What makes a good schawarma?

[Tab]

I love "real" gyros (not that Kronos crap) and souvlakia (basically the same, but with lamb) and have wanted to try a schawarma.

I figured they were similar - a place finally opened up nearby selling them. The owner asked me to tell him how I liked it (I think he's Lebanese). Not having had a Schawarma before I couldn't immediately say anything.

Upon eating it, it was basically a steak bomb without the cheese, but maybe peppers and onions. There has to be more to it than that. I think the owner wants to do a good job, and lord knows I want some good food, so I'm curious - what are the things that make a schawarma a schawarma? Spices?

My best souvlaki was at Villa Souvlaki in Montreal. I have no reference point for schawarma. I think the owner will work with me to get a damned good schawarma, but I don't know what to suggest.

Ideas?

[hippywife]

1. I wish I knew, Tab.

Coz I loves 'em! I'll be watching for an answer from this expert group, too. :hi:

[Duer 157099]

2. Well I can surely tell you where the best schwarma on the planet is

A place in Westwood Village, CA (UCLA area) called "Falafel King" - it's been there for forever, although it has moved to a larger storefront sometime in the past decade.

I've wanted to recreate it and have thought about it some, but never seriously attempted it.

When I have time to do some research and find some info, I'll post back here.

One of the condiments was a critical component (along with the equally critical tahini), it was a very bright green, I would guess it was parsley based, but honestly cannot recall the flavor.... ahhh memories....

I know that the meat was a mix of beef and lamb

I've got to edit this to say that I've done a brief google search and it looks like their quality has deteriorated over the past decade, which is a major shame. 20 years ago, this place was amazing, so somewhere in their history they have a recipe or chef who knew how to do it right -- I wonder if they've changed management.

[Tab]

3. 20 years is about 5 lifetimes in the restaurant biz

It's so rare to find really great stuff nowadays. Attempts to keep costs down, employee (or chef) burnout - they all take their toll on a restaurant (or really any business).

Finding a lasting classic is hard.

You know, this reminds of when a client put me up to stay at the Gramercy Park Hotel (in NYC). It's since been renovated (thank goodness) but that was more recently. Once a top hotel, when I was there (mid-90s, I guess) it was dark, seedy, you didn't even want to be in the bar, and the room was tiny and lights were burnt out, etc.

It's very hard to maintain a high level of standards in any business. Restaurant clientele are very sensitive to change. I hate to see a good place go downhill.

[alfredo]

7. The best place to eat here in Lexington is Alfalfa restaurant. Their

secret is to only allow people from within to gain ownership. They've been able to retain their quality by doing that. By the time the person can buy in, they are fully vetted and fully educated in the philosophy of the business. They've kept their standards high for well over 30 years.

http://www.alfalfarestaurant.com/

Louisville Ky residents should note that Lynn from Lynn's Paradise Cafe came from this lineage.

http://www.alfalfarestaurant.com/alf-pics.htm
That's Lynn on the bottom left. She's wearing a dark blouse. Many in this photo were owners, some were to become owners.

[twenty4blackbirds]

4. well spiced lamb, hot crisp bread, fresh salad

There's a place that does good chwarma - they use toasted pita bread, spiced lamb hot off the spit/hot plate, sliced iceberg lettuce and let's the customer add their own chilli/hot sauce and tomato sauce/chutney and cool cucumber&yoghurt dressing. It's the toasted pita, spiced lamb hot off the plate, vegetable and sauces.

There's another place that does good kebabs - flat Lebanese-type bread wrapped around sliced iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, raw onion, spiced lamb sliced off the leg/hot off the plate, and my choice of 3 sauces (I like tomato, chili, mayo) and all toasted warm for me to take away. The lamb is pretty good and sometimes I get bone bits which show it's real lamb. The salad is always fresh. The bread stays warm long enough for me to find a sheltered spot to eat.

There's another place closer than the 2 previously mentioned - it's all right. When the kebab is hot, then all is edible. They have the flat bread wrapped around lettuce, tomatoes, onion, tabouli, and spiced lamb and choice of sauces, and all toasted. The bread isn't the best quality and goes soggy quicker than the other 2 places after being toasted. The lamb is comparable. The tabouli is too lemony.

Spiced lamb is a very vital ingredient.

Anyhow I'd guess the owner is more interested in adapting to his customer's tastes than to have genuine schawarma.

That's how it seems to be for ethnic foods imported to a new region.

[Tab]

5. Actually, it's a new store.

I've been trying to figure out what they did with it, they're calling it "sirloin" but there's no spices (which I agree, could just be adapting for the area) but the "sirloin" tastes suspiciously like that frozen flat stuff you buy for horrible "steak bombs".

I think because they've just opened they're reluctant to invest in fresh steak, because around here, there probably won't be that much of a call for schwarma (or however it's spelled - I suspect it's phonetic) - and keeping a supply would be expensive, but starting with a crap product won't help build demand.

I think I'll invest a few more bucks and check out their lamb kebob, and the owner did ask for feedback, so I'll probably be nice and say I'd prefer it with lamb and more traditional spices. If the kebob sucks too, though, I don't think I'll waste any more time. A shame, because I'd love a good place near here.

[twenty4blackbirds]

6. small pieces of well-spice meat

Another thing my fav kebab/chwarma have in common is that the meat is in small pieces, which allow the spices to flavour all the way through.

I've not met a "steak bomb"; but I hear that the best thickness for meat pattie is actually rather thin. I recall a bad kebob/meat pieces on a stick. It was thick cubes, and the flavour didn't go all the way through the meat even though it was heavily spiced.

Thinking more about one of my favourite foods, lamb may not be vital - falafel and chicken is also on the menu list. I have kebab/chwarma not often enough, so I tend to go for my habits than to experiment :-)

Fresh ingredients make such a difference to flavour - then again, sauces can cover up so much.

maybe I can talk SO to visiting the chwarma shop tonight...

p.s. My Middle-East ex-colleague says kebab = chwarma = schwarma = any other phonetic spelling for the same food: bread wrap, filled with salad and other substantial filling.

[DrDan]

8. man . . . I love a good schwarma

lived in Saudi for 4 years . . . and just fell in love with them there. . .

have yet to have anything close since returning to the U.S.

Used to get them for 3 riyals - about 80 cents. The best place included a pickle and a french fry in with the meat, sauce, etc . . .