I had no idea vegetarians were so hated.

[Bouncy Ball]

Wow. I just got out of GD, where I heard all vegetarians called self-righteous and obnoxious and was accused of caring more about a chicken's life than a human being's life.

Why are they mutually exclusive to some people? It's ALL life, to me. Because I care about humans (who are animals, anyway), I care about animals. What's so hard to understand about that? And what's so horrible about caring about animals? Damn.

And I don't care HOW other people eat and have never passed judgement on people for how they eat. What is the deal with THAT?

:eyes:

Pretty eye-opening. Some people are horribly thin-skinned, it seems. I'm glad no one has reacted that way to me in real life. Why is it when you say you are vegetarian, some people just think they need to jump down your throat?

[livinginphotographs]

1. Hence the reason why I can get pretty nasty.

It gets old really fast.

Welcome to the dark side. :D

[Bouncy Ball]

2. Apparently the dark side.

Damn.

You know, I wasn't a vegetarian just two weeks ago. I was a meat eater. And I NEVER had anyone give me shit about it. Furthermore, I had no problem with vegetarians. So they didn't want to eat meat? Good for them.

And now I am one. And I get shit for it? I'm just glad I haven't gotten anything but a lot of good support in real life. It's only on here that I've gotten any crap about it.

[flvegan]

4. Your pal got tombstoned, I think.

I forget the poster's name, but you two went back 'n forth. Now...he/she is gone.

[Bouncy Ball]

7. Yep, I saw that!

[Warpy]

9. I've seen it from both sides, actually.

From our side it comes disguised as solicitousness thinly plastered over contempt, usually from people who hang on every word that is printed in Prevention Magazine. I've experienced a lot of it as I'm a person with a chronic illness who also spent a lot of years peddling whole foods. It's amazing the number of people who quote from articles that say I'm ill because deep down I want to be, or that maybe I'm working off some really nasty Karma from a past life, or that I should throw away all those drugs that are keeping me alive and go in for Rofling or Ayurveda, and how can I possibly eat whole foods and still support the mean old drug companies, and it's all my mother's fault for getting me vaccinated for whooping cough when I was a baby, and the bottom line is how can I possibly be so blind/stupid/uneducated that I don't immediately take all the advice that they're handing out without being asked for it ad nauseum?

(end of rant)

Let's face it, a lot of people out there are simply defensive after having run into a New Age recent convert to vegetarianism. It's understandable, especially when they've been hammered with pious rantings from the "love animals, don't eat them" crowd.

I generally inform people of my choice very gently, and usually only when pressed to accept a plateful of meat at a dinner party after I've said "no thanks" and loaded up on veggies. I generally tell people the truth, that I've never particularly been fond of meat, and the rest of them are certainly welcome to my share. I don't lecture them because I don't want lectures in return. If I get a lececture anyway, a frosty "Thanks for your opinion," generally does the trick.

I'm a lot of very unpopular things (lefty, feminist, atheist, vegetarian, bad Buddhist) and I've learned to keep it all very low key, telling people only when I'm asked.

[flvegan]

3. GD is fun like that.

It could be worse...you could be a cat in Wisconsin...

[SiouxJ]

5. I've never been attacked in real life

for my eating habits, the way I've seen people be attacked here; and I live in cattle country. People are usually very accommodating in restaurants here. These "honey, darlin'" waitresses may be a little surprised, but they always try to help instead of criticizing. I think they take the attitude that it's none of their business. I don't know why people here feel so threatened by us, but it's obvious they do.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. Maybe on the internet people feel more free to say what they

really feel?

:shrug:

[Lorien]

8. Animal hate is trendy here

and in a lot of other areas lately, from what I've seen. I believe that It's part of the overall adoption of GOP/ RW viewpoints in this country. Fundies and RWers are very threatened by anything that they view as reducing their own importance on this planet. To them, love and caring is a very finite commodity, and if you direct it at something that is not human (more importantly-not them) they feel robbed of some of their own inherent importance. What they don't understand is that this is all part of the RW push to turn every element of nature into a "commodity"; if you can't grow rich from it, it should not exist. They'll sell more beef and pork if all Americans view cattle and pigs as being no different than ears of corn. The NRA will continue to be powerful as long as their are avid hunters out there. Building new mini malls, or creating new toxic waste dumps is so much easier if EVERYONE adopts the "if you care about endangered species, then you hate babies" meme. Animal hate enriches big corporations and political groups, and animal love is a threat to their profits and power. I don't think that many DUers-much less anyone else in America-have noticed that they are, once again, playing the role of GOP corporate pawn when they spew their anti-animal jargon. That's my view of it, anyway.

[LisaLynne]

19. OMG -- I totally think you've got it!

Wow, I totally think you're on to something!!!

Let's face it, people don't want to admit when they're wrong. If you admit that there is a problem with the way animals are treated, you have to do something about it or at least change some of the things you personally do. That's scary to people. It makes them think about things that aren't pleasant.

To me, it's almost the same attitude that, say, some men might have to women's rights. If they admit that women are oppressed and maybe things need to be changed, then they have to admit that they've been participating in the oppression. Actually, the same could go for some women, too. Anyway, that's a hard thing to do and the easier thing would just to be to deny the problem. Then, you can go back to your comfy, easy life, doing what you want and not worrying about the consequences.

My position has always been that deep down people know that the way the meat industry in this country is run is wrong and that all forms of animal abuse is wrong, but a lot of people are just too lazy to do anything about it. So, when they are confronted with a vegetarian it makes them face in some subconscious way that they're doing something they know is wrong and from that comes the anger. Why do I think this? Because in a former incarnation of myself (in this life), I was just like that. :) So, sometimes I feel hopeful that since I woke up, others will, too ... eventually.

[flvegan]

20. Yes, exactly. As I've stated many times before...

when it comes to animal advocacy, many DUers, progressives, liberals, etc etc etc...
drank the kool-aid too.

[Robeson]

18. Yes, I've often found that many people are especially brave....

...when they don't have to make the same comments to someone face-to-face.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. Seriously, what is up with cat hatred? It's repulsive.

Cripes, you'd think we were living in 1840 the way people talk about "protecting their property".

[Lorien]

16. It's even in the PET'S GROUP, for Chrissakes!

Even though my previous post got a big yawn, I'll say it again; it's all about objectifying animals to ensure that they are viewed as disposable commodities so that corporations and political special interests can literally get away with murder.

[DelawareValleyDem]

11. What I find most ridiculous

are the references to PETA's "agenda". Sounds too much like Scalia and his ilk discussing the alleged homosexual agenda

[flvegan]

12. I think I'm on everyone's "ignore" at this point.

I respond all the time in those flamefests, but nobody comes out to play with me.

[Lorien]

17. You too?

I've got just as many of them on "ignore" at this point. There's only so much bullshit one can stomach on a "progressive" board.

[Maru Kitteh]

25. You're on their ignore list because

you make too much sense, and THAT is really threatening to them. See no evil, hear no evil............

[livinginphotographs]

27. I think I may have joined you on a few.

I've noticed the same thing.

Of course, I've added the very first (and hopefully only) entry to mine tonight, even though I'd swore I would never use that feature. There's only so much condescension and veiled personal attacks I can tolerate and still be on my best behavior, though.

[4_Legs_Good]

13. To be honest (and they'd HATE this), but I think it's an inner guilt thing

I know before I became a vegetarian over a decade ago, I used to ream on vegetarians with the same stupid-assed comments that drive me crazy now.

The thing is that I've always had an incredible fondness for animals, and could never stand to see anything die. I think that somehow turns into this visceral hatred from veggies when you know you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing.

And let's not fool ourselves, I think we (usually, at least I am) are pretty self-righteous, simply because we think we're right! I don't hate meat eaters, but I *do* believe that what they're doing is wrong, and while I don't go on and on about it, if a discussion comes up I will defend my position beyond the simple "it's just not for me" part.

david

[Bouncy Ball]

14. Thanks, that was a great reply.

Honesty is always good. :-)

Maybe my vegetarianism is too new. I haven't had a chance to have any kind of stance on it beyond "meat's not for me."

Maybe, I too, shall be a smug, self-righteous, obnoxious vegetarian someday! I'm totally kidding with that by the way.

When I was a meat eater, vegetarians never bothered me. In fact, I knew it wasn't good to eat meat and I usually admired them for their food choices.

:shrug:

[livinginphotographs]

15. I can't help but admit to being a bit "self-righteous."

Normally, I won't even bring it up unless someone asks me, but after all, this is a discussion board. The point is to discuss.

Plus, when someone says something stupid, I've always had a real problem with spending as much time as I can convincing them HOW stupid what they just said is, instead of letting it go. 'Tis why I had so much trouble working in customer service. That's the reason I find myself caught up in the flamewars all the time.

[Texasgal]

21. Bouncy

I have found this group to the most peaceful, fun-loving group of them all. I was really shocked by that thread yesterday... really shocked.

I am not a veggie, but I came down here asking for advice on a family member who had recently turned vegan. He was visiting and I wanted to be able to offer him the right kinds of foods and not eat anything in front of him that may have made him ill.

These guys and gals down here were so gracious with suggestions on how and what I should do, that I have decided to stay. I am not a vegetarian and none of these members have chided me for not being one. They have accepted me, as I accept them. I have actually started eating much less meat because of them.

I have the up most respect for this group because they literally put their money where their mouth is. They are TRUE animal rights activists. I am in awe.

Don't worry Bouncy, I think you held your own in the thread, it's obviously a hot topic here on DU.

[Bouncy Ball]

22. Aw, thanks Texasgal, I really appreciate that.

I have found that while not all peace loving people are animal lovers almost ALL animal lovers are peace loving people, too.

We know how much harm can be done to those who have no voice and are helpless against us.

Thanks for your awareness of stuff like this. I always accomodated my vegetarian and vegan friends and family members and always picked their brains to find out what they ate, etc.

I have an uncle who, because of severe food allergies cannot have ANY spices or seasonings except salt. Can you imagine how hard that is? And he was already vegan. So basically he eats the plainest whole food diet you can imagine. But he's used to it, he likes not having reactions, and eating out is a bit of a pain in the butt for him, but he's got to be one of the healthiest people I have EVER met. That told me vegetarians and vegans are on to something.

I'm rambling now, thanks for your reply, Texasgal.

[Maru Kitteh]

26. Texasgal that's one of the nicest things I've seen

anybody say for a long time 'round here. :-) Made me all warm inside, thanks. :hug:

[SiouxJ]

30. Very nice post

I have to say that most of my friends in real life go out of their way to accommodate my diet and never complain or say mean things. In fact, some (after a few drinks) will say things like, "I could be a vegetarian; I don't eat much meat at all." Which of course is a lie but I'd rather hear that than some stupid cliched remark like we see here constantly. Overall, I think they respect me for sticking with something for so long, and for having a conscience. They don't attack me for being so committed.

You remind me of real life friends I have, who just accept me for who I am and don't feel the need to ridicule my beliefs. I'm glad you feel comfortable here :-) .

[CrispyQ]

23. I agree with the previous posts that there is an unacknowledged

guilt among meat eaters at eating meat, especially from those that are educated about the horrors of factory farming. Anytime you question your beliefs & they come up lacking, your choice is to change your behavior, or continue on what is now a bogus path. Anyone who has read about factory farms knows that that is not a righteous way to treat animals regardless of how much one believes in the ‘humans have dominion over animals’ crap.

I'm never in anyone's face about my veggieness, & generally it doesn't even come up unless I'm in a social situation where food is part of the event. When asked why I'm veg, I tell them that I think a vegan diet is healthier -- spiritually, ecologically & physically.



An interesting fable: http://www.purewatergazette.net/grumps.htm

[SOS]

24. Another possibility...

on why vegetarians are always attacked at DU:

Dr. Neal Barnard, founder of PCRM, identified 4 foods that he qualifies as "addictive". They are meat, chocolate, cheese and sugar. These are the craved foods. People often crave a burger or a donut, but never organic vegetables. Therefore when the topic of meat in the diet comes up, we are essentially dealing with confronting an addiction.
As a recovered alcoholic (13 years sober), I can well remember people giving me "lectures" on my drinking. My response was to angrily dismiss them as cranks and head to the nearest bar. With 13 years of sobriety I now see they were just trying to help in their own way. Of course with meat we are also dealing with the suffering of animals, which makes the topic doubly explosive.
When an addiction is challenged in any way, the addict is going to get nasty.

[Maru Kitteh]

28. The guilt factor also fits in nicely with addiction

Although I will have to disagree with Dr. Bernard about not craving organic vegetables. I think I'm addicted to my garden tomatoes. I tell myself every year I'm going to plant more so I can can more of them but the more I plant, the more I eat. :-) Not enough of them ever make it to the canner to get through the winter.

Somtimes I just stand there with my head buried in the wonderful leaves of my giant plants. It's not ........ normal. It's an addiction I can live with though.

[SiouxJ]

29. Nothing better than home grown tomatoes!

and that photo is making me drool! I can smell them just from looking at it.

I myself am addicted to popcorn, well any kind of corn product, but especially popcorn. I know the movie theater kind is particularly bad for you (so much oil) but I don't care! I have to have it. I don't have many vices, but that is one. I love corn in all its forms ;-) .

[Maru Kitteh]

32. You should live here in my state then

Nebraska. I have a corn cookbook. Corn for miles and miles. Of course 80% of it is genetically modified franken-corn designed to withstand gallons of insecticide and herbicide so it can be fed to cows.

I'm planting some ruby red sweetcorn mixed with summer squash this year.

[curse10]

31. It's an accepted form of hatred in this world

sad, really. I really, really hate it when people accuse me of spending more time worrying about animals than I do about people. It's offensive and wrong. I can handle more than one issue at a time. And my heart has enough room in it for animals and people both.

[ehrnst]

33. Caring more about a chicken's life than a human being?

When they say something like that, you can reply that vegetarianism has positive socioeconomic and environmental benefits for humans.

Unfortunately, that doesn't just trip off the tongue...

[Dastard Stepchild]

34. I think I learned this best...

When I almost got ran off the road for driving my car which had the license plates "go veg" printed boldly upon them.

I just don't even pay attention. Cuz really, as I sit through another rant about how stupid I am for caring about all the little critters, I am thinking in my head that it isn't quite worth my time to listen to the opinions of people that I don't respect. I just blank out and say "whatever, dude." I save my attention for individuals who actually deserve a moment of my cognitive functioning.

:eyes: Neanderthals.