Oh my! What I did tonight... (new sourdough starter, new bread books!)

[housewolf]

Hanging out here in C&B, with all you new bread bakers/experimenters, has re-kindled my dormant interest and love of bread baking, and especially naturally leavened breads. I've been pulling out some of my beloved bread books lately, and reminiscing about "the good old days" when reading, learning, experimenting and playing with sourdough starters and breads was almost an obsession.

So what did I do???? First, I just got a new sourdough started up tonight! I haven't had one for a few years now... ever since I moved to Phoenix and couldn't get one to rise no matter how many different things I tried (it was the water there, I'm sure of it!). I stopped by New Seasons this evening and picked up some grains that I'll be needing and a few grapes to throw into the new starter, and it got inaugurated at right around midnight. Here's it's picture (below). The bubbles are just the result of its recent stirring. We'll see how it looks tomorrow, and I'll update here for those who are interested.

Then... I logged on to Amazon.com and ordered 3 new bread books!!!! Eeeeekkkk!!!! I ordered Peter Reinhart's whole grains bread book, Dan Leader's book on European artisan breads and ABin5. They'll be here Monday. I can't wait!

Here's some news - Peter Reinhart's new book coming out sometime soon is on "quick" artisan breads. He's all about pulling as much flavor as possible from wheat, so it should be a good one! Quite a departure from his "time = flavor" philosophy of "Crust & Crumb" and "The Bread Baker's Apprentice".

[troubleinwinter]

1. YIPPEEEEE!!!!!

and woohoo!

I'm in Prescott, and the Ain5 recipe said to use "spring water". I didn't even know what it meant at first, then bought a jug of bottled water, and used that the first time. The next few times I made a batch, I forgot to use the "store bought" and saw NO difference, so don't bother anymore. My dad lives here & just used tap, too. I talked to him about it, and he says we have good water here with very little chlorination (it tastes great). So have you done something about your water concern?

I knew Peter is scheduled to release his new book in the Fall. But I did NOT know the subject. I sure look foward to it! Thanks!

[NMDemDist2]

9. Prescott and PHX are totally different water

you get you're from the ground, PHX gets theirs from a canal that has traveled from Colorado somewhere

heavy chlorination is a must and it's evaporated or something and is hard as nails....

[troubleinwinter]

11. The canal runs from the Colorado River

south of Havasu, basically west to east (to Phoenix).

A year ago, I flew from Phoenix to Palm Springs over the desrt in a smallish plane. It was absolutely fascinating. The landscape looked like a science fiction prehistoric Mars. With a STRAIGHT line through it... the canal.

That canal runs hundreds of miles through blasting, blistering desert... just wide open.

My dad was telling me a couple of weeks ago, that during the Calif drought of '74, in northern Calif (where it isn't all that dry or hot), he had in previous years 'topped off' his pool about 20 times per season. So in '74 he got a pool cover and needed to top it only twice. EVAPORATION.

Here, we do not use any sprinklers (evaporation) after 8:00 a.m., only hand water or drip.

I flew to Mexico over the south end of the mighty Colorado River several years ago. The river does not even reach the Gulf of California any more as it naturally did. It ends in rank sand. It is sucked dry.

The canal should be covered.

Anyway, our water here is somewhat hard, from the minerals in the mountain aquifers, but it tastes delicious.

I rekon the idea in Ain5 book to use bottled spring water is well advised in some areas.

[hippywife]

2. Glad you're back at it again.

:hi:

[Shakespeare]

3. MWAHAHAHA!! You are powerless to resist the siren song of sourdough!!

Welcome back to the cult. :hi:

Spongebob is doing wonderfully these days--I've baked several loaves over the last 3 weeks with great success (and great flavor). I've decided he's a bit of a street thug, though--he had little interest in fancy bottled spring water and organic flour; he didn't really come out of his shell until I began using regular old all-purpose and (gasp--unfiltered!) tap water. Go figure.

I've been taking some pics; I'll get un-lazy sometime this weekend and post what I've been up to.

[Shakespeare]

4. P.S. PLEASE report back on how you like Reinhart's whole grains book.

I've come THIS close to buying it so many times that I've lost count. It's currently sitting in my shopping cart under "saved for later."

[Lucinda]

6. You would not believe how long my amazon wish list is.

:rofl:

[Lucinda]

5. WOOT!!! I look forward to watching your progress. And I cant wait for

Reinhart's new book. I was reading about it on his blog the other day. He is going to be needing recipe testers again soon too.

I wimped out and bought the King Arthur fresh sourdough starter the other day. It was in Virginia this morning about 2 am. I love the UPS package tracking. :D. Soooo.... I'll be baking sourdough soon too! I just thought I should see a good starter in person before I tried my own.

[wryter2000]

7. Wow

Those are some gorgeous yeasts you have there. :evilgrin:

Are you talking about Artisan Bread in Five Minutes? I've been doing that for a while now. It works quite well. I'm starting to think about branching out into some of the recipe variations.

[Inchworm]

8. Woohoo!

That's awesome!

I can't wait to absorb your knowledge :)

:woohoo:

[housewolf]

10. After 20 hours...

Here's the new starter after almost a full day of "sitting" and transforming itself. There is some separation going on, as expected. A few small bubbles have risen to the surrface and the main mass of the starter has a "pocketed" appearance that indicates good activity. It's odor is sort of like paste - stale flour and water odor. It's doing great, well on its way and I'm happy and excited! I haven't touched it yet in terms of either feeding it or stirring it, and I won't until the end of day 3.

My books have shipped and they should be here on Monday. Can't wait!!!!

[NMDemDist2]

12. nice!!! I keep making my Ain5 on top of the old batch

and it's getting that boozy yeasty smell to it and the flavor is AMAZING on generation 7

gen 8 has got 4.5 cups APF and 2 cups wheat flour, we'll see if I screwed up.....

[housewolf]

13. How much of that do you use to make a batch of dough?

and how big is that batch of dough that you make?

:hi:

[NMDemDist2]

14. the dough is 3 cups water, 6.5 cups flour, 1.5 TBSP each of salt and yeast

I put it right on top of the stuff left in the container that the old batch came out

there'll be some stuff on the sides and some dried stuff around the top

I mix it right in the same unwashed container and let it rise an hour or two, then back in the fridge it goes

It makes 3 smallish loaves or one big one with enough left over for a pizza :rofl:

[housewolf]

15. Starter, end of Day 2

The process continues... more separation, a few tiny bubbles, more "puddling" in the flour mass below the separated water. It's beginning to take on something of a fruity odor. No alcoholic odor yet. It's still just sitting, micro-organisims doing their work undisturbed - I haven't stirred it yet. That big "thing" in the middle is a bag of cheesecloth containg the crushed grapes. The bag is now inflated, blown up and puffy, which is what it is supposed to do, a positive sign that there is a fermentation process going on.

On to Day 3...

[Lucinda]

16. I saw a few videos and they smashed the grapes in directly

I like the cheesecloth idea much better.

It's looking scary, but good!
Do you let your's sit uncovered?

[housewolf]

18. I wrapped the grapes into the cheesecloth first

and then crushed them with my hands, allowing the juices to fall into the starter. Then I stirred the juices in and dropped the bag of grapes in and stirred it into the bottom. The fermentation caused the bag to inflate and rise upwards above the flour mixture. Today the puffiness of the bag is gone and it's sitting partially submerged, partially above the flour mixture.

I keep it covered... it's in a Rubbermaid plastic bowl with a snap-on lid. All the micro-organisms that I want are in the flour and grapes, so keeping it tightly covered keeps out any contaminating organisms.

[Lucinda]

20. I've seen a lot of references to removing a crust that forms with some starters

Have you ever tried any of those?

[housewolf]

21. No... I've always kept my starters in a batter-like consistency and tightly covered

in order to keep out other micro-organisms that could contaminate it, so there's not much of a chance for a crust to form. When I have an activated starter to work with, I keep it at a batter-like consistence (50% water & 50% flour by weight, not volume). It's a hydration that I'm very comfortable with because it develops intricately complex flavors without being super-sour. It's real convenient to scale recipes up and down because I always know how much water and flour I have in my starter. I have a dough-calculation spreadsheet that will take any recipe and scale it to any size I want based on either how much hydration I want or how much dough I want to end up with. That kind of thing is harder to figure out with a dough-like starter who's hydration changes as it dries out. (Speaking as one geek/breadhead to another!) :D

I know that some maintain a more dough-consistency starter that will tend to form a crust if it's not tightly well wrapped in plastic wrap to keep air away from it. But I like the batter-consistency starter because I find it more versatile and convenient. I can always turn some into a dough-consistency starter or a levain if I need to for a particular recipe. Bread made from a levain is wonderfully complex I I love it... but find it easy to make up a levain when I need one rather than to mainain one.

[Shakespeare]

17. I've never tried the grape method for starter, but I REALLY want to.

I'm enjoying your starter method (begun with rye flour) just fine, but when the organic table grapes start coming in at the farmers market here in July, I think I'll reserve a cluster and give that a shot.

I'm loving following your process. :hi:

[housewolf]

19. It will be an interesting experiment for you to see how the starters are different

This is a real different process, much slower than any other method I've used. I wish I had to way to type whatever micro-organisms are in there - that would be fascinating to know (speaking as a real geek of another sort :) !)

I used some organic red flame grapes, about 6 oz. They were big and solid and hard to crush so I probably didn't get as much juice out of them as I might have if they had been smaller or I was stronger :rofl: It's okay, though.

Thanks for being interested in what I'm doing... I'll keep posting as it progresses.



:hug:

[housewolf]

22. Starter, end of Day 3

Some slight changes from end of day 2. There's a deeper level of separation - about 3/8" deep now, and the liquid is a darker color.

The bag of grapes has risen up even more out of the flour batter and has lost its puffiness. The purple color is from the grapes. The indentations you see in the grape bag are from my fingertips checking the bag's puffiness.

There are still only a few bubbles but the ones I see are bigger than yesterday's.

It's much more difficult to see the flour mass below the separated liquid, but looking at it from the sides of the plastic bowl I can tell that it's showing more signes of fermentation with increased and deeper pock-marking top. In a few hours I'll stir and feed it for the first time and see what happens.

[housewolf]

23. Starter. Day 4

Here it is on Day 4, after being stirred and fed for the first time early this morning.

The batter is filled with a lot of small bubbles. The bag of grapes has re-inflated itself. It has a wonderful, fruity aroma.

Now it just sits and works until day 9 when it begins to be fed on a daily basis. I don't expect to see many changes during that time other than a layer of liquid separating out on top, perhaps darkening as the days go by. I'll probably post fewer pictures over the next few days since I don't expect to see much difference from day to day for the next 5 days or so.

[Lucinda]

24. beautiful! I'm really curious about the flavor this will add when you bake.

I've read a lot of great stuff about the grape starters.

[hippywife]

25. That is looking wonderful!

If you aren't careful, you'll have all of us making a starter! ;)

[housewolf]

26. how funny! I wrote you a somewhat long reply to this post

all about a passion for naturally leavened bread, and somehow it didn't post!

Now THAT's interesting! I don't think that's ever happened to me before on DU.

Oh well, maybe another time...

You're invited and more than welcome to take a detour on the sourdough path whenever you're ready...

[housewolf]

27. Starter pic, end of Day 7

Well, I just can't keep my hands out of the starter - I've stirred it several times including tonight. Doesn't look like there's much going on, does it? You can tell that the red-purple of the grapes is coloring the batter. It has had a wonderfully fruity aroma, now there's a hint of an alcohol-y scent along with the fruitiness. Before I stirred it there was a deep layer of dark-colored liquid separated out on top.

Since it hasn't been fed since Day 4, there's no visible activity. The microbes are just working, building themselves up in a way that is so-far invisible. I'll start feeding it on Day 9, 3 times a day for 5 days, and then it will be ready to bake with. When it starts getting regular infusions of flour it should start showing more activity.

There are much faster ways to start up a new starter but this one method results in bread that is wonderfully complex which is what I love. Starters can actually be made into bread after 3 days but they are pretty unstable at that time, and it really takes about 2 weeks of regular feeding for a starter to stabilize and create a consistent flavor. So it's an exercise in patience.

[housewolf]

28. Here are the missing pictures

I reorganized my PhotoBucket acounts, not realizing that doing so would make the pictures disappear here.

Here are all the missing pictures:

Birth of the new starter


End of day 1


End of day 2


End of day 3


End of day 4


End of day 7

[Lucinda]

29. Thankie!

:)

[housewolf]

30. Transformation into active starter

After 5 days of sitting, here's the starter with the grapes removed, stirred and I poured off all but 10 ounces. It's liquidy, still, pinkish-colored due to the grapes, smells fruity and a little alcohol-y. This is its picture just before its first feeding:





A couple hours after it's first feed:





I fed it 3 times over a 24hr period. Here it is in an activated state several hours after it's 3rd feeding:




I'll keep feeding it 3 times a day through day 14, and then it will be a stable, reliable starter - ready to bake with! The pink color is being diluted with each feeding so the starter is becoming more of a creamy color.

I'll add some bread pictures when I bake with it. It's fine right now for sourdough pancakes, waffles and things like that but I want it to be stable and matured somewhat before I try and raise and bake bread with it.

Thanks for following along this journey with me, it's been a slow journey of exploration and learning and soon I expect some wonderful bread out it! I can't wait to see how it bakes up!



:fistbump:

[hippywife]

31. Cool!

I was hoping there would be a great update. I think if I got one going really well, I would be afraid I would ruin it trying to make some bread. LOL

[housewolf]

32. Can't ruin it by making bread...

'cause (unless you're Lucinda's b-i-l), you don't use all of the starter in your bread dough. You use part/most of it to build your dough, and hold some back. The idea is that you maintain the starter by refreshing (feeding) it with water and flour on a regular basis. When you're preparing to make bread, use take some of the starter from the jar (sometimes referred to as the "mother" starter), and activate it (or build it) into a mix that provides the leavening for the bread.

Sourdough bread baking is a proess of experimentation, for sure. I usually recommend that new sourdough bakers work with a proven starter, because a proven starter will give you good results and increase your confidence, whereas a new starter may need a lot of work and experimentation to get to know the starter and its cycles so that you can achieve good results with it. 'Course, someone with a proven starter _could_ send you some... it's easy to put some in a zip lock bag and stick it in the mail. This time of year there's no problem with it being too hot, and the starter should arrive at your door in fine shape, ready to be fed and baked with in short order. :)