A question about waking up

[GliderGuider]

Waking up ("spiritually" speaking) is a process of self-digestion, during which we must unlearn all that is untrue about ourselves. True or false?

[Kookaburra]

1. That sounds right to me.

[I Have A Dream]

2. Yes, and about society in general. nt

[GliderGuider]

3. Another question - what's the point?

I mean, why wake up, especially if it's such a painful process and the whole world works just fine without it? What is it that drives some of us to try and do something so improbable and self-destructive?

I know I feel a clawing need to wake up, to confront Truth eye to I and call it a liar. I often wonder why? Any thoughts?

[I Have A Dream]

4. Well, I believe that ultimately we'll graduate from having to incarnate in this dimension.

The sooner the better to me. I don't want to keep repeating this dream state any longer than I have to. I want to be my true, fully-integrated self, as my soul actually is. I'm not sure that I'm describing this well... :(

[GliderGuider]

10. You're describing it just fine.

I suspect it's possible to fully integrate while one is still here - a few people have apparently done it. It sure would alleviate a lot of suffering, so that's what I'm shooting for. To quote Robert Browning, "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?"

[Kookaburra]

5. That's just it

The whole world does not work just fine as is. It's a mess -- a very large mess. We need to wake up to the truth, and shed light on the false.

[I Have A Dream]

7. Yeah, and we can't do anyone else's work for them...

no matter how much we want to. That's what makes it hard for me to think of all of this as a big picture approach. I personally feel that I can only do the best that I can and try to personally inspire as many people as possible to repeatedly choose love rather than fear. Of course, the key word here is "choose", which is what all of this is about, in my opinion. I feel that we were put in this free-will existence to gain wisdom to ultimately make this one choice.


(On edit: Just wanted to say that I'm not at all saying that we shouldn't try to make a difference in the world in bigger ways, especially where compassion and justice are involved. After thinking about it, I think that some of us are called to do the big-picture work, and other are to work one-on-one with others. I feel that I'm the latter. :) Thank you to those who work so effectively in the world. :loveya:)

[GliderGuider]

11. Jed McKenna says something interesting about this.

"Wake up first, with pure and unapologetic selfishness, or you're just another shipwreck victim floundering in the ocean and all the compassion in the world is of absolutely no use to the other victims floundering around you. Resolve your own situation first, and then maybe your compassion will translate into something of value to others. The simple fact is that you are of no use to anyone else if you're in the same situation they are."

The words sound terribly harsh and self-centered, but I sense a lot of truth in them. Part of me wants to follow a path with heart, part of me wants to follow a path of pure consciousness, part of me wants to get off paths altogether. As Nisargadatta says, "Love says 'I am everything'. Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows."

[I Have A Dream]

12. Yes, it's like the flight attendant telling adults to put on their...

own oxygen masks before putting on a child's. The adult might feel guilty to think of doing this, but they're of no use to the child if they pass out due to lack of oxygen.

[GliderGuider]

13. Eggzackly!

Perfect analogy. Thank you!

[GliderGuider]

8. There's an interesting paradox here

Yes, the world is "in a mess", I guess. I spent a lot of time screaming about that over the last half-dozen years. It's all over my web site - I say that my slogan from those days was, "Quick everyone, wake up and kiss your children goodbye!!!". But I've discovered that when one wakes up (even just a bit) the world doesn't look like "a mess" any more. After all, "mess" is a dualistic good/bad judgment. The world isn't fine, it isn't in a mess, it just IS WHAT IT IS.

And that makes it much harder to get worked up about the need to change things after one wakes up...

[Dora]

6. I don't understand something.

What do you mean by saying that you want to confront truth and call it a liar? And how is waking up self-destructive?

[GliderGuider]

9. Waking up is self-destructive because

In order to wake up one has to unhook all the egoic attachments that are at the root of our sense of self. If I am not a father, a teacher, a lover, a seeker, a friend or an enemy, ambitious or lazy, smart or stupid, if I am not what I do or what I feel or what I think, then "I" cease to exist. And that process of self-extinction is terribly painful -- at least to the ego that thinks that is what's happening to it.

"Confront Truth and call it a liar" is shorthand for "recognize that all the things I believe are true about this world and my existence in it are, from the awakened perspective, simply dreams and delusions."

[MagickMuffin]

14. Waking up doesn't have to be self-destructive because

Learning about your "ego" or your Soul Personality is something to contemplate and absorb the things you like about your ego and changing the part of the ego you don't like. The ego doesn't have to die, it has to be analyzed by each and everyone of us. No one else should do this for us. It is our responsibility to challenge our ego, to call it out when it is being less than tolerant of others, including ourselves. This is how we grow.

It's ALL about CHANGING the way we perceive ourselves and the world around us.

[I Have A Dream]

15. I completely agree for myself as well, MagickMuffin.

The ego has a purpose, and that is to take care of us. However, the ego should not be in control. The higher self should. The ego should be the servant of the higher self.

This is an ongoing process because we can find ourselves falling back into old patterns if we aren't vigilant, even if we have a rather cooperative ego. (It's my belief that some are more so than others.) The ego's like a small child; it needs to be given boundaries. The entire incarnated being is happier once the ego understands these boundaries and accepts them.

However, I have to say that it's possible that there could be souls who are more advanced than I am where this isn't applicable. This is just my experience and current understanding.

[MagickMuffin]

16. I believe the ego is a struggle for people no matter how advanced they might be ;=}

Everyone still has to keep it in check, otherwise it could take control without much effort. At least that's the way I see things.

When I attended the Mystical Weekend where we discussed the issue of ego. My interpretation was this: learn to meditate and communicate with the Master Within and ask the "Master" to help keep our ego in check. To let the Divine Spark within us to Shine a Light on the things we need to work on within ourselves. Ask the Master to help illuminate our Soul Personality in the Universal Consciousness, to bathe ourselves in this Light and become less dependent upon our egos.


Some people might find that hokey, but I found it very helpful and enlightening. I still need to continue to do my homework, as Dr Edwards kept referring to our continuing struggles for Enlightenment.

:hi:

[I Have A Dream]

17. We believe the same thing.

I only know what I know though; there's much that I don't, so I'm leaving room for what I don't know. :) I'm only stating my current level of understanding.

You're using the term "Master" in the same way that I'm using the term "higher self", I think. However, I believe that there are also ascended masters who can help with this as well, although they can't do our work for us. We personally have to master our own egos.

:hi:

[MagickMuffin]

18. "Know thyself"

Greek: γνῶθι σεαυτόν gnōthi seauton (also ... σαυτόν ... sauton with the ε contracted), was inscribed in the pronaos (forecourt) of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi.

This is an important part of Rosicrucian philosophy.

And yes you are correct in that the Master Within is the same as one's Higher Self. They are interchangeable. And yes, I believe that our Higher Self - Master Within are closer to the Ascended Masters then we are. That's one of the reasons of meditating to become closer to ALL the Masters. The one connected to us is the one we generally are in direct communication with, or so it seems. I'll keep working on getting a clear picture of it all.

[I Have A Dream]

19. Oh, and one more thing that just "came" to me.

The ego doesn't fight us nearly as much during this process once it realizes that we're not trying to destroy it. It's much more likely to cooperate with us once it knows that we consider it to be a valued member of the incarnated "team". It just can't be "team leader". :)

[GliderGuider]

23. What about the possibility that there's a level where there isn't even a team any more?

That seems to be a possibility according to Advaita and Buddhism (i.e. the state of samadhi), and the experiences produced by entheogens like with LSD, DMT, ayahuasca or salvia hint at it. I have even met a couple of people who may have been in such a state of abiding nondual awareness. They did have the appearance of not being very "worldly functional" in any classical sense, though. Such a state would probably be diagnosed as a clinical problem or even a mental illness if it occurred outside a safe setting like a monastery or a very supportive nondual community.

It strikes me that the process of getting to that point could involve some deeply fear-inducing experiences.

[I Have A Dream]

24. I'm completely open to such a possibility.

:)

What I am relating is only what I'm currently experiencing in my life. There's so much beyond my understanding. I'm happy to even be this far. I'm certainly not even close to being an advanced soul.

[bigmonkey]

28. Nice analogy!

We need the ego, it allows us to function in the world with the other egos. "We" just don't need to have it crowd out the other aspects of our being.

[Fire Walk With Me]

25. The more advanced the being, the more dangerous is any ego intrusion.

On its diminishment, I remember reading Yogananda having said "Yogananda died years ago", regarding his ego.

[GliderGuider]

26. One way to do an end-run around the ego

Is not to tell it you're getting rid of it. Just tell it, "Hey, I'm not killing you, I'm just waking up. No harm in waking up, is there?" If you say it with conviction, the ego usually says, "Oh, OK then. But if you need me, I'm always here." To which you say, "Thank you!" and go on with the business of waking up.

And a couple of years later all that's left are some tattered ego-shreds snoozing quietly in a corner. Oh sure, the monkey-mind comes back to life every once in a while and wants to fling some poop, but you just tell it, "Shh, we're just waking up here. There's no problem, nothing to do, you can go back to sleep if you like. Sweet dreams. What a good monkey."

Before you know it you're looking directly at the world all the time, not having to squint through a window smeared with monkey-poop.

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. Very well-said, and a chuckle as well :)

Yep, definitely the point of non-duality, to send love to everything no matter its nature.

[Fire Walk With Me]

20. Yes yes yes!

[BanzaiBonnie]

21. Nice

unlearn all that is untrue about ourselves. I like that.

And I like the self-digestion part too.

[GliderGuider]

22. I claim no originality in this.

I got the ideas from Jed McKenna's book, "Spiritual Enlightenment, The Damndest Thing". If you want the full meal deal, pick it up. You've never read a teacher like old Jed, guaranteed.