbear
write the mind as well?

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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Well certainly not with the same technique.
but it raises interesting possibilities. Notice that they had to train the system to recognize how the blood flow in a given individual corresponded to sample images before getting usable results. They are not even reading electrical activity, just the blood flow side effect.
I think that remains well into the sci-fi maybe someday... theoretically... depending on... etc. category.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Newsweek had an article back in 2001 or 2002 about vending machines
That could send out subliminal messages - like 'Hot day. Wouldn't a cold drink right now feel great."
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. I think we have that capability already. Machine intervention not required.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. They would have been eight years ahead of the research,
but they were using Bush's brain as a test subject and they kept turning up nothing. It took them that long to figure out that the machine's reading was accurate.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
25. Very cool
I would love to see this technology reversed as a way to bypass blindness.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. I think artificial retinas/etc are a different avenue
There's been some great stuff done with those in the last few years; there's a few people walking around now with admittedly-rudimentary artificial vision again. It's usually a fairly small (4x4, 16x16, etc) grid of black and white or greyscale pixels, but that's still tremendous given the alternative. It's more or less a matter of working on the resolution now.

This looks like it's more about output as opposed to those, which deal with input. Truly awesome things, but they're both dealing with pretty distinct processes.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Bah! Spare me your facts and reality!
I'm trying to build a cyber-super-suit over here!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
26. Yeah but still no flying cars!
We were promised flying cars!

This is scary in the hands of the CIA.

-Hoot
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
28. One step closer to my brain-to-Photoshop interface.. (nt)
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Until The End Of The World???
Spooky and neat!
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. Is that a fuzzy wuzzy
or does someone need Bikini Wax?
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. All I know it has nothing to do with bears.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
36. Wow now why would they want to read your mind
what purpose
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Keep your 'they'. I would like to do it, for myself.
Additionally, I can think of a wide range of medical applications. Someone give this to Stephen Hawking right now, but install a porn filter on his internet so he gets work done.
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angryfirelord Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. In other news
Sales of tin foil reach an all time high.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. Fascinating! by a strange coincidence...
the first ever copy of Nature I got (and the last for a long time, because it was mostly waaaay too technical for me) had a news item about one of these scientists a decade or so ago, when they were in the early stages and working with the optic nerves of cats. I often wondered how that was progressing but couldn't remember the names of the individuals and din't want to pay for a journal lookup.

Anyway, this is fucking awesome. Also sort of scary, but mostly awesome. I have always wanted to be able to record parts of my mental activity including dreams. Hope this gets into my hands before my brain starts to deteriorate.
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