Regarding flour, water and oil

[Duer 157099]

While making pizza dough this weekend, the issue of when to incorporate the oil (if using) into the dough came to mind. I have read that it's best to let the flour hydrate fully before adding the oil, because otherwise you risk coating the glutenin and gliaden (the two subunits that together form gluten) with oil and interfere with their ability to develop gluten properly. First question would be whether this assumption is true. If true, then the next question would be: at what point then should the oil be added?

And another question would be: if making dough for pasta, how would you do things differently? Do you want good gluten development or not?

With pizza dough, the gluten development affects the chewiness, yes? With pasta dough, is chewiness what you want?

(I just got a pasta roller thing, so am planning to start playing with making fresh pasta, so am thinking about this)

[Stinky The Clown]

1. Pasta dough is far simpler than bread or pizza dough

It really is a paste.

I urge you to try this:

One cup of flour per one egg. A pinch of salt.

No oil.

Maybe some water, maybe more flour, depending on humidity.

Start with three cups of flour/three eggs.

Put the flour on a wood surface (or a large cutting board) and form a volcano-like mound. Break the eggs into a bowl and scramble them slightly with a fork. Put the eggs into the center of your volcano. Using the fork, begin to pull some of the flour into the eggs. Keep doing this until the egg is mostly incorporated, trying not to break the sides and let the egg run out. You may need to switch to your fingers.

When all flour is incorporated, knead the dough for maybe two or three minutes. You may need to add either flour or water, a little at a time, to adjust the dough. You want a dry, stiff, but smooth and silky dough.

Roll the dough into a ball and place an inverted bowl over it and let it rest for 30 minutes. Then divide the dough and do whatever you wish to do with it in your pasta roller/cutter/thingie.

I suggest you roll the dough through the roller at its widest setting a few times. I generally roll it through at least six times, folding it in half or thirds before each successive roll-through. This makes the pasta extra smooth and very silky. Some will tell you that you want the surface to be rather rough so it has a 'tooth' to hold sauce. That's true for dried pasta (pasta secca), maybe, but not for fresh (pasta fresca). Fresh is so tender that it absorbs sauce. Dried pasta does not. In Italy, the two kinds of pasta are considered different products. Similar. Related. But different.

By the way, I use half all purpose flour and half cake flour (yes, cake flour)

Edit: **Sometimes** I use half cake and half AP. Other times I use 2/3 AP and 1/3 cake. If I have King Arthur's AP, then it is half and half. For other AP, I use the 2/3 - 1/3. King Arthur's AP flour is a lot stronger than other brands.

[Duer 157099]

2. Thanks! Making some now

By the way, can those pasta roller thingies go in the dishwasher? Otherwise how in the world can you clean it?

It got this one at a thrift store (of course!) so no instructions or anything to indicate whether it's dishwasher safe (it's Atlas brand).

Also, can I cook the pasta without drying it? That's my plan anyway.

edit: found a nice link showing how to disassemble one of these, I hope I don't have to do this everytime though!

http://www.sculpey.com/Projects/projects_CleaningPastaMachines.htm

[Stinky The Clown]

3. Good God, No!

You really (trust me) do not have to clean it. And never, never, never, ever get it wet. It WILL rust. In a heartbeat.

Just dust it off when you're done and then wipe it off. Then just put it away. Whatever might happen to remain of your last batch will be very dry when you next use it. Maybe hit it with a toothpick or something if there are some stuck dried bits.

DO NOT GET IT WET.

And yes, you can cook the pasta right away. But I like to let it dry for about an hour before cooking it. It seems to be a bit more pleasingly al dente when it has just a bit of drying time.

DO NOT GET YOUR PASTA MACHINE WET.

I have never, never, ever found a need to dismantle one of these as your link shows.

Oh, and one other thing:

DO NOT GET YOUR PASTA MACHINE WET.

[Duer 157099]

4. HAH ooops too late!

At least I didn't put it in the dishwasher (yet - but I might have tonight).

Well, it's ok, because now I know how to take it apart so I can dry it off - since this was a thrift store item, I wanted to thoroughly clean it -- although after taking it apart, it was very clean, looks like it had been used maybe once.

And damn, I got a good workout cranking it! Is that normal? Or was I putting too much dough through, or the dough too dry, or too wet, or ??? man! my arm is going to hurt tomorrow

But it was good (the pasta). Very rustic because... well, never mind, it's too long a story.

People use these for polymer clay, so that what those sites are directed towards - I just didn't know if with pasta it was the same or what.

Maybe the screws are too tight or something, cuz it was HARD to crank, and that was #1 setting.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Something's maybe not right ......

It takes effort to crank when there's pasta in it. But it should be pretty free when empty.

But yes, overall, it is a LOT of cranking. I find it easiest with two people ..... one to feed and one to crank.

I bought a motor for mine.

But then I got the rollers that fit my Kitchenaid and that's what I now use. That's pretty much effortless.

[Warpy]

6. I do lazy pizza dough

I throw the liquids into the mixer and turn it on. Then I sift the dry stuff together on a piece of parchment (or newspaper if I can't find the parchment) and dump it in. I run the mixer until I see the gluten start to develop. Then I scrape the sides down, remove and scrape the blade and cover the bowl for the mess to rise.

Any old recipe will do. Olive oil in the dough really does give it better flavor and texture.