What is the real deal with Gratitude?

[Why Syzygy]

Without getting into my childhood, which is always a temptation, let me just say, I was not taught "Gratitude" AT ALL in my home. That changed years later when I was involved in a 12 Step group which emphasized Gratitude at every opportunity. I really don't know why it was so important. I don't know if I never knew or just forgot. But, I learned it. I liked it because it felt good.

Then the LOA teachings tell us that it won't even work without "Gratitude". But, according to my anecdotal evidence, it backfires. It works in reverse! The most marked example is a car I used to have and one day while driving across Dallas after a job interview, a feeling of great gratitude for my wheels came over me. The VERY NEXT DAY, I had an accident caused by another driver which totaled my car. There are other examples which seem to prove that whatever I am most grateful for is what I absolutely lose.

I've been pondering this. I remember a movie we watched when I was a child. What I remember is it was about a woman who was pretending to be cripple in a wheel chair. At the end of the movie, she fell down the stairs and became crippled. I didn't understand and asked my mother about it. She told me that it showed that when we pretend to be something, it might come true..or some such. Somehow she transmitted to me that if I loved anything or felt proud of anything, it would be taken away. I never wanted to admire my looks. When I look at old pictures, I am astounded at how pretty I was. My son even says, "Mom you were hot". :blush: I was afraid that if I was pretty, I would be in a terrible accident which would scar me forever.

So, is my subconscious programmed backwards?
If it is, LOA can't help me because if I'm grateful, I'll just lose more.
I'm very confused by this. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

[I Have A Dream]

1. I have had similar things happen to me, vsm.

One example was the situation where, out of the blue, the thought popped into my head that it had been a really long time long since I had been involved in an accident and how lucky I was because of it. Within 24 hours, I was in an accident. I took it as the Universe making sure that I was in the right space so that when the accident happened, I was able to look at it in the right light. I felt as though it had prepared me to deal with it more easily. I've had other things like that happen. I wasn't actively practicing gratitude though since it just "came" to me, so I might feel more weird about practicing gratitude if that were what happened after having done it.

[Why Syzygy]

6. If it prepared you to deal

with the accident in a better space, that would be a good thing.

This may be just another form of the "why me why this" game.
There are no real answers.

[Celebration]

2. After I reread Pollyanna

I'll get back to ya!

Really, to me gratitude is just a practice to change those whose glass is always half empty to being among those whose glass is half full.

People who have an appreciation for their own lives just tend to attract people and events that continue to enhance it. Negative people do just the opposite.

I don't tend to look at it as being something as specific as you state. I am not sure if the universe works in such a specific way with regard to the practice of gratitude. It is possilble that it does, though. If so, perhaps when you practiced the gratitude, you were "switched." I have no great definition of being "switched" except when a person is switched, the energy in a person is upside down and inside out, so to speak. I can muscle test for it. There are lots of ways to get unswitched--a little yoga, for instance.

Or, according to a workshop that I attended, say "I accept all the blessings and healing of the color purple."

Or, the spice bottle on the head, that I have posted here several times, will correct someone from being "switched."

[Why Syzygy]

7. I don't know if I was "switched" or not.

I wasn't much into consciously reading energy in those days. I know I was PUMPED because it was the very job I had determined to have. And even though it was quite a commute, I had my trusty little car to take me! I was happy. This was a point in time, after having just lost my dad, shortly after losing a 13 year marriage, and I was constructing a completely new life. .. I had something else but my brain is on a slippering slope right now. I'll come back to it if it comes back.

Thank you for your comments.

[Celebration]

19. interesting replies here

Another thing you might consider here is old fashioned statistics. A lot of this "energy stuff" really just moves the averages around. You still get the data points that aren't on the curves. So, while the practice of gratitude has overall positive effects, it isn't an inoculation against future negative events. Yes, the practice of gratitude enhances your life, but, no, you can't use it as a foolproof insurance policy.

[Why Syzygy]

24. Ah. Statistics.

Of course. My reaction to the accident was profound sadness and loss of self worth. I felt I must be wearing a sign that said, "hit me". All my fault, even though legally, the accident was caused by the driver who hit me. That's not a pretty place. I was not too far away from the nastiness at my mother's. Dealing with her always gave me a sense of futility. My 'attitude of gratitude' did not extend to the wreck. I guess my tattered self image habitually looks for verification that I am indeed a failure. ugh

[lildreamer316]

8. Actually, I think you are right, and I think also..

that maybe we are not supposed to be specific at all.

In other words, when I find my life going the best, is when I am not being specific at all.
I don't find that this applies to being grateful for the ppl in my life, and the love we share. Other than that, however, I mostly avoid being specifically grateful for particular situations or things, UNLESS the Universe makes a point of bringing them to my attention by, say, working out a situation I had been (needlessly) worried about.

I hope that makes some kind of sense. But I have certainly experienced what the OP is talking about. I couldn't tell you what started happening to change that happening to me consistently. I'll have to think about it. But I think what you've said here has a lot of truth to it.

Some things to think about. I have the feeling it's a simple answer staring us in the face.

[Why Syzygy]

12. I hope you do ..

think about it more and share any further thoughts. I know you have made remarkable strides in the past year! You must be doing something right!

I don't understand about not being specific, though. Read my shell story below. Looks pretty specific.

With my present car, I just tell her I love her every day. She did get a bang in November, and I feel terrible that happened to her. I should take better care of her. My dad spoiled us by always taking care of the cars. I miss him. Maybe this has something to do with timing too. For the past nine years, I have been getting depressed about this time. He died on March 8th, 1998. I don't feel the same depression coming on. This is something new.

Along these same lines, I believe that the reason my marriage broke up was because I failed to appreciate what I had. Wow. I dreamed of my ex last night. We always get back together. It used to be an every night thing, until I realized he represented something about myself that I lost. Need to do some more thinking on that.

Thank you, lil'D for your insight. Please add if you come up with something more.

[lildreamer316]

31. A possibility.

I'll have to add more as it comes to me, so forgive me if this ends up disjointed/many posts.

What I mean is, concentrate on being "in the flow" in general, when specifics cause you problems.

Maybe don't worry about getting that parking space, but know that it will be there because you are in the flow.

When you recognize a time when you are in the flow, remember how that feels, and try to get back there.

Disengage from the intensity of what you need & want, and just kinda breathe with it. I know that's overused and oversimplified, but i can't seem to make it any clearer atm.

I will come back to this....

[Why Syzygy]

41. I think I know.

This came to me yesterday while driving.

I think what you and Dover are talking about is "Leading with the Heart".
I heard that somewhere and didn't really understand it. I think I almost do.

Is that it?

[Dover]

3. Hi Votes

Sounds more like it has to do with self love and worthiness issues, rather than gratitude.
Maybe som guilt at feeling loved or wanting something too much and any expressions of joy.

When I experience gratitude my heart swells with love. It's not so much a practice, although when I'm not feeling like that about life it usually is because I've allowed negativity to get a foothold and some 'poor me' mindset. Gratitude comes from and is received in the heart. And one has to really see the divine in what they are grateful for.

When I was a kid I rarely felt 'seen' for who I really was. I was seen in my various life roles, my parent's kid, the student, etc. but I wasn't really seen. So throughout my life, when I have felt someone really saw ME and the divine in me I felt truly loved. And it is the same when I see others or something in nature or a gift I've been given...'they' know they've been seen by me. So when I am grateful for this relationship, or that tree in my yard...I have usually made an effort to 'see' it, and in seeing it can't help but feel grateful.

[Why Syzygy]

11. You reminded me of something.

The car incident happened after I had spent time in the groups talking and hearing about Gratitude ad infinitum. So feeling grateful was a habit I had acquired. I still have my gratitude book from that time and it is filled with the names of people. I had very little in the way of material things.

It was also during the same time span that I was again getting my toes wet in manifestation. I love to tell this story. If you've heard it, please forgive. I was living in a *shabby* little apartment. I happened to love it because it was in an old house and had a non working fire place, shelfs, windows from floor to ceiling all around the room, and it was on 4th Avenue, one of my favorite numbers. My bf came from Vegas. He hated it. He thought it was a dump. Ironically, when I met him he was living in a REAL dump. nuther story .. I started putting pictures up of things I would like to do or have. I was starting from scratch. One was a picture of a white beach. I said to bf, "wouldn't it be wonderful to be on that beach, picking up shells". A couple days later I was cleaning out the flower beds and something caught my attention. It seemed to be where someone dumped an aquarium, and there were several small shells. I cleaned them up and put them in a jar. Shortly after, we moved to a nice, big, wonderful house. Talk about GRATITUDE! I literally cried when we moved in there because it had the small appliances I needed and lots of miscellaneous furniture and goodies that were mine to keep or discard. Among the treasures were jars and jars of shells. One huge jar was full of small to large shells. I took the small ones and lined the front walk way! The Universe focused in on "Shells", and delivered big time.

And there are the worthiness and self love issues too. Always. What do you suggest for that?

Dover, thank you for your reply.

[Dover]

14. I love that story!

And it seems to smash your theory about gratitude backfiring too.

You actually experienced and felt that beach and saw what you would do on it. That begins to focus the mind AND the heart at a feeling level to draw it to you. That magnetic energy that draws it toward you is, I believe, heart energy. So if the intent of the desire is based on something negative such as greed or something unhealthy, then it wouldn't pass through that heart filter and therefore wouldn't have that magnetic energy to attract.
That open space of the beach also manifested in a more spacious house. And of course house/shell are symbolically/metaphorically linked.
I've read that when some tribe of native Americans needed rain they created a circle and stepped inside and their prayer was in the form of feeling the rain, smelling it and in a sense embodying it.
That is what I was trying to describe as regards 'seeing' something as well as being seen. Recognizing its divine source and energy and becoming one with it. That is not a mind game. You cannot remove the heart in the equation or fake it. I think that is where the gratitude practices can and do very often fail.

So what might I do about worthiness and self love issues? Well, can you see and feel the divine within you? Does your heart feel full with love for yourself? If not, what makes that difficult?

I have a story too. Actually a dream from some years back:

One night I levitated up off the ground and my spirit began to soar high beyond the trees. At first I was thrilled and excited but then became frightened that I would never be able to get back. So I focused all my energy trying to descend even if the eventual crash to earth would mean my death (which I assumed it would). So there I was falling fast, closing my eyes preparing for the end. But nothing happened. I blinked and realized I was on the ground but unhurt. I began to dance and leap in the air, giddy and joyful realizing that I had it in me to soar like an eagle and I could also return to earth. So there in the night I danced around, frolicking and full of joy, leaping very high in the air using my new powers.... when suddenly someone shone a flashlight on me. I was like a deer in the headlights. My immediate response was embarrassment and real fear that this would be seen in a very negative light...all that joyful abandon, that freedom, I felt was being judged negatively and would not be permitted. So instead of claiming this newfound joy I just made a statement out loud of denial and slinked away.

When I awoke from this dream I was very disappointed in myself, realizing it was I who shone that light on myself. I had felt free in the darkness (unconscious) from prying eyes and judgment. There's lots to think about in that dream, but my point is that the part of me that was witness to this beautiful event was judging and not willing to recognize the divine in me. And I was also afraid of its power.

Was this joyless script derived from childhood? Some of it was, but perhaps I brought some with me into the world as well. Regardless, change can begin immediately in the present. So this is how I began to develop that worthiness and self love -
I figuratively stood in that circle like the native americans did and became my own parent/loving guide to my child. In different situations I would check in with that loving entity and say, well I've just wrecked my car, or I've just gotten this award or whatever was going on and embody that loving parent energy in responding to that child.

So how might you let the child know that they are truly seen and worthy of love and having things in your life that you love?

[Why Syzygy]

15. Excellent!

I, too, have read about the NAs Shamanic practices. I never thought of applying them to these situations! I admit I'm not into a fully loving mode concerning myself. It's improved. Getting stronger. I will definitely try the circle.

When I was first *taught* to parent myself, I was stumped. Even though I've been a parent, I felt unqualified.

Your dream made me sad too. You have excellent insight and reaction to it.

I love stories. I had a dream too, which explains a lot of the trouble I have in this area.
It was the first time I tried Zen meditation. I was just watching my thoughts come and go and fell asleep.

It was almost an awake dream. It didn't feel like usual night dreaming. I was in a house with a group of people. It was pure chaos. There was one girl who was acting out, throwing fits. Somehow I knew it was my responsibility to bring some order to the situation. I tried to sit her on the sofa, but she slid off. I turned my attention to the radio playing. I didn't like the music. When I tried to change the station, the dial broke. I got some tape. One young boy was trying to fix it with a hammer and nails. There was an older woman there who was just watching. There was a young woman with white hair and those old granny style tinted glasses. She was just mellow. I had been reading a book about this meditation and it was specifically aimed at finding that one voice amid all the chatter who can get control and govern all the other voices. I thought, this is the one who has to be in charge. She was the only one not causing problems. As soon as I got the radio changed, the old woman who had been watching changed it back! When I dreamed about my ex-bf, he was always very apathetic. He was in this dream too, playing the usual part. He represented "apathy" for me. What does that tell you?

Since I've learned all this, it seems like my mental battle has intensified. I'm going to get in the circle :D After these experiences, I also believe dreams consist of my inner voices (thoughts).

Shortly after I had another dream. A boy was throwing bricks at the windows in my 2 story house. I went down and asked him why. A policewoman came and took him away. I went back upstairs and there were small bleachers where all these characters were sitting. They were very interested in this development. Someone was searching this guy's apartment (which happened to be in my building ;) ) and they were bringing out a bunch of sharp object weapons. What this tells me, is that there is (or was) a part of me that just wants to cause destruction and hurt myself. This has certainly been true in my life many times. I hope that guy gets over it!

I need to think more about what you say about it being a heart issue. .. and seeing and being seen. At the end of above mentioned relationship, we saw each other in *secret*. There were many instances in that deal where I was "invisible". I woke up to it and didn't like it one bit. I have a habit of looking at and thinking "Topaz" whenever I want to avoid a cop. (The stripes on the road are close enough. And you would be surprised how many businesses use that color.) Topaz is supposed to make you invisible. I thought I might have carried it too far and really become invisible!

I'm partially descendant from a Choctaw tribe. They are matriarchal even though the King is a man. The women choose him. Circles are integral to ceremony. This is OT, but during an annual feast, they have the men enter the circle and cut themselves so they bleed onto the ground. Women don't have to do this because we naturally shed blood. Learning of this opened up a lot of avenues. For me, it explained why in the story of Jesus, he had to shed blood. Blood has always been sacred.

I'm going to try Bluestar's suggestion too, to desensitize the foundational thinking.

[Dover]

16. Male energies in your dreams

Interesting male figures in your dreams. One trying to fix the situation but not having the right tools (so was in a position to do more harm than good), one was apathetic (no interest in even participating, let alone helping to fix things) and the second dream where the male was breaking rather than fixing the situation. And a woman cop led him off or got him under control.
And all the drama attracted a crowd...so the destructive act got lots of attention. All of them pretty young males too, so not mature males.
Don't know how these male images might tie into your family/upbringing experience of men and/or the animus within.

In the first dream it seems that the young woman (with white hair and granny gown) might be either representative of wisdom or might be the classic child who is forced to be an adult before her time, due to the chaos surrounding her. Perhaps a part of you that you turned to in order to survive.

[Why Syzygy]

17. Interesting ..

I hadn't considered the male energies. It drew a crowd, but the crowd were all the other voices. They belonged to me. They were very intrigued by his weapons. I didn't really want to look at them, but the group kept going on about it and telling me to look. They were on my side. I remember one male audience member. Strange I don't recall any women. Wow. This is going to open up a whole new wave in my dream analysis.

My animus within .. what do I do with him? This has to be a part of it. Isn't everything. That particular ex-bf, the apathetic one, in RL reminded me so much of my dad. It wasn't in style or belief system, though they are both spiritual. It was the way he cared for me. My dad, in reality, did have a basic apathy for anything that didn't involve him, including me. Although, if I really needed help, he came through for me. When ex-bf and I broke up, it was a loss of my animus. That has never happened. It has been awful getting through it and reclaiming MY animus. Or perhaps redefining. Can we even do that? Change an archetype?

A lot to think about, and since I'm heading to bed, dream about.

edit ps: In the first house dream, I associated the radio playing a station I didn't like, the trouble I was having, and the fact that it got changed back with the real struggle I have in making changes and solving problems.

I didn't mention this before, but I wanted the apathetic character to fix the station for me. I knew he could, but he wouldn't even get up and come look at it. My attempt failed. There was someone there who sabotaged me. I don't like that one very much. There are definitely RL parallels there. I could be describing my parents to a T. hmmmmmmm

[Stevepol]

4. I don't think the gratitude would cause the car accident.

Maybe there was some other emotion involved as you say, something you're not totally conscious of.

Maybe you were too identified with the car (too attached to it as an extension of yourself) or something like that. Only you could say, but I don't see how the gratitude could cause that. Maybe you could have been equally grateful for the accident and the possibilities for an even better car in the future and other special learnings coming out of the experience. In many cases what seems to be a misfortune turns out in the end to have been providential almost.

Definitely something to think about tho. I've tried to analyze why I so often sabotage myself when I have experiences similar to the one you describe, but I've never asstd it with gratitude.

[Why Syzygy]

5. About the car ..

It was a small used car my mother bought from a friend of hers shortly after my dad died because that's what he wanted her to do. I had left my car in Vegas with the ex when I came back to Texas, and my dad loaned me their 2nd car, which I drove for quite some time. It was very old and had some issues that were becoming more troublesome. It didn't have heat for one thing, and he died on the coldest day of the year and I had a 120 mile round trip to make. I'll never forget that! Any attachment I had to the car was because it was my dad's wish and it was paid for and it was mine. As for something better ... not exactly. The car I got was newer, and I loved it too, but I couldn't get a car for the cash the insurance company gave me. I guess I could have if I knew anything about cars. I could find only one I could afford, and that meant car payments. So, that wasn't necessarily a good thing at all. Increase my expenses. The rest of the medical portion paid for a trip back to Vegas to pick up my things I had left in storage. So, there's one good to come from it. Of course, if I hadn't been making car payments all those months, I wouldn't have needed any extra money to take a trip.

There may have been things about the first car I didn't know about. I did know about a broken tie arm, discovered by my mechanic friend, which was super dangerous. So, yeah, there's that. Something much worse could have been in the pipeline.

I was not grateful for the accident. I had another one two months before to the day. It was another case of someone hitting me from the right side. My mechanic was able to put it back together the first time, but not after the second one.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[Stevepol]

18. Sounds like it may just be in the stars (you're at the right forum)

I've had times when I couldn't win for losing, one misery piled on top of another. I'm not much into astrology though I believe in its principles. There have to be influences due to the changing positions of the stars and planets, their alignments and so on.

When I go thru a period like that I think of a Sufi story I read once about a guy who was given a kingship somewhere but lost it thru the invasion of a foreign country. He traveled with great difficulty for a year to get to his original benefactor to see if he cd get another kingship somewhere. When he got an audience with the man, the man told him he would give him 50 sheep and a parcel of land in his kingdom to see what he could do with it. Well, the sheep got some sort of plague or were eaten by wolves or stumbled into pits or whatnot and after a year he'd lost all his sheep, so he returned to his benefactor and begged for something more. The benefactor gave him 25 sheep and the same land. The same thing happened. 25 dead sheep. He returned again. The benefactor gave him 10 sheep and the same land.

But lo and behold this time the sheep began to multiply. No diseases, no problems with wolves. After a time he had a thriving farm. He returned to the benefactor to tell of his good fortune and perhaps seek something better. The benefactor told him he would give him the kingship of Seville and make sure he was able to get there in style. The man was aghast. "But why didn't you give me this when I first came before you?" he asked.

"Well, let me put it this way," the benefactor replied. "If I'd given you this kingship when you first came before me, there wouldn't be one brick on top of another in Seville today."

Even Christ went thru a time when all his disciples deserted him except for the select few. "Are you going to leave me too?" he asked them.

Good luck.

[Bluestar]

9. I'm wondering if thinking about how you were grateful for the

little car despite its shortcomings, triggered some kind of unconscious fear response like "What if I didn't have this car?" which in turn could have been "don't have an accident, don't have an accident".

I had something similar happen to me when I was dating my husband and his grandmother insisted that I drive her car. I was nineteen years old and very nervous about driving the car and I remember saying to myself "don't have an accident". Within a few hours of an eight-hour road trip, that is exactly what happened to me, I had an accident!

Years later I learned that when we say something like this, our subconscious only hears the word "accident", but not the other qualifying words. Our subconscious hears "accident, accident, accident" and so we draw an accident to us.

If your mother used to teach you that anything you were grateful for wouldn't last, you probably hold this unconscious belief and it will filter your thoughts anytime you experience gratitude. You seem to be very aware of where this core belief comes from, so it can be easy to release. One way is to repeat it over and over to yourself (Anything I am grateful for won't last"), observing how the statement makes you feel each time you say it. At first it will feel awful, it might even get more intensely awful as you repeat it, but eventually the energy will start to dissipate and then you won't react emotionally at all when you say it. That's when you've cleared it!

Love and light to you,
Bluestar

[Why Syzygy]

10. That would do it ..

but I don't think I felt that way. And I had just had an accident two months prior. I really didn't expect another one so soon.

There was some controversy about the car. Even though my dad wanted me to have it, my mother was taking all the credit. I stayed at her house three months that summer and there was an ugly situation when I moved out. (The entire three months was ugly.) She told the "people" there when I was leaving that she had bought me that car. I was still grateful for it, even though she tried to use it for her manipulations. I guess I'm really still grateful I had it. (Itsjustme reminded me of Pollyanna) It was because of the car that I met the guy who was my mechanic, and he remains a very good friend. That was also the car that had the radio/CD break down just as I was heading out to start the new life, and I learned to live in silence with my thoughts.

I'll try your suggestion because I really feel that may be the case. And I need a healthy dose of "nothing stays the same". Presently I am grateful every day for the place I live, and my kitty, etc. This has been bugging me because I don't want to lose my kitty! I know I will move, probably very soon. When I start repeating that phrase, I feel myself tearing up, filling up with emotion. Maybe need to cry it out.

Sometimes I feel that I am a pessimistic person. But, I know that at least in my family, I am the one who always says, everything is going to be fine. It will work out! I used to have my ex-dh tell me "everything is going to be okay". Now I do that for myself.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[Bluestar]

13. That belief is just energy, nothing more

If you think of the belief as just energy and you have complete power over that energy, it will dissipate really fast. The reason the energy "sticks" to you is because you are resisting feeling it. If you determine to feel it for a short time, this takes away the resistance and the bad energy will float away.

Sending you good energy and positive thoughts.

[LiberalEsto]

20. Full Moon Lists

During full moons, some Wiccans and Pagans make lists of the things they are thankful for.

I've been doing this for years -- not every month, but at least a few times a year. When your mind starts ranging over the large and small things that are good in your life, there is power in the action of writing them down.

Over the years you can see how your lists expand. Instead of feeling needy, the state of mind changes to serenity and sometimes awe at all the good things one has.

[Justpat]

21. When you start to try to engage in the discipline of a grateful heart,

it takes a while for your feelings to catch up to your conscious decision to be grateful.

After a negative youth it is hard to understand the blessings of the change in attitude
necessary to become truly grateful. But it is important to understand that when we are
grateful we draw more positive experiences to us.

When I was a kid, I was raised in probably the most negative, abusive situation that
you could imagine. The three faces of Eve movie is not far off the mark with regard to
my childhood. So after a life of despair and self pity, when someone told me I needed to
become grateful in order for my life to change, I want to tell you that I went a little
berserk. I couldn't understand the concept. But I have always had a rather strange and
mystical relationship to bookstores. Whenever I am bashing my head up against life and
getting only a bloody head, if I go to a bookstore, in a short period of time a book
will literally fall out of the shelf at me feet. (I am not making this up)

One day after I had made a conscious decision to get better and try to understand the
gratitude thing, I went to the bookstore and a little book of poetry fell out of the
shelf right in front of me. It was titled: Hallelujah Anyway. It was really, really
crappy poetry, but the title is something I cut off the book, framed and still have to
this day. I realized that I had to BE grateful, not think about it, not pretend, not
make a list of thing halfheartedly, but just to be grateful that I had another chance today
and that I can change if I want to.

I hope my bookstore story doesn't leave you all thinking I am a crazy old broad.
You should have seen me before the universe devised the hilarious stunt of flinging
books at me in order to get me to understand things. Yikes. It was not a pretty sight.


All the best.. OB

[Why Syzygy]

23. That's neat .

but I don't have books jumping at me. There have been instances of Providence, of course.

You repeat what I've been told, but still no concrete evidence. IF it is true that one needs to become grateful for their life to change, why? Or How does it change? If I'm going to have accidents whether or not I am grateful for my car, what difference does it make? HOW does it improve your life? Is there any proof that it draws more positive experiences toward us?

I'm not planning to give up gratitude. As mentioned, it does feel good. I'm just trying to understand it.

[Justpat]

25. Gratitude is a more positive mind set.

And it draws more positive experience. Maybe in your case just not right away since you
were a neophyte to the gratitude experience?

[Why Syzygy]

26. You may be right.

I'll give it some thought. Thank you for your thoughts, OB.

[Justpat]

27. Thanks for the mind stretching exercise.

:hi:

All the best...

[I Have A Dream]

28. I was told by the channelled being (Samuel) with whom I work that gratitude...

really helps change to occur by giving closure to situations. For positive things, it draws even more of the same to us. He said that it was also important to somehow feel gratitude for what seem to be "bad" things that happen to us. The gratitude may simply be an appreciation of how our life is when that particular thing isn't happening. He said that it is much easier to manifest things into our lives when we practice this type of gratitude. Closure's required to make room for the new to come into our lives.

What he said reminds me of what Caroline Myss said in the "Energy Anatomy" CDs to which I recently listened. She said that anytime we harbor grudges or focus on negative things that happen to us, we have an energetic connection to these things which takes a certain percentage of our energy. If we have enough of these, we have very little energy with which to conduct our present-day life. She didn't say it, but connecting that with what Samuel said, gratitude might help to close that energy leak by plugging these energy leaks/cutting these energy cords.

[Fire Walk With Me]

32. Thank you for your post, and I hope that the universe is taking great care of you!

[Justpat]

34. Thanks.

I'm light years away from where I was 27 years ago.

[Justpat]

22. Here is what I was trying to say but in much shorter, coherent form.

From Daphne Rose Kingma: "In relation to others, gratitude is good manners. In relation to
ourselves, it is a habit of the heart and a spiritual discipline."

[BanzaiBonnie]

29. I think you answered you own question

I read the first two paragraphs of your post and then walked away to pick up my breakfast. As I was leaving the room I was understanding that you have a program running that is giving you this "set up".


When I got back I read the rest about what your mother said. Things that make you go hmmmm. Yes, you decided that this is a rule. That movie had a great impact on you. Movies have symbolic power and then your mother reinforced the program.


You are a powerful being. Now that you recognize what happened and how you made up a rule for your life, you can dump that program and make a new rule for yourself. PM me if you want more info.

[NMDemDist2]

30. I find I have better results when I feel gratitude *TO* instead of gratitude *for*

I give gratitude *to* Spirit for my life and it's blessings

I run into trouble when I have gratitude *for* things. things seem to be taken away when they become important in and of themselves.

Hope that makes sense.....

[Stevepol]

33. Very good distinction. Thanks.

[Why Syzygy]

38. hmmmm

That seems like a very sensible attitude on first glance. Let's examine.

Gratitude *to*, I assume you mean Spirit or HP or what or whomever one looks to for all things.
Gratitude *to* then would be more accurately described as *worship*. I've done some looking around at old psalms, praises, etc. Sometimes the attributes of the *to* are worshiped and praised (gratitude *to*), but most times, the *to* is praised for what the *to* does or provides, as in material things, peace, safety, the natural wonders. Those are *for*(s).

So, while certainly worship (*to*) has a place in spirituality, I was speaking of the gratitude (*for*).
*To* may lead to *for*, but pure gratitude *to*, again, is *worship*.

[NMDemDist2]

39. not exactly

the definition(s) of gratitude are as follows

1. Appreciative of benefits received; thankful. my idea of "to" which means I'm grateful for the bounty of everything in my life and recognizing it all comes from the 'source'

or

3. Affording pleasure or comfort; agreeable. the idea of *for* being happy for things in my life that may or may not be recognized from stemming from the Universal source

worship on the other hand

noun
1. the activity of worshipping
2. a feeling of profound love and admiration

verb
1. love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an idol; "Many teenagers idolized the Beatles"
2. show devotion to (a deity); "Many Hindus worship Shiva"
3. attend religious services; "They worship in the traditional manner"

it's not worship to recognize that all things come from the Universal Source and to send thanks

about the only time I come close to 'worship' is when I'm overawed by a sunset or a storm cloud

IMHE anytime I get too attached to some 'thing' in my life, and forget where it came from, it gets taken away. anything that diverts me from my spiritual practice tends to get moved out of my life.
YMMV

[Why Syzygy]

40. I know what you're saying about attachments..

But, the intention of my OP is about gratitude specifically, and with real gratitude, attachment is not an issue.

It isn't worship to recognize that all THINGS come from Source.
Again, there are THINGS *for*s.

It may be an un-splittable hair.

I love that sense of soaring spirit I get from the sunsets and clouds, mountains, moss growing on a rock, a field of butterflys ...

How much does it differ from a feeling of graciousness (gratitude) for someTHING that has come to me from a series of events and people's actions, both tragic (my dad's death in this case .. there's always something) and uplifting, to a confluence point of me having a THING which serves me well in the services I have been called to do?

I'm asking myself as well. It's a good question.
I am very glad you brought this point into the conversation.

[conscious evolution]

35. Speaking of gratitude

Thanks PT!!

[truedelphi]

36. But really, VotesSM, you were NOT "IN" the car when it was totalled.

So as you are posting how gratitude seemed to backfire, you were looking at a half full glass and saying it was half empty.

A very human thing to do.

[Why Syzygy]

37. I was IN the car.

My sternum was broken. I was banged up for several months. Is that what you meant?

[truedelphi]

42. Oh my GAWD! You have me on your side.

Hope you are better now.

[rumpel]

43. what I found is that it takes quite a bit of practice

to really and truly feel gratitude...

as a kid, I used to kind of play a game, if I want something to be, I just say to myself it will not happen, and then I tell myself, watch how it will turn out to be the opposite of what I say. And most of the time it did. In those days, it was not about gratitude but rather a guessing game.

Most of the time, we try to force ourselves to "ignore" or "justify" rather than "accept" a "bad" or even good situation we are in. I mean, the part of truly accepting whatever comes our way with gratitude is not an easy or normal thing to do. It has a lot to do with letting go.

Sometimes people do things for you spontaneously at the most crucial times which bring tears to your eyes, and you physically feel the knots out of deep pure gratitude..remember those moments...that, I think is gratitude from the soul level.

Anything else is perhaps forced. Practice being in the now...as it comes, without expectations good or bad, and most importantly let go of the underlying (or unconscious) fear of a negative potential.
Did, for example, worry creep in, such as; "what if you did not have your car to drive to the interview, but thank universe, you did have the car", or something along those lines?

I know, it is very difficult, I am struggling with it myself, every day.

[Callie McAllie]

44. Americans are so spoiled...

We have everything and we should be darned grateful for it! When I think of what people in other parts of the world have to put up with every day just to survive, gratitude is not strong enough to express how lucky I feel to have all that I have. I have a job, food, a roof over my head, a loving family, friends, my health. Maybe none of it's perfect, but it's not like I have to walk three miles with malaria and a baby on my back past guerilla thugs just to get a bag of rice or a pot of dirty water.

I think about the a negative situation I was in a few years back, when I was probably feeling not so grateful for the trend in my life. I took a step back and made some changes, got away from the extremely toxic person who was tainting my usually grateful self, and ended up getting exactly the thing I needed most - time - with the person I am most grateful to have in my life - my son!

If you want to see a movie that really will make you feel grateful just to be alive, just to have even one person in your life you can love or call friend, see Martian Child with John Cusack. It just came out on video. I wept through the whole movie. And felt grateful (and fragile and emotionally vulnerable) the whole rest of the day.

:cry: :hug: :grouphug: :pals: :headbang: :applause: :rofl:

[I Have A Dream]

45. Yes, it's very easy for us to take our gifts for granted in the US.

It's weird; sometimes I stand in my shower and feel such amazing gratitude for the almost unlimited supply of hot water coming out of the shower head because I realize that there are very few of us in this world who have such luxuries. Rather than feel guilty for being one of the lucky ones, I instead try to help the world to change so that such things are available to everyone on this beautiful planet.

:)

[Callie McAllie]

46. And that is real enlightenment, I think

when you move past gratitude (or guilt) and do something to share what you have with the rest of the world. I admire people like that more than I can say. It's an area where I fall short, I fear.

[Why Syzygy]

48. I almost always

feel a sense of gratitude for showers too. It isn't that I compare myself to others. There have been a couple of periods in my own life when I didn't have access to warm showers.

And, yes. I agree with your approach. Start by envisioning all the peoples with plenty. And act.
Thank you.

[Callie McAllie]

47. Of course, my real name is Pollyanna!

Polly Anne, actually. I am totally serious. Darn my mother for giving me a name that prompts me to be so upbeat all the time. :-)