Proof that For Sure We're Going to Hell in a Handbasket

[NJCher]

What a woman told me today had me laughing and wondering what the world is coming to.

Now that the semester has ended, I had a little time to get my hair cut in a new style for summer. The stylist was a middle-aged woman who did a terrific job--in part because she was a good listener and pinned down what I really wanted. She had me show her exactly what I wanted by using a mirror and by telling her how long or short I wanted my hair at the base, the sides, etc.

Anyway, during the course of all this she remarked that she, too, was a teacher. I asked where and she said at a theological seminary. I asked what kinds of students wanted to be ministers--were they young people, established adults, what? She responded they were all adults.

But then she went on to tell me they don't want to do anything. They don't want to write their papers and they don't want to do their research at the library. They didn't have particularly good attitudes about coming to class.



I must admit that I almost burst out laughing because the image of delinquent ministers entered my head. I was envisioning people of the cloth with dunce caps on and having to sit in the corner for not coming to class prepared.

Having found this assessment of her students rather surprising, I told her so. After all, if they "heard the call," I asked, wouldn't they be motivated to read, study, and do their papers? She shrugged it off, saying they just mostly seemed to want their "piece of paper" and to do as little as possible for it.

--------

Now doesn't that beat all? It's one thing for some college kid to show up for class without his term paper but when ministers just want their "piece of paper..."



Cher

[BlueIris]

1. It is depressing, isn't it?

When I went to college, I considered it an opportunity for education. One of like, three undergrads I knew who was there for that reason.

My aunties getting a divinities degree right now, and thankfully, she seems to want to be a minister for more reasons that needing greater credentialization.

[Cleita]

2. Being able to officiate at weddings and funerals is a big

business. That's what they want the piece of paper for. Few actually want to work from the pulpit.

[NJCher]

3. ah

That's it. I couldn't figure out what the story was.



Cher

[southerncrone]

4. My dear, NJCher, don't you realize that "the call" is

about $. You cannot imagine how much $ "ministers" & "preachers" make. Plus they get sweet tax breaks to boot.

Back in 1992, my husband worked with a deacon at a Baptist church in our community. One day at work, the guy was really down & hubby asked what was bothering him. He told my husband that their "pastor" wanted a raise, or he was going to leave for a "better" church. The deacon was upset because they didn't know how this church was going to raise the extra $. They were paying him $85,000, but he wanted $125,000! Keep in mind this was in 1992 in a rural Southern town, not an affluent area. That was in addition to the very nice house they also provided him + insurance for his family. The church had around 100 members, so not a very large church.

Since I have been on some trips that included "preacher's wives". In my experiences, these women spent $ like they had a bottomless pit, or a printing press.

At my 25 yr. class reunion, I discovered that the biggest con-man in our class was now the "minister" of one of the largest Baptist churches in Atlanta.

Need I mention: Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggerty, the Haggard guy, etc.

They don't care about saving souls; they care about dollars in their pockets.

Religion--the greatest scam.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I am an ordained minister

in the Universal Worship Service. I took my training under a senior teacher, and still use it to this day as a spiritual practice. I've officiated at weddings, house blessings, funerals, and even cleansed a house of evil influences. Didn't take a dime for any of it. But then I see my ministry as a spiritual practice, and here's how it works:

In the Universal Worship, we honor the world's spiritual traditions and do readings from different holy texts, all based upon a theme. But the key is when I get up and read, say, the Bagava Gita, I find within myself that spirit of Krishna--or that of a devout Hindu--so that the reading comes not from me, but rather through me, if that makes sense. It is really neat to prepare for Universal Worship, because it gives the opportunity to get in touch with that part of the Being that is within all of us, and is all.

And yes, I did study in the year's classes I took. Wrote papers, did practices, and research. After all, the Gathas of Zarathustra doesn't have a concordance :)

[Celebration]

6. Very cool

Have you officiated at any weddings?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Yes

I've helped at a couple, and went solo with one wedding, where the couple wrote their own vows.

[southerncrone]

11. You seem to more of a spiritual mentor than most of the "main stream ministers" in the US

You are in it for the right reason---Service to others. Not service to your bank account.

Blessed be.:hug:

[NJCher]

8. ministers and greed

southerncrone, I had no idea ministers (especially in small southern towns) made that kind of money! I was very surprised to read your anecdote about the 125k. And then to add on all the tax breaks organized religion gets!!!

:grr:

Now I did know and was quite amused by the stories of Tammy Faye and Jim, Swaggard (sp?), et al. But I thought that sort of greed was found mostly in the televangelism communities.

I think I am a bit naive about this, having only been exposed to organized religion when I was a child. I rejected it at the early age of 13 and haven't had any associations with it since then. Back at that time, ministers hardly made anything and the ones I knew seemed motivated by "the word," as they called it.

This thread has been quite an education for me.

Signed sincerely,

Pollyanna (AKA Cher)



Cher

[Why Syzygy]

9. My dad was a minister.

And my granddad (mom's dad) and both my aunt's husbands were ministers also. All pretty much Southern Baptist. His best friend was a Chaplain in the Navy. My son even considered going that route. That scared me more than the fighter pilot he selected instead. Really.

There are some drawbacks to always living in the church's house. And trying to obey everyone in the church and make sure they ALWAYS get their own way ... (I could go on...) None of these men had a lot of money. My dad was very frugal, but took decent care of us. He didn't do it for the money, I assure you. It was a way of life for them.

Spirituality is just as susceptible to con artists and questionable characters as any other field.

Some of it might be also, that some of the students aren't fully invested in the belief system being taught and plan to veer from that particular message when they deliver it. If that makes sense. I would love to do theological studies but I know my belief system wouldn't change dramatically.

Not saying there aren't questionable motives within many churches. There are. My best friend's son was a youth minister for about five years. He ended up in a huge church in Plano, TX and made the six figure incomes. He quit. He couldn't stand the money bickering and Baptist style back-stabbing.

[crikkett]

10. 'Baptist style back-stabbing'

ouch!