Question about how you envision business/organization structures

[OneGrassRoot]

This is such a wonderfully diverse group of people that I hope you don't mind me asking off-the-wall, non-ASAH type of questions periodically.

Of course, to me there is a spiritual basis to everything, even if I can't quite tap into exactly what it is at the time. ;)

I'd appreciate your thoughts about corporations, and specifically the current "non-profit" structure, and the best way to create a new venture.

I'm not asking about this from a tax perspective as to what's best for a venture in that regard (I know that's important, but I don't want to go there right now...lol).

Here's the deal: Wishadoo was created as a plain ole corporation (this was actually done during the time my father passed suddenly, so I wasn't involved with this aspect of things and just signed...that time period was a blur). Since then I have gone back and forth about making Wishadoo a non-profit.

Just because something is a non-profit, I'm NOT automatically filled with warm fuzzies. In fact, the abuse within the non-profit sector is, to me, just as pervasive as within traditional for-profit corporations.

These friggin labels turn me off altogether, but this is part of having to work within an existing system that I find so challenging.

I love cooperative approaches. Member-owned and employee-owned ventures...worker and marketing co-ops. When I think non-profit organization, I envision boards and limitations in order to maintain the coveted "nonprofit" status, and lots and lots and lots of red tape.

I am completely turned off.

I created a separate company a few months ago, as a new type of entity passed legislation here in NC: L3C, which is a hybrid of for-profit and non-profit, which is much more in alignment with social entrepreneurial ventures. It puts the social mission first, money second.

I like that. While we're still working within the current economic and monetary model, I don't want to appear altruistic in the sense that I don't intend to generate money with ventures. I absolutely do: for myself and as many others as I possibly can. The social mission and WAY of generating income however, is what is different.

Because I hope to generate cottage industries and such, the non-profit model doesn't feel right, along with the other discomforts about that model.

Quite a few people have said they aren't comfortable giving money to an organization that is "doing good" but isn't a non-profit 501(c)3.

I don't envision donations...I envision investments in Wishadoo, and am working on ways -- different levels of involvement -- for people to truly have a vested interest, even with less than $20.

Bottom line, here are my thought and feelings (which may be way off and that's why I'm asking for input):

If people only want to be involved with something that provides a write-off, that's not Wishadoo. It's not about write-offs, it's about opening the heart and creating a new way.

Maybe I'm being belligerent about not becoming a non-profit in order to weed out people who think that way? And I realize that could be seen as very limiting, but I do feel rather strongly about it.

What do you think? What is your gut reaction to the above, if any?

:)

On edit: For those interested in these types of things, there's also another new entity: There is a brand new thing called a B Corporation (also a social entrepreneurial type of vibe), only available in only a couple of states now, as well as the certification which birthed the concept: http://bcorporation.net/ I've written them to see how to get Wishadoo listed, although there are no employees or others involved as yet.

[OneGrassRoot]

1. A slogan....

(I've restrained my profanity so much since I've been on FB that I have to let it out somewhere...lol)

In response to the wealthier people, with resources, who require a write-off to do anything philanthropic, I think this slogan would be appropriate:


"F*ck the write-off. Do the right thing!!!"

:hippie:

[hermetic]

2. Well,

since my degree is in non-profit management, and I worked most of my life for a most excellent non-profit, I guess I should say something. But I have to keep it short. You don't need BoardS, you need A board. And you need a really good mission statement and everything you do must support it. But I've never heard of those other 2 types you mentioned, since my degree came from the 80s. They sound very interesting.

Non-profits have been hurting a lot, ever since the days of the evil dominion. And considering what may befall the country in the coming weeks, they may lose funding altogether, unless their mission statement has a wing nut reference in it.

Mostly I just wanted to tell you about a site I just found, I think you will find it very helpful.
http://sprouter.com/

:hug: and I hope I have time to chat more soon. Right now it's just balls to the wall, in a girly kind of way. :blush:

[OneGrassRoot]

3. Very cool....

:thumbsup:

Thanks for that link, and for your insight! I didn't know that was your background. See....what an amazing bunch of people.

Like most ideas, the original intention behind the nonprofit structure is wonderful, but it has been morphed (at least the impression some have of them) over time, enough so that simply being a nonprofit doesn't fill me with warm fuzzies.

Plus, there are a gazillion nonprofits.

I go back to my personal reasoning, which is that I don't want to be a nonprofit if the main reason to do so would be to alleviate others' fears who require a "write-off."

Good stuff...thanks SO much for chiming in.

:hug:

:loveya:


edit for clarity

[Celebration]

4. I see what you mean, but still

I, too, have worked extensively for a good non-profit. There are some abuses in non profits, but the good thing about them is that they require a lot of transparency. Yes, it is a pain to complete the Form 990s, but then the financial information in them (and it is good) is open to all--the highest salaries, the over the top donations, the business done with board members, etc.

Obviously, it is quite possible to run a regular corporation with more integrity than a non-profit. The problem is that it can't easily be documented by the general public. That is the reason, in addition to the write off, that some people draw a line in the sand on the 501c3 status. It comes down to trust, but verify, if you get the meaning.

I'm not familiar with the new type entity, so I won't comment on that. If it provides for the transparency of the non profits, then it might be a good option. The write off may not mean all that much for people who don't itemize on their returns.

Realistically speaking, if you ever want corporate donors, you are going to have to go 501c3.

Those are my thoughts.

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Interesting....

Thank you. :hug:

I even have a problem with the word "donor" -- I prefer investors, primarily truly grassroots investors, made up of people like myself who may be able to contribute $20 or less.

I also want to get away from this hierarchical involvement that is implied with these current structures.

I have my own biases here which are, admittedly, affecting how I view these entities.

That's why your thoughts are so appreciated.

:loveya:

Edit to add that the transparency aspect is very important. Thanks for mentioning that.

I think because my primary focus is a co-op structure, I need to learn what the best structure would be to implement that approach.

And, there could be divisions...with different structures for the different divisions, or different entities altogether (such as The Piece Process, which is an L3C and strategic partner for Wishadoo).

Hmmmmm......

[Dora]

6. Money is a tool. Business is a practice. I'm going corporate.

I considered non-profit status for my venture, and was strongly leaning that way until I realized that I wanted to profit from my idea. I believe that I can both profit myself and benefit a number of recipients. It was a real shift for me, because I've worked only in the NP sector for 20 years, and I continue to.

I think that business is a practice. If we engage in it mindfully, self-reflectively, and compassionately, everyone benefits. I believe that money is a tool that businesses use and it's a result of business endeavors. Money has no moral value in and of itself - it's how we get it, and what we do with it that contain value. Money does not corrupt. We corrupt ourselves by our attachments to wealth and power. If we can release ourselves of those attachments - become mindful - then we can protect ourself from corruption.


You might enjoy reading "The Diamond Cutter." It's the kind of book to mark up and dog-ear:
http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Cutter-Buddha-Managing-Business/dp/038552868X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288191083&sr=8-1

I've also been turned on to Seth Godin, and signed up for his blog mailing list:
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/
Seth has a couple of presentations up at TED.com

I think that kickstarter.com is interesting:
http://www.kickstarter.com/

I also recently met with a SCORE counselor; it was very helpful and I'll see him again soon. There might be a chapter in your area:
http://www.score.org/index.html

GOOD QUESTION!!! :)

[OneGrassRoot]

7. Yes, I agree....

It's primarily because I want FREEDOM to create initiatives and projects to benefit as many people as possible that I find the non-profit approach limiting (thanks...I wasn't plugging into that specific until your post)

I've loved Seth Godin for years; he actually answered my phone call a few years ago. I plan to get in touch with him again soon. :)

Ooooh, I'll check out that book!

LOVE Kickstarter. I actually envision a similar setup with a cooperative publishing company (books and music) idea.

The SCORE chapter here isn't very helpful; I've tried to benefit from their expertise throughout the years but they aren't very up on new media things in this area. :(

Thanks again!

:hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

8. You may want to look into the whole L3C and B-Corporation initiatives...

as I do think that's the wave of the future, but they're only available in a handful of states thus far.

There are LinkedIn groups and FB groups for both.

Having been in the nonprofit world, you'll understand the differences much better than I can.

:hi: