Violence in current-day media

[kentauros]

I'm not speaking of all the violence we been subjected to over the years and been practically deadened to, but the new, over-the-top, ultra-realistic, ultra-violent kind that pervades todays movies and increasingly supposed "documentaries" (think Discovery/History channels.) Even as the Kubrick movie "A Clockwork Orange" coined the term "ultra-violence", that brutal one-on-one violence can't hold a candle to recent movies that I likely will never see, thanks to CGI and other special effects that put you right in the disaster. I got to thinking about this topic with the recent release of "Watchmen" and originally thought I might want to see it. Then I heard about not only the in-person, up-close-and-personal style of violence and total disregard for human life, but the spoilers about just how much of humanity is laid to waste. And people are excited about seeing that?!

I also had to look up a print-ad for a new Nicolas Cage movie coming out called Knowing. It's yet another end of the world disaster movie, likely soon to be followed this summer by 2012. I made the mistake of watching some subway-train disaster clip from Knowing that was brutally violent and realistic in the depiction of the deaths, even as I was practically screaming at the monitor about the idea that realistic physics would have totally negated that scene ;) Of course, now I need to find that copy of either Koyaanisqatsi or Powaqqatsi and calm down some :D

I see a trend here, not only for the years leading up to the real 2012 but continuing for several years after. I figure that there's a few years "overlap" due to not everyone being truly on the same page for what is the right year of all the "predictions." What I am most curious about, however, is if we may see a toning down of the violence after the Big Event. Do you think people will be so sick of the disaster movies and shows that they will stop giving them their time and money? Or is it still the case that this spate of ultra-violence will simply deaden a new generation and killing off the entire planet won't be enough to satisfy their thirst for (imaginary) blood?

I did comment on that one Watchmen thread about the idea that our society actually needs ultra-violence in order to even think deep thoughts. The OP understood my point of view; I received no comments from anyone else. Not that I needed them, but was surprised that no one else shared the view about needing a movie like that to ponder societal problems. 2001: A Space Odyssey made me think more than any movie I can recall at the moment, and only four humans die in it, three of whom are in suspended animation and the fourth in a spacesuit. You never see blood, broken bones or anything, yet it's still exceptionally realistic and chilling. That was 41 years ago. An impressive story and an impressive movie. It has "staying power." I do not see any of these current overly-violent movies as having more staying power than a year or two, no matter what their message.

Are there any other similar movies or documentaries that can make us think about deep subjects that don't rely on violence to get the point across? I would like to discuss this as I feel it's important for those of us that are quite sensitive to this kind of "storytelling".

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I've got a great one

It's called "Mind Walk" and no one gets killed--but the subject matter is quite deep. Let's put it this way--I've shown it to spiritual leaders and they really really liked it. A little group of spiritual folks that are now discussing The Four Agreements are going to watch "Mind Walk" soon and discuss it.

I've never liked violent movies, and refused to go see "A Clockwork Orange". I was required to see a violent movie for a college class, and spent the entire time with my eyes shut and ears plugged by my fingers. For me, at least, the violence shown disturbs the core of my being--personally, I don't think there is that much of a broad chasm between thought and what appears to us on the physical plane.

[kentauros]

6. A Clockwork Orange isn't for everyone

and it's been years since I've seen it. In a way, it's like two movies in one, with the second half having more to do with the main character's transformation away from violence, only to end up the victim of his former victims' revenge. It's an odd movie and an odd story even if the violence of it is important to the story. Still, I would not recommend it for the sensitive. I remember enough of it that I don't have to see it again for some time, if ever.

I think you have recommended Mind Walk before and maybe I'll just have to get Netflix afterall ;) The description of it reminded me of two movies by Wim Wenders, that is, Wings of Desire and Until the End of the World. The first is a talkative pondering of human life through the eyes of the ever-watchful angels that are the main characters, and the second one is literally an "end of the world" movie, but not in the way of any other movie before or since. It's basically about the invention of a device that will record your dreams and allow you to watch them again. That is the downfall of humanity because everyone gets addicted to watching their own dreams. Unfortunately, the movie is not available in the US and only in PAL format when you can find it, and it's three DVDs in length :o

But it's still a great story :)
Sam Neill is in it and provides the narration.

[MorningGlow]

2. Good question, Kentauros

I often wonder the same thing when I'm watching Heroes. The philosophical implications of that show are similar to the ones posited by superhero movies (as it's like a mini-superhero saga...without the costumes)--especially that of "the other" being a fellow human who is Not Like You (what to do with them? accept them or lock them up or eradicate all of them?) LOTS of big thoughts to chew on.

My least favorite character in Heroes is Sylar, the psychotic serial killer. Guess who's everybody else's FAVORITE? Yep. Most everyone who watches Heroes LOOOOOOVES Sylar. All the discussion forums about the show have zillions of messages that are a variation of "Get rid of any character you want, but not Sylar!! He's the BEST!"

And that sentiment turns my stomach. Do people really need the ultraviolent psycho front and center in every episode, wreaking his bloody mayhem every week, in order to enjoy the show? I know that I would enjoy it far more without him.

I don't know the answer, Kentauros, but I do hope that all of this ultraviolent entertainment will go the way of the dodo soon.

P.S.: I owe you a PM! :hi: Alas, I've only finished one article out of the three that I have coming due, although I'm half through with the second. Then I've got a stack of books to review... x(

[kentauros]

8. I've tried to watch Heroes, and Sylar was the reason I didn't bother

after the two full-episode tries I gave the show. I know plenty of people love the show, but the only character that seemed to have any redeeming qualities for me was the Japanese guy. Kind of hard to call a show "Heroes" when there's only one character of any good character ;)

As for so many loving Sylar, I don't understand that either. It makes you wonder about humanity as a whole, for you know that this show is likely as popular for those same reasons the world over. I've seen this sentimentality from all sorts of cultures and countries. It could also be that Hollywood has had a huge influence on the world-wide acceptance of film/TV violence. Although Japanese anime and manga are often brutally violent as well. A couple of favorites from that genre are quite violent, yet bring up deep concepts, too. Ghost in the Shell is one, and Akira the other. However, Akira is over-the-top in its violence. I am conflicted about liking it when I diss something like Watchmen. Perhaps because it's animation instead of realistic special effects. I can separate from it from reality better than for live-action.

At the same time, though, for animation, there's Grave of the Fireflies by Isao Takahata, Hayao Miyazaki's best friend for decades, and his animation quality and story-telling ability will make you forget you're watching a "cartoon" :) The one mark against it, though, is that it is probably the most depressing story ever made. I do recommend it, but be prepared to cry ;)

MG, don't worry about a PM if you have too much to do. Read my excerpt when you have the time, whenever that is. It's not like I'm waiting to publish it or anything ;)

[Kind of Blue]

11. Hi, Kentauros.

:hi: I recommend Grave of the Fireflies, too. It was indeed depressing and I cried like a big old baby.

[kentauros]

14. Hi KoB!

Actually, most of Miyazaki's and Takahata's movies get to me pretty strongly, though not quite as powerfully as "Grave of the Fireflies". But I love "My Neighbor Totoro" "Kiki's Delivery Service" "Princess Mononoke" "Spirited Away" "Only Yesterday" "Porco Rosso" and "Nausicaa". Of course, I haven't seen even a tiny fraction of what's available for anime, but Studio Ghibli usually produces the best there is for both art and story quality. All of these are wonderful stories, though there is still some violence. It all depends on the story, but I don't feel these two storytellers rely on it or put it in their stories just to have it. Unfortunately, that seems to be the only way Hollywood thinks anymore, or at least for those movies they want to make the most money from...

[Kind of Blue]

16. I think I've seen Princess Monoke

and definitely seen Spirited Away. Spirited Away I loved but it still gives me the creeps just thinking about it, especially that No Face spirit. Though I think that spirit is essentially okay, I nevertheless get the creepy crawlies. And I'm not sure I fully understand what the movie was trying to say.

Thanks for the other mentions although I've got to admit I'm always a little shaky when it comes to Japanese anime. They always leave me emotionally drained :rofl:, especially with the use of minimal violence.

Have you seen Paprika? I've got it on DVR and am afraid to watch it, though I know I will eventually.

[SheilaT]

3. I am constantly frustrated

at inaccurate depictions of many things in movies. All too often people are shown surviving crashes that would at the very least seriously injure them. No one can outrun an explosion. Fires don't wait for anyone to rescue someone or something else. And so on. We aren't allowed to use our imaginations ourselves. Too much graphic and incorrectly graphic violence occurs on screen.

Not to mention the general stupidity level of so many movies, especially those intended to be comedies. Sigh.

I think one essential problem is that those currently making movies grew up watching movies, and not reading a lot. And certainly not engaging in much intellectual speculation, discussion, reading, or thinking.

Anyway, the movie "Mindwalk" is an amazing philosophical venture. It's about three people spending some time at Mont St. Michel and discussing ideas.

Also, "My Dinner With Andre" is another movie that centers around the discussion of ideas.

[northernlights]

4. My dinner with Andre was absolutely brilliant

in its ability to conjure up images in our imaginations, while watching a little, rotund actor sitting at a table.

I still remember it, the feelings it evoked, decades later.

I hate violent movies and violent t.v. Never saw clockwork orange. Never saw natural born killers, and lost respect for whatsisname for it.

Thank you for the name of a movie to look for, though. Mindwalk...

[kentauros]

13. Gotta look for "My Dinner with Andre" now, too

because I love Wally Shawn's parts and movies (remember him in "The Princess Bride"? Inconstheivable! :P)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

5. I'm disgusted with violence in movies too.

Lots of movies are violent and have no plot. There is no human interaction to speak of.
I've already ranted about the latest Batman waste-of-film.


I don't think you need violence to think deep thoughts. I have seen war movies like "Schindler's List" and they do make you think about the Nazis, which has a deep moral component, but that is historical stuff and not fiction.

If you want to see a movie about a man of science and his problems with religion, get

THE KEEPER:THE LEGEND OF OMAR KHAYYAM.

It's about Omar Khayyam, mathematician, astronomer, scientist, and his friend Hassan who becomes a religious fanatic and started the Hashashin. It also has Khayyam's modern day descendants and their assimilation as Persians into America, specifically Houston. It was made by a Persian guy who came to Houston because the Shah was overthrown when he was a kid.

It came out in the summer of 2005, and was well received but didn't get a lot of screenings. It's one of the top five movies I have ever seen, I think.

I give it my highest recommendation.

It has brought home to me the depth of the Persian culture and how beautiful the people are.

Website:
www.greatomar.com


I've watched it about eight times and every time I find something new in it.

[Celebration]

10. That looks good

Thanks.

[Kind of Blue]

12. Yeah, that does sound like a fantastic movie.

[kentauros]

15. I know you've told me about this movie before

and I know I bookmarked it, and I know I should see it... but I haven't. Forgive me? ;)

Oh, I found that someone has somehow posted the entire copy of Koyaanisqatsi on YouTube if you click on the movie title there. If you've never heard of it, there is no plot, no actors or dialogues, just sight and sound. You'll have to determine if the underlying message resonates with you or not, but I'm sure it will :D

(There's a 15-second ad at the beginning for SG: Atlantis DVDs.)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

18. Hey I'm glad you remembered the movie!!

I saw Koyaanisqatsi when it came out back in the early 80s and it blew everyone's mind.

I should watch it again. Thanks for telling me about it on Youtube!!

[Celebration]

7. Clockwork Orange

Oh, my gosh, I really wanted to get up and leave that film. I remember this about it clearly--it ruined the song "Singing in the Rain" for me. I will never forgive it that.

I did manage to see one of those super violent films recently--

No Country for Old Men

Okay, it was horrific, but was a tremendous film. I guess if you are going to do a super violent film, it helps to do it brilliantly, like the Cohn brothers.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. I didn't like Clockwork Orange.

I thought the violence was stylised, like it was a ballet. Also, the violence against women was just an excuse to show breasts.

[Kind of Blue]

17. I really like Spanish films

like Pan's Labyrinth and The Devil's Backbone. Though they do have some violence in it, they're both set during the civil war and are both films of fantasy, the violence is used to heighten the awfulness that was happening in reality but doesn't take away from the messages in them.

I forgot to mention anime, How's Moving Castle in my last response. I really enjoyed that one, pure childhood fun!