So why don't I trust either Clinton or Obama?

[Fire Walk With Me]

Obama seems ambitious and to me, appears to have a hidden agenda, and Clinton certainly is in bed with the Bush family and their international workings...does this strike a chord in anyone, or do you have impressions that counter mine? I'm hoping for insight into the candidates please, and I'm hoping that I'm wrong.

[PinkTiger]

1. Here's my 2 cents

Obama: Yes, he has an agenda, and it isn't the same agenda I have. However, I think it is an honorable agenda. He feels a strong call to be there for Black America, and others he sees as disenfranchised. He isn't all that fond of women's issues; in fact, I feel he thinks feminism is an 'also ran' issue that he cares little about. He is a power broker, meaning he will get in bed with anyone who will give him power to seek his aims. However, he is not all that tried. He is an untempered steel, much like a SC justice who gets the job and then turns on his grantors. He is likely to turn on many things; and I think the health care issue, unfortunately, will be the first casualty. He is not committed to it, and frankly, will put it on the back burner to get other things he wants. Another problem with Obama is, he will be easily distracted and will not be able to work well with Congress. And the American people will turn Congress back to the Republicans under his presidency, should he be elected. I don't see us getting out of Iraq if he is elected.

Clinton: She has overcome most of her negatives; She is trying her best to reach out to people. In with the Bushes? No way. She absolutely despises them and everything about them. I don't know how anyone could honestly think that the Clintons are "in there" with the Bushes. Just because Bill Clinton went on a trip or two with the first George? Former presidents are supposed to be friendly with each other. It doesn't mean much. Hillary Clinton would be a very good president, and in her first term would change things for all of us, for the better. We will get universal healthcare, we will get out of Iraq. And we will gain the knowledge that a general election president can be a woman.

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. Hillary, if not then "in bed" with BushCo, has her own corporate ties

local and international, and that bothers me. It's not just that Presidents are supposed to be friendly; how the @(#*$&#($ could anyone bear to spend a minute next to anyone in the Bush family, after all of this? It is a dire insult to the nearly 4,000 dead US soldiers, the how many dead Iraqis, the stolen Treasury, the nearly destroyed Constitution, they were wiretapping when they got into office and have been after the Iraqi oil for decades...

It's too vastly offensive to even consider, if not to another President merely upon the Principles, then to the American public. That he has no outrage is ludicrous. Wouldn't you say WTF? given the chance?

I don't see anything particular happening with either of them in office, aside from what I glean about them personally. I think that you're probably dead on with Obama regarding not working well with others and going with his ambition. I'm not comfortable with that part of him, and if he has ties with anyone we wouldn't want him to have... It's again the lesser of two evils...sigh...


Thanks to you and to Tumbulu for the replies so far.

[saracat]

5. I think you are spot on about both. BTW, Hillary has never even been invited to the "Bush Compound"

The Bushes, Barbara in particular, loathe her.

[Tumbulu]

2. Neither of them is progressive enough,

and both are quite corporate.

But, I think either one of them will be so much better than Bush has been or McCain would be. The relief will be unbelievable great for all of us. Both of them are really articulate, intelligent and strong people. What a change that will be!

[SeattleGirl]

4. That's how I feel too.

Bush has done so much harm to this country, and to the world. Neither Clinton or Obama were my first choice, but I think that either one of them can help this country start to heal.

[saracat]

6. You know, I am at the point, except for my disgust at the rampant sexism, I no longer care

who is president. I think I am gonna just give up on this. I don't really think either is suited for the job.I think Hillary is more qualified and she is a known quantity but it looks like Obama will get it and I am almost caring less whether he or Mccain win. I think I am just disgusted by this whole primary and the stupidity of it all. Time for a rest.

[mother earth]

8. Don't lose heart, Saracat. I fully understand how you feel and

we are going to get what we are going to get is how I've been looking at it. I can't wrap my heart around either of them, but I do feel safer about Clinton, only because we know Bill and times have been a whole lot better. Either would be better than McCain who will undoubtedly take us to the gates of hell just to chase that bin laden ghost.

I really hope in my heart that both candidates are going to take the high road and we'll have a unity ticket, and I'm further hoping for Edwards, Kucinich and Biden to be part of that dream team. High hopes, I know, but that's what I wrap my heart around these days. If John Edwards is part of the team, I will know in my heart that all is not lost.

Just offering you my thoughts and hugs, many of us have been feeling a great sense of emptiness since JE left the race, we are absolutely in good company. :pals:

[saracat]

38. Thank you.Hugs to you as well. You are so right . W will get what we get.

:hug:

[japple]

9. I think you're right about neither being progressive. Talk

about change! We need radical change and neither of these candidates will provide that. But I guess we will probably have to settle for a gradual change.

[Celebration]

7. ambition

Anyone running for president is ambitious, possibly to the point of being obnoxious. And the most ambitious ones are probably the most successful at it, meaning that the final choices in the general election will be the most ambitious.

I guess I don't particularly trust Clinton or Obama either--Clinton because she is not owning up to her vote for the war, and because she has run her campaign poorly, and Obama because he is an unknown quantity.

Hillary also still has these fourth chakra issues................

[Lilith Velkor]

16. Good point on ambition

Could you elaborate on the fourth chakra issues? I know that's the heart chakra, but it seems like her husband is the one with the issues.

[Celebration]

17. I don't know why..................

But I have tested her by distance and it seems her fourth chakra is blocked, and stays blocked. Obama doesn't have any issues like that.

Her husband Bill has two chakras blocked--fourth and fifth.

[PinkTiger]

18. That is just something that strikes me as totally unfair, I'm sorry.

Chakra. Blocked. What the hell is that? What are you talking about and how do you know? Tell me about my chakras.
What evidence do you have that the chakras are blocked?
I think you need to either give us more information, or not post about it.
I've been around new age ideas all my life, but I know nothing about blocked chakras. It must be an esoteric thing.
Or maybe.... I don't know. Don't want to be too critical, but I have to say, this is strange.

[I Have A Dream]

19. I've heard of blocked chakras before.

Here's a Google search on blocked chakras:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22blocked+chakras%22&btnG=Google+Search

[PinkTiger]

24. OK, THANKS.

The chakra thing looks pretty interesting. I obviously have some blocked chakras. LOL
I promise to work on this and in the meantime, you all be nice to me even if I am a bitch. Please. <VBG>

[I Have A Dream]

29. I'm sure that I have blocked chakras too, PinkTiger.

Sometimes, it feels as though they're all blocked, in fact.

We're all in this together! :)

[Lilith Velkor]

20. It could be due to a physical problem

Maybe there's something wrong with the ol' ticker, which would come across in a reading as a blocked chakra, meaning that it's not vibrating as strongly as the other ones. A blocked fourth is very common in men, and becoming more common among women of late as we are all expected to repress our emotions if we want to be perceived as "professional."

I've found distance reading to be pretty unreliable, however. YMMV and all that.

[Celebration]

35. I would agree with most of that

Almost anyone with heart problems would have a blocked fourth chakra. If it is caught early enough, just unblocking the chakra can make a huge difference.

The biggest problem with checking to see if distance treatment is accurate is that I can't actually see these people in person to test them. So, definitely my testing is unverified!

My distance testing on people I know is 100% accurate, though, as I can test my daughter across town, and then verify it later. I have also tested it with other people in my city. I do have some evidence that this works with strangers that I test by distance, but that evidence does not include verifying it in person. It would be fun to try that, but I doubt if Hillary would allow that.

[Why Syzygy]

33. Itsjustme has posted at length

about this and her methods, etc. in the past. She has also reported that she hesitates to post this information because she is met with this type of reaction. The same reason you say you hesitate to post your visions. Funny that.

[Bluestar]

23. Everyone has blocked chakras at one time or another

We store all of our past life issues in our chakras, so it makes sense that certain chakras can be blocked. I work with people on spiritual issues and EVERYONE in the past 15 years that I have worked with has had a blocked chakra or two.

We store the issues that we have come here to work on in this lifetime in our chakras and those issues present themselves in our lives as our chakras open up with progressive age. I have found that chakras open and close throughout the day, depending on the stress level that person encounters. After awhile, if stresses are especially heavy, a chakra may close completely to try and protect the physical body. I have found that issues can be stored in any of the chakras. In other words, heart chakra issues are not necessarily all "heart" related issues. We are very clever creators and we can store any issue in the chakra of our choice--we all do it differently.

This may not be the conventional thinking, but it is what my guides have shared with me. I don't think that Hillary's blocked 4th chakra should dissuade anyone from voting for her.

[Celebration]

26. I completely agree with that

I don't think it should keep people from voting for her either. You are right that tons of people have problems with chakras--most of my family did before I became aware of the issue.

But--people can get in a pretty bad cycle, sometimes, with all this--the emotional problem feeds the physical problem which in turn feeds the emotional issue and so on. I've seen really serious physical problems get better when the chakras are "fixed", but sometimes they are just blocked and have no symptoms at all.

At the least, Clinton would probably have more energy for her exhausting schedule if she attended to this.

[I Have A Dream]

30. If she does have a blocked 4th chakra, it would certainly be understandable...

given the abuse that she's been through at the hands of the right and what she's gone through in her marriage.

[Delphinus]

10. I wish I could explain my inner qualms

about both of them - most of the replies here I can resonate with to a degree but there's still something inside of me I need to identify.

[I Have A Dream]

11. I feel the same way, Delphinus.

:(

[Flying Dream Blues]

12. Me, too. I just can't get over my misgivings about both of them to decide which to go with.

My misgivings about Hillary are mostly on the surface, but even though I want to get caught up in the Obama charisma and hope (and have at moments) there is something inside of me that just gives me pause. I wish I knew what it was. I will vote in the primary next week but I never expected to feel this conflicted.

[Lilith Velkor]

15. I think what it is

is that he's too good to be true. I've been around the proverbial block enough times to know that anything presented by the mass media as the best thing since the invention of pizza is, at best, deeply flawed and at worst, lethal.

I dislike HRC because her policies are rancidly centrist, but the one thing she has going for her is that the rabid right's worst nightmare is a President Clinton with unitary executive powers, and I think we owe it to them to make it come true.

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. I too don't trust either Clinton or Obama

Clinton has a longer "track record." That means she has been tested more than Obama. It also means that she has made well documented choices that conflict with my own preferences and values. My issues with Clinton are quite specific.

Obama is largely untested IMHO. There is something about Obama that I cannot label but intuitively distrust. I also find him arrogant and something less than mannerly. That may not be critical to job performance but it is relevant. FWIW, I didn't even think John Kerry was arrogant although he was widely accused of the offense.

I will say that I find the widespread groundswell of Obama's support reminiscent of the Jimmy Carter campaign. Now, I happen to like Jimmy and I think he is a great ex-President. Had I been old enough to vote when he was a candidate I would have voted for him. Unfortunately, try as he might, he was not an effective chief executive. Lots of reasons for that - not all of which reflect on him or his abilities.

I cannot imagine not voting for the Dem nominee. But it will be a half-hearted nose holding vote. No enthusiasm here over the remaining contenders.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. "a half-hearted nose holding vote."

Said better than I have ever managed to! :7

[eilen]

21. For me now, it is not so much a matter of trust.

When I watched Obama on tv the other night I felt like I should be watching closely and remember it because the moments of watching him are growing short--a sense of historical significance. I felt sadness. I have already gotten a message that Hillary won't win. I am worried for Sen. and Mrs. Obama.


I don't know whether trust in a politician is authentic, I would call it wistful faith.
I don't wish to discuss the pros and cons of each candidate here. This is a rancor-free zone. I put good vibes out to everyone from this vantage because we are all on this journey together!

[PinkTiger]

22. Let me say something else here. The problem is our expectations.

Remember when we were kids, and it was Christmas time? (Or a similar gifting situation if you didn't celebrate Christmas). Anyway, we put so much expectation in it, and then when it came, we were very disappointed in what we got.
I think my problem this election cycle is, we have waited so long for it to be OUR TIME, and now nothing seems right.
We want a savior of sorts. That is why Obama appeals to many. But I think most of us are too jaded and experienced to be swayed by rhetoric. This morning on the radio I heard a conservative pundit say that he felt sorry for Hillary. "She's been trying to have a job interview, and Obama is on a date," he said.
That is kind of the way I feel. I wish we could all be happy. Right now I'm not very.

[Fire Walk With Me]

37. That sounds so right.

I recently compared Obama and Clinton to Jooky Cola (in GDP of all places):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lfOgYIOho44

The sad fact is that they began stealing elections in 2000, and things have only become more complicated since then. The 2006 Congress showed us that voting truly doesn't matter, but many still cling to the fallacy because the truth is too ugly to admit.

I don't know how this will end, but as a teacher said, this is a struggle between those who want to run the world and those who want to live in it. These two competing directions must come to some sort of resolution. Obviously, Bush is going around the world passing out nuclear weapons in order to bring the most harrowing path to fruition, and we want that sort of thing to stop. I don't think that enough of it will stop, with a Democratic President, to satisfy our need for peace. I don't know why.

Keep sending the highest light to the houses of government and lawmaking. They can use all of the unclogging that they can get. Enough light will effortlessly open the way to peace.

[Mnemosyne]

25. Instinct.

:hi:

[lildreamer316]

27. Best answer.

Could not agree more.

[Mnemosyne]

34. I've always regretted it when I haven't trusted my instincts,

and I'm so tired of holding my nose to vote.

:hi:

[Fire Walk With Me]

36. :)

[Mnemosyne]

44. :)

:hi:

[LWolf]

28. I never have.

Either one of them.

I call it intuition.

:hi:

[Celebration]

31. Anyone know their blood types?

Just kidding..............

[I Have A Dream]

32. Ooooo...

:spank:

:rofl:

[LaurenG]

39. I don't have a severe problem with either one

I do have a preference for one over the other. I distrust one because of some of their past actions on critical issues. I do think that either one will make HISTORY and I am hopeful that the best and highest good is worked out in the voting booth.

No one can take the place of our most favorite but the two we have are who we will choose to either support, boycott or vote against.

I will proudly vote in the Ohio primary on March 4th. I will not hold my nose and I will do the right thing by my own standards.

May we all be blessed as we go through the coming months and years. May we all learn to accept whoever wins and take the best of what they offer and support them in moving the country out of the quicksand and ascend from the downward spiral that has been our reality for the last 7 years.


:hug: and :grouphug:

[Celebration]

40. Glass half full--great way to look at it!

I applaud them both for going through this process, too. I know they both have a ton of personal ambition, but I truly feel that both of them want to do what is best for this country. I don't have the same feeling about our current leader.

Thanks for the reminder.

[LaurenG]

41. Thanks for your reply. We'll get through this, one way or another

and hopefully we can all get back to having a good life again soon. :7

[I Have A Dream]

43. I'm really glad to hear you say this, OB, because I really trust your...

intuition and judgment.

Hey, my Pennsylvania vote may actually make a difference after all. Who'da thunk it? :)

[Stevepol]

42. Either one will be a great relief and a hundred times better than any Repub.

I see them as both capable of doing a great job.

I like Obama because he seems to represent a lot of energy and optimism and youth. That can't be bad. I perceive him as not being very deep or thoughtful about issues, but maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's really a good point for him. Maybe it means that once he's elected, if he should get elected, he will be open to advisors who will counsel him to move toward John Edwards' (or Kucinich's) health care proposals. He has good instincts I think.

Hillary I don't like as much because of her stands on the Iraq War and her refusal for so long to admit that it was a mistake, plus her shepherding of some issues that sound like she's just trying to appeal to what she perceives as the average Republican voter or something, to triangulate or manipulate, etc. etc. Still, she's competent without question and I believe (and hope) would get us out of Iraq.

As far as I know, neither of them has a handle on the voting machine issue and the need to fix an election system that may already be beyond repair. In fact, as I said before the 04 election, the Dem candidate will definitely get more votes. It's just a question of whether or not he or she will get enough of a margin of victory to overcome the predictable manipulation of the result. I suspect the tilt from the machines and other techniques that have been perfected by now (since the Dems have refused to do anything about them or even make a big issue of them) will be 5% or more this time. It will take a truly massive turnout and effort to overcome this kind of tilt.

I'll be hopin and prayin, but it just seems that the Dems have a suicidal impulse that they just can't shake.

[Dover]

45. I will preface my statement by saying that I don't feel any investment

in these candidates or in the status quo in general. As I've said numerous times, our entire system is under pressure for enormous change which I feel must, and will, come from the People ultimately.
It would be nice to have some benign and visionary leadership to help guide our ship through the storms ahead, but we must choose the reality we want to live and then build it and find our own initiative and power within. Hopefully we've grown beyond the paternalism of our system.

But looking at this from afar, I am a little fascinated that the Kennedys have backed Obama. That family, for all their wealth, have always to my knowledge, supported and represented the people. In fact they've given their lives for it. They have been such a threat to the establishment elite that they have, as a family, suffered great loss. Of course they aren't perfect and have their problems like everyone. But I find myself looking twice at Obama if he has attracted their support. It is them, rather than him, that I find somewhat attractive.

OTOH, I don't know that either he or Hillary would be considerably different, though it seems one would be getting two Clintons for the price of one if she was elected. That might be viewed as double the trouble or double the strength. And do they intend to go after those who unseated Bill and make the criminal element pay? Would either Obama or Hillary take any legal action against the Bushco machine? There is just so much on this nation's plate to recover and then to rebuild that any 'president' will have their hands very full. And the government system is so sluggish and overburdened that it might take some significant changes just to deal with things at a pace that they need to happen.

The corporations have become so wealthy and powerful and have so undermined our governmental system that it may be wishful thinking that it can be salvaged. And then one must ask, "should it be?".
Kind of like a scenario of the government being knocked down by a devastating hurricane (or something more sinister). Should it be rebuilt exactly as it was or should the "opportunity" be seized for a complete review and then redefining of what should take its place? Maybe we could televise a Government Makeover show! And Hillary can be Queen For A Day!

Seriously though, a big problem with the government being in such a weakened and devastated place is that it and we are susceptible to vultures and hawks who have their own agendas and corrupt motives, who see something else entirely in this 'opportunity'. And that is, I believe, what the corporations have in mind, though they might try to give it a much more benign face than another Bushco. Kind of like playing good cop/bad cop with the populace. This is where all the emotionalism about the candidates really disturbs me. It seems evidence of way too much investment, dependency and attachment to these mere mortals who have at least some questionable motives and agendas. What is the feeling behind that emotionalism?

This is where the people need to step up, and become vigilant rather than fall again into having 'daddy' or 'mommy' in charge to kiss it and make it all better. Perhaps we need a country wide discussion about how we envision the 'new reality' so we can all begin to find a place in it.
Or maybe it will spontaneously come into being as we follow our own inner voices and establish our individual piece regardless of outer events. If we are not secure enough within ourselves to welcome serious and broad change rather than clinging to the known and old reality, then we are going to have a lot of dead weight. The stronger we become through an inner vigilance to be true to ourselves with the courage to push beyond our fears, the more painless and rejuvenating this process will be.

[demnan]

46. Because both have been dishonest

Obama has overrepresented his opposition to the war. Clinton has someone overrepresented her experience. I wish we had taken another path.

[ConcernedCanuk]

47. "Trust" - a hard emotion to apply to ANY politician. So I take trust out of the equation mostly.

.
.
.

Trust

Obama is NEW - Clinton's have a lot of history, that some may wish to forget.

Bill didn't lose his presidency because of an illicit relationship. He lost the presidency because he LIED about it under oath.

United States desperately needs something NEW in their governance.

Obama may not be it, but he's the best choice available at the moment.

My Canuk's 2 pennies worth.