quick astrology re: The Candidates

[ccpup]

this will be a very quick Posting as DU has literally become a toxic place for me and I really don't want to open myself up to any more PMs accusing me of everything from being a corporate Hillary shill to a devil-worshiping idiot ... although I do appreciate the Valentine's Hearts. :-)

The difficulties Hillary is currently facing can be chalked up, in my view, to Transiting Chiron square her Venus -- which rules money as well as linking into her "like-ability" factor with the Voters -- as well as the very recent Transiting Jupiter square her Natal Neptune inhibiting her ability to move forward. Others will point to Tr. Neptune opposite her Saturn -- and that may have been a factor earlier as her long-time leads evaporated --, but it's a waning aspect now and not as "in play" as it would have been earlier. So, as Mercury turns direct in a week and Tr. Chiron moves away from her Venus, I suspect things will turn-around somewhat for her.

As for Barack, his chart is gearing up for a potentially nasty -- and I added "potentially" even though other astrological factors in his chart support the omission of the qualifier -- Saturn transit opposition his Natal Chiron (begins the 14th) with Transiting Chiron -- the one kicking the heck out of Hillary's Venus currently -- snapping over to begin it's own square to Barack's Ascendant before moving on to oppose his MC in mid-March. And this Mercury turning direct will also briefly meet Tr. Chiron to square his Ascendant the day after the March 4th Primary. Perhaps the message (Mercury and Ascendant) he intended to give will be at odds (square) with the results of the contest that day (Chiron)? Only time will tell.

Remember, as well, that Barack's recent wins have all been achieved under a Mercury Retrograde cycle. Is it possible -- and I ask this rhetorically because I'm truly curious as to how this might play out in the end -- that when Mercury turns direct, those that vote in March (under a Mercury direct cycle) may take another look at their options and, eschewing the previous month's history and trends, decide to make a different choice?

There must be some reason Barack's chart is indicating a sense of tension and "being blocked" through March (first a Saturn opposition to Chiron followed by an inconjunct -- a transit of frustration, tension and recalibration -- to his Secondary Progressed Moon and Secondary Progressed Chiron as well as Tr. Chiron to Ascendant), potentially derailing what looks like an "easy road" right now.

Add to that Mars (now direct) conjunct Hillary's Uranus -- which is linked to the US Moon by trine -- while it's inconjunct Barack's Saturn before moving on to square his Secondary Progressed Sun (and inconjunct his SP Jupiter) and then meeting Hillary's Natal Sun in a trine, and one could reasonably wonder what the bump in the road Barack's been knocked by as we move through March and Hillary seems to gain a sense of optimism and "ease" -- evidenced by the trine and the lack of "hard" or "difficult" aspects that Barack is receiving during this same time period.

I always said -- in earlier Threads -- that February is Barack's and March is Hillary's, so let's see how next month shapes up.

You're free to disagree, of course. But, if you decide to PM me, please be polite. Thank you.

[Matariki]

1. Thanks for the astrological analysis Ccpup

it's always interesting.

if you get inappropriate PMs you should forward them on to the moderators. it's the only way to keep this place civil.

[Bluestar]

2. CCPup--sorry you have received nasty PM's

I, for one, have thoroughly enjoyed your astrological analyses and look forward to your posts. So far, things have played out the way you predicted--guess we'll have to wait another month to find out, huh?

Please don't get discouraged by the impolite mail--the nastiness in GDP is bound to spill over into the smaller forums.

Thank you for your insight.

[Sanity Claws]

3. Thanks for the analysis

Like the others, I'm sorry you received unkind PMs. Please don't let that deter you from posting your analysis.

[mother earth]

4. Thanks, ccpup. I've been looking forward to your next insight.

I've thoroughly enjoyed them and have learned a little bit every time you've done them. Sorry that some have IM'd you with negatives. I was just thinking about you today and wondering when you would go a little further explaining the aspects coming into play.

It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[saracat]

5. Very interesting ccpup.

[okasha]

6. Very interesting, indeed, and rather encouraging.

Please do report the nasty PM's. The mods need to know that's happening.

[Cleita]

7. Sorry you are being harrassed. Don't get discouraged as

we value you here. Also, I was wondering if there are any influences coming up from the moon eclipse that is supposed to happen I think on the 20 and 21 of February?

[PinkTiger]

8. thanks! I appreciate the way you look at all this.

Pay no attention to the detractors. They are scum, I say. Absolute scum!!!

[I Have A Dream]

9. I'm so sorry that you've been receiving these PMs, ccpup.

If it continues, you can also put the person(s) on ignore so that they will no longer be able to do this. You have every right to protect yourself.

I'm pretty much staying apolitical in this forum, but I absolutely appreciate the effort that you're putting into the analyses that you're doing in these threads.

Please know that you are valued here -- please don't let these occurrences chase you away. It would be a serious loss for our group. :(

:hug:

[ccpup]

10. quick addition

I had failed to notice that transiting Neptune -- which has been eroding Hillary's authoritative (very Saturn) leads with his opposition to her Natal Saturn -- is clicking out of this aspect and into a quincunx (150 degrees or, as I called it earlier, an inconjunct) with Barack's Natal Mars, exact by two minutes on March 4th.

I get the sense (and please accept this is my own suspicion and you're more than welcome to respectfully disagree) that Barack's Leo Sun is beginning to buy the adulation, the success and the belief -- growing stronger with each win -- that he will definitely, no doubt about it be the next President. That's usually when Saturn steps up and smacks you awake with a ruler while taking away your toys. And that's basically what I'm seeing as February turns into March. His chart becomes a less-than-Happy Meal combo of square, quincunx and opposition and the now-speeding train to the Nomination is going to find itself losing some steam or hitting some bumps or coming up against a depressing road-block somewhere, somehow.

Hillary's chart, on the other hand, gets a break from that Neptune opposition to her Saturn and that Chiron to her Venus. That same Saturn in opposition with Barack's Chiron will then move over her MC -- a time of belt-tightening, consolidation and focus -- followed IMMEDIATELY by Mars trine her Natal Sun as that Saturn moves to trine her SP Sun before stationing 70 minutes from sextile her Natal Sun ... the same time he's stationed 1 degrees 39 minutes Barack's Natal Moon.

And what continues to fascinate me about astrology is the precise clockwork evident in transitions, progressions, etc.

The same day -- the SAME DAY -- Saturn leaves his visit with Hillary's MC and clicks over into his trine with her SP Sun, transiting Mars clicks over into his sextile with her Natal Sun. The same day (March 10th, a day before the March 11th Primary in Mississippi)!

No matter how long you look at the planets, they can still surprise you with their synchronicity.

edited to add: The Saturn station square Barack's Moon and sextile Hillary's Sun begins a week before the April 22nd Primary in Pennsylvania (the only Primary in April) and will be continuing all throughout the May Primaries which are the last primaries before the Convention in August. With that in mind -- and I'll expound on this in a future Thread --, I predict Hillary finds her footing in March, continues to chug-chug-chug through and consolidate it with the April 22nd Primary and then caps it off with the May Primaries.

I can't think of any other reason for the depression a Saturn square Moon would bring Barack during that sensitive time politically while, at the same time, supporting (through sextile and trine) Hillary's efforts to succeed.

[Flying Dream Blues]

11. Thanks, ccpup! Add me to the list of those who are really enjoying

your posts. You seem to be right on the money, and your analysis is very well-written!

And I also agree, please alert the mods to rude PMs.
:hug:

[ccpup]

12. you're very kind, but I've been wrong

I'll be the first to admit I underestimated the effect Neptune and transiting Chiron would have on Hillary during February.

In an earlier Thread I offered, I predicted her keeping a very slim delegate-lead through February and it looks as if I was wrong. Barack now has a slim delegate-lead and I trust we'll now start seeing the fighting, never surrender effects of her SP Moon currently square her SP Mars as well as Neptune leaving it's opp with her Saturn and square her Ascendant/Mercury and Chiron leaving her Venus as we head toward the 19th and into late February.

And, again, one can't underestimate the effects on Barack's chart as Neptune begins it's quincunx with his Natal Mars and transiting Chiron moves to square his Ascendant.

I'm learning from this as much as everyone else is, I suspect.

[liberalnurse]

13. Beautiful !

:loveya: :loveya: :grouphug: :thumbsup: O8)

[davsand]

14. Off topic, I know! Can I just tell you how much I love your sig line?

That cartoon makes me laugh every time I see it. I love it!


Laura

[liberalnurse]

15. Your so very welcome.

It fits "Me"... as I am fed-up with the corporate customer bedside manor/bottom line approach to health care and laughter is my friend.

It's a perfect signature for me. O8)

[Helga Scow Stern]

16. Excellent analysis. Thanks for the good work! And Pluto,

I keep wondering about all of the Pluto energy affecting Barack's Moon, Venus, Juno, and Mercury. So far it seems to have put him smack in the center of a collective wave of change. But when it goes retrograde in early April, it will be interesting to see what happens. Plus the lunar eclipse in his tenth house later this month around those same very early degrees is bringing some kind of reprogramming of his mandate.

[ccpup]

18. interesting that you mention Pluto

because I haven't been including him too much in my analysis. As I'm focusing one month at a time per the Primary Season, I tend to zero in on the faster moving heavy-weight planets like Saturn than I do the slower outer planets -- unless they're directly contacting by conjunction or opposition, sextile, square or trine a planet or progressed planet.

Pluto was directly quincunx Barack's Moon on the day of the SC Primary -- the tension of the aspect being manifested, I believe, in the overblown energy of the campaigning -- and will be past an exact sextile to his Jupiter by March 4th. It will then move on to station opposite his Venus and quincunx his Mercury before retrograding and hitting his Moon and Jupiter again in late May/early June. Pluto is trine Barack's SP Uranus August and into early September, but twenty one minutes from being exact before turning and moving direct again.

Hillary's first Pluto contact comes this April when he stations 22 minutes from exact semi-sextile her SP Venus and Solar Arc Jupiter (currently conjunct and square or = her Natal Sun) and 1 degrees 10 minutes from a sextile with her Natal Sun. The first brush of a potentially important sextile to come.

Jumping W-A-Y ahead, it is interesting to me that Pluto returns to that sextile with her Natal Sun and SP Venus (and Solar Arc Jupiter) by semi-sextile two days after Inauguration Day becoming EXACTLY sextile her Natal Sun in late-January. Isn't that when the President makes his or her State of the Union? This Saturn is also sextile her SP MC which will be conjunct her natal Mercury/Ascendant beginning in December. Before that -- on Election Day -- Pluto's conjunct her SP Mercury (8 minutes from exact).

Also, on Inauguration Day, transiting Saturn -- in a retrograde phase -- is exactly sextile (within a minute!) her Mercury/Ascendant conjunction, having first met them in the direct phase during mid-December.

For Barack, on Election Day I don't see Pluto making any contacts of note and on Inauguration Day, he's once again quincunx Barack's Mercury (eight minutes past exact) and opposite his Venus (28 minutes past exact). And Saturn has been toying with his Mars, but hasn't yet met it by conjunction and doesn't do so briefly until August 2009.

Again, this is all jumping WAY ahead, but I thought you'd appreciate the info. Just wait until I get into Secondary Progressions and contacts with the US Chart on Election Day and Inauguration Day! But that'll probably wait until the Nominee is decided.

[Helga Scow Stern]

22. Yes, the SC primary was very Pluto-like:

that was when the intense wave, whatever it is, really became evident. That was when the race card was played and an alliance based on polarizing with the Clintons first came in most powerfully. It felt like a manipulation. People's minds were changed overnight by the use of what Bill Clinton supposedly said, according to some African American friends. Suddenly a kind of frenzy developed, and emails were flying back and forth about the racist Clintons and in an instant minds were made up to support Barack, with an intensity that hadn't been there before. As one friend put it, suddenly she was "possessed," and filled with a venom for the Clintons she'd never felt before.

On February 19, Pluto moves up to exact square to Barack's Juno, which may alienate him with women, and even with the office of the presidency itself, which is represented by Juno in the 10th house of the US chart. (We feel so strongly about the presidency because it is like a marriage, filled with the hope that the new groom or bride will heal the wounds of the past and bring a brand new future -- Juno in Libra opposite Chiron in Aries in the 4th house.) Underhanded attacks by the Obama campaign against Hillary (who is also a Juno figure, being known as a wife) may increase, such as the one just revealed as Obama campaign secret strategies were made public on Huff Post. (The thing with Pluto is that whatever it does behind the scenes, it can't stay hidden.) One has to wonder too, with Juno and Venus under siege by Pluto, how Barack's marriage is holding up.

It's also of interest that in Barack's chart relocated to D.C., Pluto has just gone into the 12th house, suggesting that either he's caught up in a wave of change bigger than he is, and/or that there is some behind the scenes heavy-handedness, which will be revealed later if that's the case, as Pluto will revisit these points and there are many places in his chart that will bring forward whatever he's been doing in secret, as well as the truth of whom he truly serves.

I do get the sense that Obama is being genuinely transformed as Pluto moves into Capricorn, almost in spite of himself. What remains to be seen is if he can go all the way through, accepting true humility and purification of his motives. If not, he will fall.

[ccpup]

23. but he IS a Leo, after all

and having met him a few times in LA at one of those "Hollywood Parties" I often find myself invited to, he did seem to be soaking up the attention, adulation, kudos, whatever. Even made a joke about being a Hollywood Star at one point. (side note: not many at the party were impressed with him. found him charming and funny, but those are a dime-a-dozen in our business and, besides, they were looking for substance on issues and instead got funny stories, promises to "change the tone in Washington" and a big smile)

One other element not mentioned yet is that Transiting Chiron was in opposition to Hillary's Pluto/Mars conjunction just days -- as in two days -- before the SC Primary. So, the two week period leading up to the Primary was shadowed by that wounding Chiron and he certainly wounded her over-aggression, one could say.

And with Chiron finally leaving the square to her Venus in seven days, she'll have finished a series of difficult transits with the little bugger: Chiron square her Natal Chiron, Chiron opposite her Pluto/Mars, Chiron square her Venus.

But as he leaves her Venus he'll be starting his journey with Barack's Ascendant (square) and then his MC (opposition), all while Saturn meets first his Natal Chiron (opposition), then his SP Moon and SP Chiron (quincunx and opposition) and then a station 1 degrees 39 minutes -- which one astrologer I know has insisted is "way too far away to be of consequence; he won't feel it at all" -- from a square with his Natal Moon ... for six long weeks. It may be important to know this astrologer loves Obama and is pulling for him to get the nomination, even to the point of "not noticing" favorable transits for Hillary and ignoring or discounting potentially problematic transits for Barack.

Tell me: am I crazy to think these upcoming Saturn and Chiron transits might slow -- or completely derail -- the momentum he's gained during this Mercury retrograde phase? I'm sincerely curious as to what I might be missing.

[Helga Scow Stern]

25. I agree,

Saturn transiting over his Pluto-Chiron opposition is likely to revisit a bad decision made the first time it passed, perhaps related to funding, on the cusps of 2nd and 8th houses of D.C. chart relocation. It may not be cleared up until the third transit after Saturn goes direct.

The only thing I can think of that might be a factor about Saturn going back over the Pluto-Chiron opposition is that it might force him to really re-examine his financial ties. The Chiron contacts to his asc and mc I see as less of a problem, but more indicative of a major reorientation of his identity and purpose.

I also agree that things should go much smoother for Hillary once Chiron moves on. What a beating that must have inflicted, with the solar eclipse there too.

That lunar eclipse within minutes of the Saturn station in May is a big deal. Obama has so many points in the first 2 degrees that it is bound to have an effect, but it might not be so much a downfall as a real change within him. That would be my most optimistic assessment, and any real transformation within him would have to be evidenced by obvious and genuine humility. The south node approaching his north node Uranus conjunction might also bring about some loss of unchallenged popularity.

Because I don't see him losing out in his Vedic chart, I have this theory about these hard aspects manifesting as change within him. But then I am always a huge cheerleader for the human spirit. And Pluto is so upon him in so many ways as it goes into the sign where it was when this country came into being, that I think that in spite of himself, he may be swept up in a revolutionary current that will direct his course whether he wants it to or not.

And Hillary too. I think the adversity between them could be serving a greater purpose in hammering out what is truly best for the country.

We'll see, and I appreciate your astute observations.

[ccpup]

26. one more thing to consider

-- and I do so appreciate the conversation we're having. Embodies the best of what DU can be --

With Oprah now back in the race supporting Barack, I thought I’d take a look at her chart after the Primaries in March, around the Convention, Election Day and Inauguration Day.

After the Primary in Mississippi on March 11th, Tr. Neptune is 5 minutes from an exact opposition with her SP Pluto and approaching a square with her Natal Mars (though sextile her SP Mars) and Tr. Saturn has just squeaked by from a square with her Natal Moon and is in a quincunx with her SP Sun.

After the Primary on April 22nd, Tr. Neptune now sits in a square with her Mars (before moving to opp her Natal Pluto) and SP Venus is 3 minutes from an exact sextile with her Natal Jupiter.

In the two weeks leading up to the Convention, Tr. Saturn inconjuncts her Sun/Venus conjunction and is sextile her Saturn and Tr. Neptune is back to an opp with her SP Pluto and sextile her SP Mars. During August, though, she does have SP Moon trine her SP Sun.

Right before Election Day, Tr. Mercury is conjunct her Neptune, but on Election Day, Tr. Saturn just begins his quincunx with her Natal Mercury.

And in mid-December Tr. Neptune hovers opposite her SP Pluto and then, during Inauguration, begins yet another square to her Natal Mars. And Tr. Saturn sits within one degree and two minutes of squaring her SP Mars.

And during all of this SP Venus inches closer to an opp with her MC, 7 minutes past exact on Inauguration Day.

Just thought you guys might find it of interest.

[Bluestar]

27. Hi ccpup--can you please interpret what this means for Oprah?

I am so enjoying your analysis and your conversation with OjaiPerson, but I am not an astrologer and I'm totally lost with this information--can you tell us what it means?

Thanks!

[ccpup]

28. sure

Neptune transits -- especially the "hard" ones eg. oppositions, squares, quincunx -- tend to bring a sense of disappointment or loss due to the eroding of a dream. Well, Neptune transits aren't always that cut-and-dry, but a good opportunity to see Neptune in action is to watch -- from January until now -- the subtle shifting and eroding of what were once solid leads for Hillary Clinton as Neptune traveled opposite her Saturn and square her Mercury/Ascendant.

And so with Neptune hitting Oprah's chart in March by opposition and square, I would anticipate her not feeling as celebratory as one should feel if her candidate were doing well. Especially when this same Neptune -- in opposition to her SP Pluto indicating Neptune's working "against", by opposition, her efforts to step into a new aspect of her Power (Pluto) -- is also in a tense aspect with Barack's Mars. Fascinating that Neptune is touching BOTH Barack's and Oprah's Mars by tense aspect at the same time (one by square, the other by quincunx). And, as Mars indicates one's energy to move forward (I'm being horribly Dell Horoscope about this, I know), to be receiving a tense aspect from Neptune may indicate an eroding of one's past actions or maybe an indication that one's PRESENT actions are being stalled somewhat. Remember, Barack's February success was all accomplished during a Mercury Retrograde. I'm curious to see how voters decide when Mercury moves Direct, as he's doing in three days.

With Transiting Saturn in a square with her Moon -- an aspect that precedes Barack's own upcoming transiting Saturn station square his Natal Moon from April through May -- during the March 4th Primaries, I'm not sure ... well, it's not as cut-and-dry to say she's not pleased, but at a time like that I don't know if I'd want Mr. Taskmaster Don't-Get-Too-Full-of-Yourself Saturn square anything as sensitive as my Moon. In fact, I'd rather have him sextile my Sun (as Hillary will have during the time he's square Barack's Moon).

To make a long story short, the gist of what I offered with Oprah's chart is that, on days when one could reasonably expect her to be celebrating if Barack had done well, she's being visited by "hard" aspects from Neptune and Saturn to sensitive spots such as her Moon (her emotions), her Mercury (how she communicates) and her Mars (energy to move forward). Perhaps these aspects will manifest in her life a different way completely irrespective of his campaign, but I did find the synchronicity of the transits and the days they click into effect fascinating.

[Bluestar]

29. Thanks so much!

:hi: I, too, was following the astrology board with all the Obama fans, and it just got too depressing. Thanks for a different perspective!

[Lucinda]

17. Thanks for sharing all the work with us. I have a question...

Have you looked at Edwards in Feb-March? Just curious to hear if you have, and what it shows..

Luc

[ccpup]

19. yeah

the only thing I really noticed was, after Mercury turns Direct, he gets a Mars Return (when Mars is conjunct his Natal Mars) around the last week of February meaning he's fired up and excited and energized and involved in something at that time.

Interestingly, although he and Barack have a wide trine between Barack's Moon and Edwards' Moon/Jupiter conjunction (muted a bit perhaps by that same Moon square Edwards' Venus) showing an ability to connect and maybe dream (very Jupiter/Moon) together, I suspect he has doubts -- evidenced by Barack's Pluto square Edwards' Jupiter/Moon and Barack's Saturn quincunx Edwards' Pluto -- about Barack's ability to actually ACCOMPLISH or have the STRENGTH (Pluto and Saturn) to achieve what he talks a lot about (Barack's Jupiter trine Edwards' Moon). And I don't know if Edwards, with his Jupiter/Moon quincunx Obama's Neptune, is necessarily going to fall under Barack's Neptune "let's all work together" spell. He has doubts about the validity of that.

With Hillary, though, he certainly doesn't want to hang out with her and be her friend (his Sun square her Moon, her Sun widely quincunx his Jupiter/Moon and her Sun opposite by two degrees his Venus).

But with her Saturn conjunct his Pluto -- putting form, backbone and experience (Saturn) to his desire for change (Pluto) -- as well as tightly sextile his Neptune/Saturn conjunction (more support for the change he dreams of - Neptune/Saturn) as well as her Mercury/Ascendant square his Pluto (disagreements on how to "sell" this change, perhaps) and semi-sextile his Neptune/Saturn, there could be a successful working relationship because (with Saturn conjunct Pluto) he respects her strength.

Furthermore, her Pluto/Mars conjunction is in a wide (two degrees) semi-sextile with his Uranus and a wide (5 degrees) sextile with his Sun.

Also, with her Saturn sitting with his Pluto, he has no concerns about her strength, fortitude or ability to work hard whereas, with the squares and quincunx between the two planets in Barack and Edwards charts, I trust he does have worries about Barack's strength and ability to effectively wield power.

Anyway, just thought I'd add my two cents for what it's worth.

[saracat]

20. Excellent ccpup. Very good analysis! Thank you!

[Lucinda]

21. Thanks! Appreciate it. I just feel something click when I

think of Hillary and Edwards working together. If I'm right, your Mars Return may bring forward movement on an alliance between the two.

Or I may just be wrong. :)

[mother earth]

30. I am SO glad I ck'd in today to read all of this. I cannot believe

the indepth way you have looked at all of this. I thank you for explaining all of this so well. I have to confess that since Edwards suspended, I've been hopeful and waiting to see who he would support. I have had a very hard time wrapping myself in the Obama wave. I have tried and tried to see what exactly is so energizing about him and I confess I do not see it.

I think with all the clean up that has to be done, and because of the dire economy, Hillary's strength is going to be what we need. In the end I'm more inclined to go with her only because I know she is hardnosed and can get serious.

I have every faith in JE and I truly believe if and when he endorses, it's going to be because he believes it's the right choice. I'll go with John.

Thanks for this info.

[elleng]

24. Hey cpup, good to see you.

I've been out of town. Sorry to hear of your grief.

As I recall some time ago, you said you were thinking about General Clark. Anything?

Thanks.