NY Times bread and the Cook's Illustrated enhancements

[Stinky The Clown]

Has anyone tried the enhancements to the NYT bread that was in the February 2008 issue under the title No-Knead Bread 2.0?

[Duer 157099]

1. Arrgh, that's what I get for letting my subscription lapse

Is it like this one though?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/dining/211brex.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Edit: oops, never mind, it's not even close. Actually it's closer to the original NYT recipe, in that it's baked in a cast iron Dutch oven (note to self: remove the knob from the lid next time).

It has beer and vinegar added, I think I like that idea, it will probably add nice flavor. I'm going to try it soon. Wouldn't you know it, as soon as I finally get a Kitchen Aid mixer, all these "no-knead" bread recipes just start coming out of the woodwork!

[Stinky The Clown]

2. They also knead the dough "10 to 15 times"

It seems like a tweak, not a new recipe.

I haven't tried the first version, so can't compare to this one.

Don't worry about your KA ....... it has tons of uses.

[Phentex]

3. Saw it but haven't tried it yet...

I know some people complained about the lack of flavor so the CI one worked on improving that.

I enjoy kneading bread so I'm in no rush. :9

[sazemisery]

4. I have tweaked the NYT recipe to my own taste

many ways. But I like the original 'cause I LOVE BREAD PERIOD.

[grasswire]

5. my first loaf of NYT bread last month was beautiful...

...but I did think it lacked flavor -- maybe that's because there's so little yeast in it. You really oughta try it, H2, just for the experience. It's a good crust and crumb.

[Duer 157099]

6. I'm ready to try this now

But the rising time is pretty inconvenient! I usually get around to thinking about making food around now, 4-5pm (plus I had to get beer for the recipe, so couldn't start earlier).

The rising time is 8-18 hours. I want to do it now, but that puts me at 1am-noonish tomorrow, if I do it exactly by the book.

What's a reasonable compromise, in terms of how long to leave it out at RT vs. in the fridge, so that I can bake it in about 24 hours from now? Or, just make it now and leave it out for 24 hours? I'm not going to want to make the dough 6 hours from now.

Bread making is not for the spontaneous types, lol.

[NMDemDist2]

7. I leave it out for 24 hours or more all the time, it just improves the flavor

I usually put it together when I'm making dinner then bake it the next morning though

[Duer 157099]

8. OK thanks, that's sorta what I was thinking/hoping

but I remembered reading somewhere about limiting the rise time because otherwise you depleat the... ? what? sugars? for the yeast, and then what? What's the downside of a long rise?

[NMDemDist2]

9. the holes aren't as big then and the 2nd rise is smaller

but you get a finer crumb

I have been pleased with all my NYT loaves no matter what kind of flour and longer rise times

:shrug:

[Duer 157099]

10. Oh, I see

So the second rise is to allow the formation of the large air pockets, and if the first rise is too long, the yeast are too tired to respire much more (or rather, the sugars are depleated).

Well I just mixed up a batch, so we'll see tomorrow! Thanks!

[NMDemDist2]

11. well how did it turn out?

huh?? huh,huh????

:hi:

[Duer 157099]

12. Just took it out of the oven

It's all brown and crusty, mmmmmmmm

In the meantime, I made another batch -- I think I was a little careless with the measurements the first time, because the dough was just too wet. So this time, I used a scale and weighed everything. But, because I just cannot seem to ever ever follow a recipe exactly, I used the only yeast I had which was not the rapid rise (so I added a little pinch extra, but I should have proofed it first, but I didn't, just added to the dry ingredients first, but figured since it's such a long incubation, it'll probably be ok) and I used a 50:50 mixture of AP/bread flour just because that's my nature :D

No wonder baking has never been my forte! I just *cannot* follow directions!!

[NMDemDist2]

13. i've poured water out of the bowl after the first rise

added some flour to soak it up and still had good results

it's really pretty foolproof

enjoy! :hi:

[Duer 157099]

14. "Cool for 2 hours" --- LOL!

15 minutes was all I could manage.

Mmmmmm, crust is outstanding, flavor is better than the other few bread attempts of mine, it's almost like a very mild sourdough. Crumb is a bit too spongy for me, but that's probably because of how wet the dough was (?).

Overall, I'm not complaining! And have more dough getting ready for tomorrow....

[NMDemDist2]

15. cooling it completely helps with the 'doughy' texture. If you noticed

when you take it out of the pan it sounds like rice krispies and it's still cooking so if you can let it cool a bit more, the center can finish cooking

[Duer 157099]

16. Hah, well that explains alot

No wonder my bread always has a spongy interior! I don't think I've ever let one cool completely before cutting it open. Tomorrow I will resist! Thanks!

[NMDemDist2]

17. also I have noticed that after a day the crust will be more chewy than crunchy

it's all good though... :hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Stick with cooking .......

..... some of us (me included) just don't have the temperament to bake. My cooking gets consistent raves, even wjhen I think I screwed up, but my baking .... not so much cuz I try to get creative. And the hell of it is .... I KNOW why my baking ain't fer shit and I STILL do it. :)

[NMDemDist2]

19. ROFL if Mrs Hollandaise can bake this bread

you can too

:spank:

:hi:

[Duer 157099]

20. Yep, that's me

I went to the trouble to WEIGH the flour and the water and beer.

But something in me just goes... oh... I wonder what happens if I (substitute half the AP flour with bread flour, in this case)??? And then it's all downhill from there.

The funny thing is that I love watching America's Test Kitchen, and I know to what lengths these people go when they test a recipe -- I mean, they are thorough! And yet, here I come, thinking I can just wing it. It's insane!

[Stinky The Clown]

21. I made it. It has the consistency of a brick

It smells great.

I followed the recipe exactly, except for one thing. I failed to whisk the dry ingredients before adding the wet. Apart from that, I followed it exactly.

It never really rose.

I wonder if the yeast I bought was dead? It was an off brand (to me) of rapid rise. I normally use Fleishman's dry yeast.

[NMDemDist2]

22. sounds like dead yeast Stinky

it should double in the bowl overnight and have little holes on top before you do the final moves

try again eh?

[Stinky The Clown]

24. I made another batch last night

This morning, it appears to have risen considerably.

I'll bake it tonight and we'll see how it goes. I am using the same yeast I used for the last batch.

On edit ....... Do you have a link to the original NYT recipe for this?

[NMDemDist2]

25. ......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=28638

maybe the first batch was too cool to rise? odd.

sorry, that was the DU link.

here's the NYT link

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/081mrex.html?em&ex=1163221200&en=f0db6198c16c915c&ei=5087%0A

[Stinky The Clown]

27. That link to thte NYT answered a question I had. Thanks!

See my reply to Warpy, immediately below ........

[Warpy]

26. Sounds like dead yeast or too hot water

I throw a pinch of outdated dry yeast from the co op (that stuff never dies) and salt into the bowl of flour and turn the beater on. Then I add the COLD water to it and wait until it's mixed. Then I scrape off the beater and just cover the bowl as is and ignore it until some time the next day.

It always rises. It always tastes like I've used bread yeast instead of some wild variety that contaminated the slop when I was mixing it.

Working a little extra flour into it at the end seems to be key, shaping and reshaping the dough into a ball, using just enough flour to make it easy to handle. The finished ball of dough is earlobe texture, not like regular bread which is baby bottom texture.

I love this recipe even though I have a Kitchen Aid stand mixer that does my kneading on standard recipes. Since high altitude baking pretty much requires starting with a sponge at least the night before so that flavor can be developed, it's not a big deal to do a two day recipe.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. Okay, the second try tonight was a rousing success!!!! Like Night and Day.

As bad as was my first try, that's how successful was my second try.

To answer your question about water temp, I normally use 115F water and actually check its temp. For my failed batch, the water was even cooler.

So ...... I may have screwed up more stuff the first time than I thought. The recipe clearly calls for 1/4 tsp of yeast. I thought it was a misprint and used the entire 1/4 oz of yeast in the package. AZD posted the original NYT recipe link, immediately above. That' too, says 1/4 tsp, so I guess that's what they want. But then I failed to whisk the yeast into the flour. That said, I never heard of too much yeast being a problem. Surely too much yeast couldn't cause the bread to **not** rise ....... could it?

For this batch, I measured everything **very** carefully and used a only 1/4 tsp of yeast.

Tonight the bread got baked.

I can only start with a hearty "WOW!!!" and go up from there. The miracle is the crust. Of course I've had that crust from bakeries. But I have never been able to get it at home. Without a true steam injection oven, that crust is virtually impossible to achieve. But man ...... that old fashioned Dutch Oven does it ...... using the dough's own moisture to create the steam. How perfectly ingenious.

WOW!!!

[NMDemDist2]

29. woohoo!!

so glad you tried again

it really is very forgiving and all most fool proof

:highfive:

[Warpy]

30. Recipes are suggestions, only

However, I've known yeast to be killed off by 110 degree water, so I always err on the side of caution. In other words, I never bother proofing yeast, just dump it in with cool water and flour and a little salt, whether I'm doing a sponge, a barm, a poulish, or what have you that sits for overnight and gives the bread some decent flavor.

I only put a pinch of yeast into the bowl. I don't bother measuring. I know if those little buggers get wet and smell carbohydrates, they're going to multiply like crazy over the next 18-20 hours.

Adding flour when you're shaping the gooey mass of dough into a ball not only keeps your hands from getting covered in sticky glop, they give those yeasts some more carbos to feed on. That's why it's necessary to add a little more flour after the first long rising.

One of these days, I'm going to add a little malt to the first mixture, see if I can squeeze even more flavor out of it.

[Duer 157099]

23. I made a double batch the last time, but didn't use it all right away

half of the dough stayed in the fridge for a few days until I had the chance to bake it -- and it was just fine (even a bit more developed flavor). Is there a downside to this? I like it because then I just have some dough in the fridge ready for whenever I want to bake it.