About Scorpius

[Dover]

Yes, I spelled it right.


I was reading Skater's wonderful Hellenic Astrology website (which you will be richly rewarded for visiting - check out her latest discussion of this February's lunar eclipse) and came upon this quote:

Ophiuchus is the actual constellation which occupies the 7th through the 30th degrees of “Scorpio” in the Tropical Zodiac. Scorpius and Ophiuchus were combined into a single “sign” -Scorpio. This is why there are 12 signs in the Tropical Zodiac, the Zodiac most Western Astrologers are familiar with, rather than the 13 constellations of the Siderial Zodiac. Individuals whom are born during the first six or seven days of the traditional dates for “Scorpio” actually have their Sun in Scorpius; this means that most people who are “Scorpios” according to Western Astrology actually have their Sun in Ophiuchus, as the sun is in this constellation for 23 or 24 days of the “sign”.

http://demosathene.blogspot.com/search?q=ophiuchus

The Real Solar Zodiac Sun Signs:

Sun Sign Meaning Dates
01: Pisces the Fishes 12 Mar to 18 Apr
02: Aries the Ram 19 Apr to 13 May
03: Taurus the Bull 14 May to 19 Jun
04: Gemini the Twins 20 Jun to 20 Jul
05: Cancer the Crab 21 Jul to 9 Aug
06: Leo the Lion 10 Aug to 15 Sep
07: Virgo the Maiden 16 Sep to 30 Oct
08: Libra the Scales 31 Oct to 22 Nov
09: Scorpius the Scorpion 23 Nov to 29 Nov
10: Ophiuchus the Serpent Bearer 30 Nov to 17 Dec
11 Sagittarius the Archer 18 Dec to 18 Jan
12: Capricornus the Sea Goat 19 Jan to 15 Feb
13: Aquarius the Water Carrier 16 Feb to 11 Mar
* The Non-Zodiac Constellations

© Dr Shepherd Simpson, Astrological Historian
Historical Astrology


I and others have posted on this subject before but seeing how some of you mentioned your Scorpio Sun issues with February (Aquarius), I thought it might be timely to bring this subject up again.

From Wikipedia:..................................................................................


There exist a number of theories as to whom the figure represents.

The most recent interpretation is that the figure represents the healer Asclepius, who learned the secrets of keeping death at bay after observing one serpent bringing another healing herbs. To prevent the entire human race from becoming immortal under Asclepius' care, Zeus killed him with a bolt of lightning, but later placed his image in the heavens to honor his good works. It has also been noted that the constellation Ophiuchus is in close proximity in the sky to that of Sagittarius, which has at times been believed to represent Chiron (the mentor of Asclepius and many other Greek demigods), though Chiron was originally associated with the constellation Centaurus.

(Also of note: The great temples which were healing centers attributed to Asclepius/Asklepios were said to keep non-venomous snakes within their sanctuaries. And the figure of the demigod Asclepius is usually depicted with a single snake entwined on his knobby wooden staff which became the symbol for the physician's staff)
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/library/wdc-lib/historical/artifacts/antiqua/icons.cfm

The serpents of Greece were extensively used in Asclepian worship. Some were often placed in cradles with newborn babies. At Epidaurus, the center of the Asclepian cult, a large snake nursery was maintained which supplied not only its own needs but that of neighboring temples as well. The staff of Asclepias, which can be traced back to the magic wand of the early Egyptians and Moses, depicts a single serpent twined around it. Up until recent times, this was the symbol of the medical profession. The caduceus, which is a winged staff with two serpents entwined is a further variation of the staff of Asclepias and the symbol of Hermes-Mercury, the god of trade and the messenger of the gods. This same symbol was used by the Romans and is worn by medical personnel of the United States Army Medical Corps to indicate noncombat status in war.

http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/herbhist.html

Another possibility is that the figure represents the Trojan priest Laocoön, who was killed by a pair of sea serpents sent by the gods after he warned the Trojans not to accept the Trojan Horse. This event was also memorialized by the sculptors Agesander, Athenodoros, and Polydorus in the famous marble sculpture Laocoön and his Sons, which stands in the Vatican Museums.

A third possibility is Apollo wrestling with the Python to take control of the oracle at Delphi.

There is also the story of Phorbas, a Thessalonikan who rescued the people of the island of Rhodes from a plague of serpents and was granted a place in the sky in honor of this deed.

Yet another possibility is the biblical story of Adam, who is wrestling with the serpent on a more basic level metaphorically, as even the Hebrew Qaballa has a number of man which basically embodies the meaning of the man wrestling with the serpent as half of his natural pre-disposition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus



And another good site:

http://www.geocities.com/astrologyconstellations/ophiuchus.htm


Ophiuchus is represented as the Serpent Bearer overlapping the Scorpion and next to the Centaur, Sagittarius, at the top of this medieval astrology disk.

[Callie McAllie]

1. Can this be right? It turns everything I know inside out...

I am not scorpio, but libra? My son is not scorpio, but virgo? My dad is not aquarius, but capricorn? My mother is not stubborn ram but slippery fish? my negotiator brother is not negotiator sagittarius, but ophiochus? And my husband is not comfort-seeking taurus, but stubborn aries? (Okay, that could be true.)

:crazy:

I don't even know how to proceed with this information.

[Delphinus]

2. Dr. Turi

has been using the astrology of Nostradamus, which is similar to this - basically, by the MONTH only, not by the date. That means, according to his way, that I'm a Gemini, not a Cancer.

[Dover]

3. Well, it's probably good to turn things on their head every now and then,

lest we become too dogmatic and stuck in our boxes. As you might expect, it's a controversial issue for astrologers (just one of MANY controversies), and there are many thoughtful perspectives on the different systems.

My own thoughts, though I'm certainly no expert or astro-historian, is that during the rationalist movement which among other things introduced a more dualistic perspective and nourished the growing objectification of experience, astrology at some point (for various reasons not the least of which was convenience) broke its bond with the heavens and shifted from a Sun-centered perspective to that of an Earth-centered or geocentric one.

The precession of the equinoxes, a phenomenon discovered c. 130 BC by Hipparchus and known to Ptolemy, results in a shift between the two systems of about one degree every 70 years.

The vernal equinox lay near the beginning of the Aries constellation around 500 BC, consistent with a Babylonian origin of the system.

While classical tropical astrology is based on the orientation of the Earth relative to the Sun and planets of the solar system, sidereal astrology deals with the position of the Earth relative to both of these as well as the stars of the celestial sphere. The actual positions of certain fixed stars as well as their constellations is an additional consideration in the horoscope. (Over very long astronomical time scales, these fixed stars are of course themselves far from stationary.)

Some sidereal astrologers denounce tropical astrologers for failing to relate to the "actual heavens," seeing in this a fundamental degeneration of the subject (Kenneth Bowser, The Traditional Astrologer magazine, (Ascella), Issue 14, May 1997, pp.23-27 <1>).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_astrology

And for our Western world it has remained that way for some time, although as we have opened up to Eastern influences Vedic astrology, which is based on a Sidereal system, as well as other small groups of astrologers interested in recovering the ancient sidereal system, began to shift our modern understanding yet again in the other direction. I've said before as regards accuracy vs. collective belief, that it really depends on what 'reality' one lives in, and the consciousness (or lack thereof) driving that reality more than it is a matter of any one system being more accurate than another...or whatever else the argument. So until we are prepared to fully reconnect with the heavens, and a Sun rather than Earth-centered view of reality, the reality of the Tropical zodiac will live on and reflect back to us its portrait of us through geocentric eyes. Of course the whole issue is more complex than that, so I'm posting the links on Sidereal Astrology if you care to look more deeply into this matter. And I'm sure the other astrologers have some wisdom and their own perspective to contribute to this issue as well.

Many Sidereal Astrologers look upon the Tropical system as a regressive geocentric viewpoint...as useless as the flat earth theory...though, as has been stated, if one goes back beyond the rationalist period, we find that the sun-centered Sidereal view is rooted in the more ancient form of astrology.

Here's a rather strongly biased explanation in favor of Sidereal Astrology (though this group may be growing, it's still dwarfed by the Tropical astrology group):


First, we must realize that the wisdom of the true astrology of the ancients, as with other esoteric (Gnostic) wisdom, was transferred (taken) from Babylon, Caldia, and Egypt, and then it was eventually bastardized into a confused menagerie. This seems to have started with the dominating influence of Alexander the Great, king of Macedonia (336 to 323 B.C.), who catalyzed an amalgamation of Egyptian, Babylonian, and Greco-Roman thought into a new cultural expression in the 4th century B.C.; and later by Ptolemy.

Subduing Egypt during his conquerings and explorations, Alexander proclaimed himself Pharaoh in 332 B.C. while placating native priests at Memphis. He founded Alexandria, which was to become a primary intellectual center, and which was primarily Greek and Jewish. Here, miss-understood Egyptian mysteries and Greek philosophies merged into the "Mysteries of Serapis." This was the cultural emergence of esoteric teachings prominent throughout Alexandria's golden age. (Mysteries simply means esoteric teachings about life, not unfathomable or secret.) Also a center for Jewish learning, the Great Temple of Serapis is believed to be where the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew into Greek. Alexander's dominating influence in coastal Egypt and his further conquest of Baylon along with much of Asia Minor laid the foundations for the various religious factions of the Greco-Roman world. (Alexander attempted to create a master race through a genetic fusion of Macedonian men with Persian women--just one example of this megalomaniac's brutal conquests.)

Beginning with the death of Alexander in 323 B.C. and continuing through around 31 B.C., the Hellenistic Period gave birth to a diversity of esoteric philosophies and occult practices, all derived from the Egyptian and Babylonian mysteries. The cultural peak of this period, from 280 B.C. to 160 B.C., produced Euclid, Hipparchus, Eratosthenes, Dionysius and many other creative thinkers, who all expounded upon the cultural influence of Ancient Egypt. However, although this period carried forth some of the ancient esoteric teachings in a new intellectual language, it also produced a highly intellectualized amalgamate of confused ideas. The Hellenists bastardized Egypt's already cryptic and esoteric language into near total confusion because the majority of the Hellenistic culture did not have the perceptual awareness to comprehend matters of the soul, nor had they the capacity to intellectually comprehend Egypt's mythical picture language. Instead of grasping the language (astronomical mythical images as well as Egyptian hieroglyphics) from a soul perspective and realizing the transcendent wisdom of the evolutionary journey of the soul, the Greco-Romans attempted to translate this picture language from the perspective of the limited personality. This reduced Ancient Egypt's esoteric wisdom into a non-sensible confusion of men worshipping a pantheon of gods and stars. The dispersion of this confusion from Alexandria into Eastern Europe through the centuries ahead led to confused occult practices and perverted systems of belief that ran rampant throughout Eastern Europe at the time. The Roman Empire, Christianity and Byzantium, and their various sects--all derivations of the esoteric wisdom of Ancient Egypt--were the eventual result of this confused cultural fusion that originated in and migrated from Alexandria.

Prior to the early few centuries of the first millennia, planetary measurement was always referenced to the fixed stars (sidereal) as was the astrology of the ancients (Babylonia, etc). Astronomy and astrology were always one and the same until the Greco-Roman church-state astronomers began to record planetary ephemerides referenced to the moving vernal point rather than to the fixed stars, but ignoring that the vernal point moved with precessional, and while maintaining that all other heavenly bodies rotated around the Earth--a statement certainly affirming true egoic consciousness. (This was due in particular to Claudius Ptolemaeus (c. 90 - c. 168 AD) who was employed by the Greco-Roman controlling faction. Ptolemaeus was a mathematician, not a true astronomer. Some assert he never even looked into the heavens as an astronomer would look (Allen).) To say anything other than Earth was the center was heresy, so only those willing to sell out to the manipulative ploys of the church-state, and perpetuate the asserted geocentric dogma of western Christendom, stayed on the pay-role and kept their heads (actually, they were burned at the stake!). Here was planted the bastardization of true soul level astronomical astrology, and here began the Hellenistic, Ptolemaic, tropical astrology in an age of suppression, and which is still in vogue today.

This manipulation and bastardization of the true astrological artscience into tropical astrology also affirmed that people had a finite life at the end of which they would either be saved or punished depending if they followed the dictums of the controlling political-religious faction, thus squelching any desire for individuals to spiritually aspire and awaken to the greater truth that they were durative, continually evolving souls; parts of, not separate from a greater unified intelligence. The true and greater art-sciences including astronomical astrology, Pythagorean sacred geometry, harmonic math, and other such art-sciences, were forced underground until the later time of Nicolaus Copernicus in the 1500’s who finally triumphed in eradicating the perpetuated dogma that Earth was the center around which all other heavenly bodies rotated--the egoic head-trip of the Greco-Roman church-state. From here, others would follow: Tycho Brahe (1546-1601), Johann Bayer, and later yet, Johann Kepler (December 27, 1571 - November 15, 1630), who, in the early 1600’s, brought forth the truth of the occulted astronomical and mathematical wisdom based in harmonic resonance that had been long lost. Kepler's most famous book is "Harmonia Mundi" (Harmony of the Worlds). Kepler was a mathematician, astronomer AND astrologer (responsible for revealing the affect of many astrological aspects / harmonics). Kepler is sometimes referred to as "the first theoretical astrophysicist."

It is interesting to note that many of the religions of the world, as well as the perpetuation of "tropical astrology" still in vogue today are based on the confused mentalities common to the early first millennia. It is also interesting to consider that the perpetual use of tropical astrology today may be an energetic and harmonic affirmation that perpetuates a chiasm in time that continues to widen at the rate of Earth's precession, one keeping the masses drifting in time-confusion rather than living in the truth that the true sidereal zodiak reveals. Perhaps Pluto's transit through sidereal Sag starting in 2006 will help open the way for the truth of the heavens to eventually shine.

http://www.lunarplanner.com/siderealastrology.html

Other links:

http://www.westernsiderealastrology.com/


Rob Hand on the History of the Zodiac:
http://www.zodiacal.com/articles/hand/history.htm


Books:

The Origin of the Zodiac
http://books.google.com/books?id=qGJcsrkPTToC&dq=sidereal+astrology&pg=PP1&ots=-DeRib7gNz&source=citation&sig=w4Y-OcNVab8LThLXTfua1mJPDs4&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=Sidereal+astrology&btnG=Google+Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1&cad=bottom-3results


Astrology of the Seers: A Guide to Vedic/Hindu Astrology
By Dr. David Frawley

http://books.google.com/books?id=uAQZGITZhYQC&dq=sidereal+astrology&pg=PP1&ots=dvQ9GTOcWM&source=citation&sig=gcAs6_OY32pwe_FkcdXzJWBTYZ4&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=Sidereal+astrology&btnG=Google+Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=bottom-3results

[Callie McAllie]

5. See how much I have evolved over the past year?

[Dover]

4. Adding another Robert Hand article about Siderial vs.Tropical based on historical research.

http://cura.free.fr/quinq/01hand.html